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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Jyn Ryvia said:
?

Really?

Like, I don't want the rune/magic tech stuff to start up. but I can see how having the magic Engineer in the branch about working with runesmiths would lead to that direction.

its very 1 + 1 = Rune/magic stuff.
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Is Adela an expert enchanter?
Does she know how to make a Gyro? would the dwarves let her learn how to build a gyro?
What is she bringing to the plan we can't do better ourselves or through dwarven engineers/runesmiths?
 
Valmond said:
Is Adela an expert enchanter?
Does she know how to make a Gyro? would the dwarves let her learn how to build a gyro?
What is she bringing to the plan we can't do better ourselves or through dwarven engineers/runesmiths?
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.... hmmmmm

I think your doing this on purpose.

no, she is not going to solve the thing all herself, but having someone good at magic and engineering on board would be a bonus when getting everyone together.

I dont like the option of adding magi-tech stuff the job, but I'm not pretending that adding her would not be a good step in that direction if that is something you want.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
.... hmmmmm

I think your doing this on purpose.

no, she is not going to solve the thing all herself, but having someone good at magic and engineering on board would be a bonus when getting everyone together.

I dont like the option of adding magi-tech stuff the job, but I'm not pretending that adding her would not be a good step in that direction if that is something you want.
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No, i just do not agree with you.
 
I think perhaps the question we should be asking is less "what can Adela give to WEBMAT", and more "what can Adela gain from WEBMAT".
 
LadyLynn said:
I think perhaps the question we should be asking is less "what can Adela give to WEBMAT", and more "what can Adela gain from WEBMAT".
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Nope.

regardless of the threads instincts of duckling collecting.

We are actually a boss now, our job is looking for people that are useful for WEB-MAT over liking them.
Unless they are such a dick that it gets in the way of a project.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Nope.

regardless of the threads instincts of duckling collecting.

We are actually a boss now, our job is looking for people that are useful for WEB-MAT over liking them.
Unless they are such a dick that it gets in the way of a project.
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The problem is that if Adela gets nothing from WEB-MAT the attempted recruitment will be a failure, wasting an action. She's her own person, we can't just hit a button and guarantee she'll join even if she doesn't benefit from it.
 
Valmond said:
What is she bringing to the plan we can't do better ourselves or through dwarven engineers/runesmiths?
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Well, Mathilde can't cast Flashcook or Inextinguishable Flame, before we even get into any of the more weaponized stuff. The benefit of including a budding Aqshy-Engineering specialist is that you gain access to Aqshy-Engineering things. You're asking questions that seem like they should have very obvious answers.

Jyn Ryvia said:
Nope.

regardless of the threads instincts of duckling collecting.

We are actually a boss now, our job is looking for people that are useful for WEB-MAT over liking them.
Unless they are such a dick that it gets in the way of a project.
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BoneyM recently asked us this:
BoneyM said:
What are people imagining Adela doing as part of the branch that she's incapable of doing with her already existing affiliation with the Gunnery School?
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The subtext is: why should Adela want to join us? What can we offer her? And unless we come up with a good answer I have a suspicion that we won't do well in recruiting her.
 
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ReImagined said:
Well, Mathilde can't cast Flashcook or Inextinguishable Flame, before we even get into any of the more weaponized stuff. The benefit of including a budding Aqshy-Engineering specialist is that you gain access to Aqshy-Engineering things. You're asking questions that seem like they should have very obvious answers.
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Will she be able to enchant the boiler with those?
Because the main thing we need from a magister joining us to enchant a gyro is ability to enchant the gyro.
Though this is all something of a sidetrack, recruiting a magister into the branch just to enchant a gyro is kinda overkill.
 
Regarding the Gunnery School thing, there is literally an (ultra-vague) Celestial prophecy related to its importance.

DragonParadox said:
Well we read the Liber Mortis more than seven years ago and this is the first time we have ever seriously had shot at doing Tongs. I think there is a serious case for 'it will never be done otherwise' since you know it has been more than a third of the quest's total run time.
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How many actual "normal" Loremaster turns were that? 14? Less? And how many Loremaster turns was it since wasn't actively in danger? On top of that we've had some other form of high concept and involved side project for a lot of those turns. Not having gotten around to Tongs while still trying to do AV makes a lot of sense.

Anyway, I have already accepted that we'll be doing Tongs with a malus this turn. I'm not happy about it, but the top four plans are in favor of it and the first one that isn't (with 13 votes) isn't all that attractive to me anyway. But doing both that and AV/Divine experiments at the same turn with that malus goes too far IMO.
LadyLynn said:
I'm very much into trying Ulgu Tongs this turn, it's a topic that fascinates me and I don't expect the initial experiments to be particularly dangerous, which is why I'm not very concerned about the malus.

I'm not sure what the other research project you're referring to is. Windshrooms with Panoramia? That one was voted for because of AP efficiency reasons. Sword style training? I proposed that one because it seemed low-risk and like it would create some progress there even on a mediocre roll due to the malus. Divine AV? I proposed that one because I'm very interested in the divine and AV research trees, and it didn't seem overly risky.

I'd appreciate it if you were more careful with your words: the way you phrased that, it sounds like you're implying some kind of manipulative intent on those who're voting for different things than you, whether you intended to or not.
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I meant Divine AV. Both Tongs and Divine AV play around with potentially Dhar-inducing stuff, so my risk assessment is quite different from yours.

I am not saying that all those who vote in favor of it are manipulating or that those that first proposed it necessarily are either, but there have literally been people in this thread saying things like "I want to do Tongs/AV now to finally get it over with and if we fail we can finally put it to rest". So yes, the feeling of there being such an undertone is there for me.
 
Questions "what will Adela gain from WEBMAT" and "what will WEBMAT gain from Adela" are hard to answer because we have no idea what concrete benefits does WEBMAT have to offer, or what projects it pursues. There is only Mathilde and mission statement.

It is, at the moment, on paper only organization with no concrete resources or projects. So, it has nothing to offer and noone can offer anything to it. Therefore I feel like those questions are premature until the organization starts pursuing or offering something specific.
 
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At this moment WEBMAT exists largely to provide us resources/cover for the Waystone Project and give us research AP.
We have enough reasons to recruit Johann and Max and very little will change, but beyond that so much is in the air that trying to recruit anyone is kinda difficult.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Questions "what will Adela gain from WEBMAT" and "what will WEBMAT gain from Adela" are hard to answer because we have no idea what concrete benefits does WEBMAT have to offer, or what projects it pursues. There is only Mathilde and mission statement.

It is, at the moment, on paper only organization with no concrete resources or projects. So, it has nothing to offer and noone can offer anything to it. Therefore I feel like those questions are premature until the organization starts pursuing or offering something specific.
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I'm asking the question because people are talking about recruiting Adela, and as the person that's going to be writing that scene if it comes to pass, I feel like 'why' is an extremely relevant and not at all premature question for me to be asking.
 
[X]Plan: Jyn, AV and Spells and Little girl
-[X] MAX: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[X] JOHANN: Recruit him into the research branch of WEB-MAT
-[x] DUCK: Continue to work with Panoramia with implementing the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms as an aid to spellcasting.
-[X] EIC: Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets. (Talabecland Branch of the Cult of Kurnous)
-[X] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Suggest Eike spend a few weeks in Karak Eight Peaks, so she can grow familiar with Dwarves and their ways.
-[X] Attempt to finish off the Grey College spellbook by learning Shadow of Death, Cloak Activity, and the MAPP.
-[X] Seek any pre-Time of Woes information on the Lhune Depths that may have survived the Karak's fall
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Daemonic Concealment of Karak Vlag
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Build a basic tower of single-Wind environments for each of the 'missing' Winds: Light, Amber, Amethyst, and Gold: 300gc for four towers.
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

Approvaling this even with no tongs because it is the one plant not trying to recruit Horstmann.

[X] [KAU] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
 
ctulhuslp said:
Questions "what will Adela gain from WEBMAT" and "what will WEBMAT gain from Adela" are hard to answer because we have no idea what concrete benefits does WEBMAT have to offer, or what projects it pursues. There is only Mathilde and mission statement.
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And as Mathilde we know literally everything about it - we know the mission statement, and we know our own mind. If we can't come up with a pitch for Adela then no-one can.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well we did vote to send all the Skaven stuff away so that is one more strike against magi-tech, an opportunity willfully rejected already.
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Thats just like... your opinion man. Also, entirely irrelevant.

You asked what does Gunnery school have to offer. I said magitech, i feel that this is large enough contribution to warrant mention and something people might want to pursue. The fact we gave up Skaven artifacts, some of which we know for a fact are not replicable without warpstone, is entirely irrelevant for such possible future research.
 
Valmond said:
At this moment WEBMAT exists largely to provide us resources/cover for the Waystone Project and give us research AP.
We have enough reasons to recruit Johann and Max and very little will change, but beyond that so much is in the air that trying to recruit anyone is kinda difficult.
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That is not what the mission statement is, mission statement is "interdisciplinary research, between colleges and including practitioners of other traditions too".

BoneyM said:
I'm asking the question because people are talking about recruiting Adela, and as the person that's going to be writing that scene if it comes to pass, I feel like 'why' is an extremely relevant and not at all premature question for me to be asking.
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Well, we presumably are recruiting Johan and Max because they already worked with us on some projects, anyway. Seeing as this is not the case for Adela, I think(?), and there is no project we want her for in a backburner, there is no reason to aside from padding up number of people in WEBMAT to, well, expand the roster.

I guess plausible sales pitch is that it will give her free reign to include insights of non College magics into engineering, or learn from Eonir or whatnot how to do Bright magic better, or mix magic and engineering somehow. But given that the mission statement does not include magical/mundane collabiration efforts, she doesn't really fit, no.

pucflek said:
Thats just like... your opinion man. Also, entirely irrelevant.

You asked what does Gunnery school have to offer. I said magitech, i feel that this is large enough contribution to warrant mention and something people might want to pursue. The fact we gave up Skaven artifacts, some of which we know for a fact are not replicable without warpstone, is entirely irrelevant for such possible future research.
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Magitech is not a part of mission statement (not sure why, but it isn't), only intermagical stuff is.
 
What I think Adela will gain from WEBMAT is to be on the ground floor of a cutting edge research department that specialises in bringing different disciplines together. Whilst we have no concrete plans to integrate physical engineering into the branch and it's projects at this time, Adela's presence will open that door for future collaboration, bringing new and valuable viewpoints to the table. In return, she gains the connections and legitimacy of the branch supporting her projects, as well as the oversight and assistance of a powerful Lady Magister.

Putting down a definite goal at this point in time should be avoided—no "lets make better rockets" or "lets make cheaper gunpowder", if only because we don't know what feasible options will arise out of this collaboration. Instead we should focus on bringing in experts to explain to us what can be achieved through this collaboration and then we arrange the resources to make it happen.

I admit, if we still had the skaven stuff it would be a lot easier to make this pitch, because there are a lot of magic engineering research there that we could have pulled runesmiths onto.

I also don't know if that's a strong enough argument to pull her away from the gunnery school, which I imagine is offering similar opportunities.
 
Rafin said:
How many actual "normal" Loremaster turns were that? 14? Less? And how many Loremaster turns was it since wasn't actively in danger? On top of that we've had some other form of high concept and involved side project for a lot of those turns. Not having gotten around to Tongs while still trying to do AV makes a lot of sense.
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Exactly 14 and yes there was danger and yes there were other priorities, that will still be the case going forward. This is one of the best shots we will have simply because there is no overarching assignment and no danger. As seen from the 14 turns of no Tongs research that is not common
 
[X] Plan Efficiency, EIC, and Swords

Now is the time to do swording. Because there seems to be little downside to a bad roll here, given our previous rolls.
 
These are the things Adela invents.

BoneyM said:
With this justification for a sudden influx of Clan Skryre documents, you turn your attention to Karag Zilfin. Johann would be far less troubled by stronger defences than Adela would be, so Adela is the first to join you for the sorties - and, of course, a pair of Gotri's prototypes, both made possible by her ability to bring water to boiling at a touch. Their heaviest defences were pointed towards Eshin instead of Mors, so you varied your approaches between Karagril and the Citadel.

The first prototype is barely more than a bulbous metal canister with a short tube projecting from it and a pair of handholds. "The tricky part is the ammunition," Adela says, eager to show off what she's begun to learn and producing what looks like a stubby metal crossbow bolt, except the shaft is as thick as your arm and hollowed out at one end to fit snugly over the metal tube. "They've been working on shells that explode on impact, but so far it's too sensitive for gunpowder and crossbows don't supply enough propulsion. But a rapid boil should be the sweet spot."

You reserve judgement as you make your way towards the Clan Skryre defences, and as with many Skaven positions with the guards too confident (or sometimes, too terrified) to do their job, it's lit up enough to destroy the night vision of those supposed to be keeping lookout, who are in states of relaxation varying from leaning against pillars to napping with their heads on their paws. Adela stops a considerable distance away and you watch as she lines up the bolt with the tiny pool of light surrounded by darkness, and with a stir of Aqshy and an angry-sounding but surprisingly quiet hiss of steam, the projectile is fired. And three seconds later, the underground silence is shattered by an explosion as a cloud of shrapnel tears through the guards unfortunate enough to be closest to the explosion.

The guard post swarms with activity as those not currently on watch rush to investigate, and spears, swords and muskets are levelled against the darkness. But with eyes dazzled by the strange green glow Skryre lights produce, noses filled with the smell of blood and gunpowder, and ears still ringing from the explosion, none are willing to venture forth, though plenty yell at each other to do so. And Adela ignores it all, topping up the weapon from a waterskin and fitting a second bolt over the tube. You watch more thoughtfully as she fires the second time, noting no light and barely any noise, just a hiss and a puff of steam, invisible in the darkness.

The second explosion had the survivors rush out seeking their attacker, but none got far from the guard post, rushing about in the darkness and occasionally colliding with each other, resulting in a short, vicious brawl as they each assumed the other to be the attacker. Adela loads a third shot, but it proves unnecessary. One rat screams as another swings blindly at it with a sword, and a third yells 'Eshin' and fear floods through all of them. Almost as one they scatter in all directions, fleeing an enemy that isn't there.

Over the coming days you repeat your assaults, and they continue to unfold the same way. Skryre begins to reinforce their guard posts, which just adds more targets, and then introduce large warpstone-powered lighting mechanisms that fill the tunnels with an eerie green glow, but it doesn't outrange Adela's prototype and just gives her something else to shoot. This approach only comes to an end when they begin to light every inch of the tunnels their guard posts are facing with torches, and an experiment with Move proves that even a single one being knocked to the ground results in a volley of jezzail fire from snipers. You call the experiment a success there, and though there wasn't much loot to be found, you did get a few different sets of written communication.
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BoneyM said:
With the prototype having proven itself and Clan Skryre having developed countermeasures to how you were using it, you move on to the second prototype, which is based on a much more proven design you've heard of but not seen in person - the Drakegun, used by the Ironbreakers of Zhufbar to fire a pressurized stream of burning liquid. This variation might have been inspired by the defences of your penthouse, because instead of a combination of alchemy and precision engineering, this one uses simple plumbing and Adela's magic to fire a narrow jet of superheated steam. After the success of the previous prototype you give this one the benefit of the doubt, but considering the much smaller range of this one and the heightened alertness of the Skaven, you resolve to be significantly pickier about targets.

Several days pass with failed approaches, and Adela impresses you by not arguing with or complaining about you erring on the side of safety, and not long after you get the chance you were looking for as an unlit side-passage takes you within a stone's throw of a guard post. You take a moment to check for possible reinforcements, make sure that the sniper position behind the guard post didn't have an angle on you, and make sure your path of retreat was appropriate. You give Adela a tap on her shoulder, and she takes a deep breath, rolls her shoulders to rebalance the weight of the water tank strapped to her back, and levels something halfway between a trumpet and a rifle at the unsuspecting rats. Aqshy stirs, water hisses, and far from the silent firing of the previous prototype, this one immediately results in the mingling cacophony of the shriek of escaping steam and the screams of those exposed to it. You've seen a lot of death in battle, but it still takes some mental effort to close your ears to the screams, your nose to the smell of boiling flesh, and your heart to the new form of suffering you're helping to invent.

As Adela turns the weapon on the first Skaven to recover from surprise and charge at her, the limitations of the weapon immediately becomes clear, because the steam takes precious seconds to penetrate through fur to the flesh beneath. By the time that would-be attacker was incapacitated by agony, three more are closing. You reach out and grab Adela by a backpack, yanking her behind you and back into the narrow side-tunnel as Branulhune appears in your spare hand. The Skaven charge on regardless, only to be met by a low sweep that cleaves two of them in half at the waist. The third didn't quite manage to close the remaining distance before you had pulled back from the swing, and his momentum impales himself on the blade, screaming in pain and hatred as other Skaven close in, no doubt hoping to take advantage of your stuck weapon. Your revolver in your offhand accounts for two more, and an eager leap from another becomes doomed as Branulhune disappears from within the dying Skaven's chest and reappears in your hand in time to cleave it out of the air. You grimace as blood splatters against you, but the moment of hesitation that it gives you allows you to summon and shape Ulgu. Between one instant and the next, you go from merely intimidating to supernaturally terrifying to the remaining Skaven, an impression only reinforced as the shadow cast by the warpstone lights reaches out to latch onto the head of the nearest foe. The unfortunate Skaven thrashes in its grip, trying in vain to free itself from a force intangible to its claws but all too tangible to its face.

As the remaining Skaven flee screaming into the darkness, you reholster your revolver, dismiss Branulhune, and take a handkerchief from your pocket to wipe the blood from your face.

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The next few trials reinforce the impression the steam-thrower had made on you: fairly effective and quite terrifying, but between the range and the time it took to incapacitate, it couldn't be relied on as a front-line primary weapon. Adela manages to take out a patrol without your intervention by discarding the weapon and switching to fireballs for the last few, which pleases you and delights her, but apart from that each one requires your intervention to break the remaining Skaven, and once more she impresses you by holding her gripes until you're safely back behind Dwarven defences. Though the prototype didn't do quite as well with this second round, the loot was significantly better.
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Personally, I find her research interesting and would like to see more of her, but I'm not sure what we can offer to her. She is already cooperating with Gotri, so our dwarf connections are useless. Maybe once we do some windherding we could do something with that.
 
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley

[X] Plan Redshirt with Mushrooms

Right, time to vote for a plan as well. Quite comfortable when you're reasonably ok with any of the top 5 options winning (both top 3 plans, and top 2 KAU), even if there's preferences.
 
As some are saying, the social turns are going to gather quite a lot of attention. Seeing Dragomas fighting, going to Vlag, receiving headpats from best dwarf boss, seeing Kragg's reaction, talking to Cython about the origins of the world after Deathfang's story...

Yep, this is going to be contested as hell.
 
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