Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration

I still like the "natural philosophy and artefacts" focus of the prior one, but there's nothing in this that excludes that either.
 
This seems nice, but two questions I have. What exactly is being researched—unless the idea is just general research with but looking for other magic users to help.

Well, to start things off, we can research Waystones, Aetheric Vitae, and Windherding Enchantments, all of which involve multiple winds working together. Afterwards, I'm hopeful that we can attract other wizards with research they want the assistance of other winds with - with how the We and Skryre Reverse Engineering went, there's certainly precedent for it happening.

wasn't there that whole thing about working with other magic users under an Imperial organization being explicitly illegal

Working with the other Colleges is legal, and working with priests (including Runesmiths, Damsels, and Ice Witches) is legal.
 
[X] Plan: College of Collaboration, Public Library, Gyrocarriage v2
[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
 
Well-said. I'm expecting at first people might roll their eyes at our charter and be like "that's dumb, who does she think she's kidding." Then we drop the AV book and our Windherding paper on their heads and laugh all the way to the "significant alumni of" section of the yearbook.
Hell, the first bit of proof is what's already standing atop Karag Nar: The Eye of Gazul uses three different winds alongside an undeniably divine rune.

A grand landmark to base the branch college under :)

This seems nice, but two questions I have. What exactly is being researched—unless the idea is just general research with but looking for other magic users to help? Or something like that—and wasn't there that whole thing about working with other magic users under an Imperial organization being explicitly illegal? Am I somehow misunderstanding that this isn't basically stating our intent to break the Articles of Magic?

On 1, it's reasonably open - either studies on how to use multiple magics in collaborations, or studies in which you use multiple magics in collaboration.

On the second - it's only working with college mages and "divine miracle-workers", both of which are perfectly fine. Bretonnian Damsels are definitely priestesses and not witches, likewise for Kislevite Ice Witches.
 
Last edited:
I don't think we're going to struggle to find a worthwhile runesmith as a member, even if it's just one of Thorek's apprentices.
My worry is not so much about finding interested runesmith, but about the cult of Thungni deciding that it seems too close to colleges getting interested in runesmithing and not wanting to get involved in it.

And another question, what exact techniques would we be researching? We can after all involve divine spellcasters in our research even without having to specifically write it in the charter.

Or is it just basically research branch that tries to involve non-wizards as much as possible?

Edit: nevermind you have already answered my questions.
 
Last edited:
I strongly prefer the original charters that were proposed in the currently leading votes because they are more open to incorporating Duckling Club. Collaboration with new magical or divine traditions is nice, but under the current wording, mundane collaboration is excluded. Projects like Panoramia's ecosystem building with the halflings and Adela's prototype guns don't seem to fit with 'Colleges, divine magic users, and runesmiths,' and any College rework that doesn't have room for them is not one I will vote for.
 
Last edited:
And another question, what exact techniques would we be researching? We can after all involve divine spellcasters in our research even without having to specifically write it in the charter.
Well, there's windherding for spellcasting and there's windherding for enchantment. Both of them have huge depth. Then we add in things like AV, magic of unknown sources (and therefore where it's unknown what wind/divinity they're based in), some crazy future protagonist who's working on Theurgy in secret, etc.
I strongly prefer the original charters that were proposed in the currently leading votes because they are more open to incorporating Duckling Club. Collaboration with new magical or divine traditions is nice, but under the current wording, mundane collaboration is excluded. Projects like Panoramia's ecosystem building with the halflings and Adela's prototype guns with the engineers don't seem to fit with 'Colleges, divine magic users, and runesmiths ', and any College rework that doesn't have room for them is not one I will vote for.
The problem I have with the original charter is precisely what you seem to like about it, that it's an arbitrary collection of stuff that Mathilde or someone she's talked to recently happens to be interested in. I just don't see how that'll result in a successful branch college.

Imagine you're a journeyman, and you're trying to decide where to go. Your options are "The Grand College of Collegiate and Extracollegiate Collaboration" or "The Grand College of Random Stuff Mathilde (or her Friends) Found Interesting". Which do you think is more likely to be appealing?
 
Last edited:
Working with the other Colleges is legal, and working with priests (including Runesmiths, Damsels, and Ice Witches) is legal.
On the second - it's only working with college mages and "divine miracle-workers", both of which are perfectly fine. Bretonnian Damsels are definitely priestesses and not witches, likewise for Kislevite Ice Witches.
You sure? Because I very distinctly remember there being an entire issue with openly stating that we would work with them on research, and having to legal fiction our way through it. Like, it would be functionally the same as long as we didn't openly say we were asking them to help study magic, because priests aren't legally wizards and thus aren't allowed to study magic under an imperial aegis. What we could do was play "wink wink, nudge nudge" or have it be held under some other authority.

@BoneyM am I forgetting something that was said that makes this different? I don't actually mind it working, just trying to figure out why this is suddenly fine.
 
I strongly prefer the original charters that were proposed in the currently leading votes because they are more open to incorporating Duckling Club. Collaboration with new magical or divine traditions is nice, but under the current wording, mundane collaboration is excluded. Projects like Panoramia's ecosystem building with the halflings and Adela's prototype guns don't seem to fit with 'Colleges, divine magic users, and runesmiths,' and any College rework that doesn't have room for them is not one I will vote for.

Honestly, part of the reason I was willing to drop ecology in particular is that, well... it's an individual project. Panoramia doesn't actually want or need help from anyone with her big terraforming project right now, and if she ever did need help with it from Mathilde, then it would definitionally become a cross-college project. I wouldn't be that averse to making the wording a little broader to include non-magical collaboration between wizards and dwarves/other human universities, though.
 
You sure? Because I very distinctly remember there being an entire issue with openly stating that we would work with them on research, and having to legal fiction our way through it. Like, it would be functionally the same as long as we didn't openly say we were asking them to help study magic, because priests aren't legally wizards and thus aren't allowed to study magic under an imperial aegis. What we could do was play "wink wink, nudge nudge" or have it be held under some other authority.
Note that the phrasing is collaboration with them, not educating them in magic or having them educate us in magic. It never acknowledges that they're using magic at all, so the standard "they're priests, not magic users" defence stays intact. Now it's possible that some folk in the college might choose to exchange magical secrets - but that's not part of either version of the charter.
 
@Redshirt Army i have tired brain. Would your new vote idea have "can be told to make servioscope" as a possible task the branch could be sent to?

Edit: has gyro, is good. Does not push into pan's sphere. Is also good

[X] Plan: Cleaned Up College of Collaboration
 
Last edited:
Imagine you're a journeyman, and you're trying to decide where to go. Your options are "The Grand College of Collegiate and Extracollegiate Collaboration" or "The Grand College of Random Stuff Mathilde (or her Friends) Found Interesting". Which do you think is more likely to be appealing?
"Natural Philosophy and Artifacts" is plenty of fig leaf. Just because we in the thread can refer to it as 'random stuff Mathilde or her friends liked' doesn't mean it can't be explained in a reasonable way IC.
 
For this to become an issue a Sigmarite would have to actually show up with the intention of collaborating with Dwarves, and so far I have seen no evidence that this could possibly be the case. :V
We don't take a penalty to individual interactions with Sigmarites, we take a penalty if Sigmarism flourishes in our institution in a systemic way. Consider the EIC, which undoubtedly has a large number of Sigmarites, but which we take no penalties from because it's not institutional.

Wizards can be Sigmarites too people and it one thing to have, say, a bunch of nameless npcs in the EIC being sigmarites and quite another if, say, 4 of the total of 8 Wizards that come to our college being die-hard Light College Sigmarites.
 
You sure? Because I very distinctly remember there being an entire issue with openly stating that we would work with them on research, and having to legal fiction our way through it. Like, it would be functionally the same as long as we didn't openly say we were asking them to help study magic, because priests aren't legally wizards and thus aren't allowed to study magic under an imperial aegis. What we could do was play "wink wink, nudge nudge" or have it be held under some other authority.

@BoneyM am I forgetting something that was said that makes this different? I don't actually mind it working, just trying to figure out why this is suddenly fine.

'Studies involving collaboration ... between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers' doesn't necessarily mean Priests studying magic. If part of the actual plan is Priests doing magical research, that's a problem. 'Magisters alone shall be permitted to study magic' and all that.
 
Last edited:
"Natural Philosophy and Artifacts" is plenty of fig leaf. Just because we in the thread can refer to it as 'random stuff Mathilde or her friends liked' doesn't mean it can't be explained in a reasonable way IC.
If that was the charter, it'd be... still pretty broad, but at least a single thing. But it's not. The charter in the leading votes is:

Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)

It's a list of a bunch of specific things. 6 different foci which is very spread out.
 
'Studies involving collaboration ... between the Colleges and divine miracle-workers' doesn't necessarily mean Priests studying magic. If part of the actual plan is Priests doing magical research, that's a problem.
...Okay then. I guess I'm just very paranoid then, because I would totally be giving a proposal like that all the side eyes if it was my job to approve it.
 
Well, there's windherding for spellcasting and there's windherding for enchantment. Both of them have huge depth. Then we add in things like AV, magic of unknown sources (and therefore where it's unknown what wind/divinity they're based in), some crazy future protagonist who's working on Theurgy in secret, etc.
None of this really needs a divine spellcaster beyond hiring one for a turn or two.

-[ ] Research (optional: specify what)
Dedicated to studying a certain field or phenomenon.

I might be bit stupid but is your charter basically this, except with (optional: get some priest and runesmiths involved) ?
 
Last edited:
...Okay then. I guess I'm just very paranoid then, because I would totally be giving a proposal like that all the side eyes if it was my job to approve it.

Every Wizard above Apprentice is able to recite Article 3 word-for-word on demand. Everyone in the decision-making process will assume that Mathilde doesn't mean it in the 'blatant breach of the Articles' kind of way.
 
I like that this new plan directly pushes us into researching the things that have been really hard to motivate the thread into. Windherding especially.

Swallowing my pride, I have to admit that a pure research branch would have a really positive effect on a meta level. There's a lot of people that really want to research things but the things they want to see researched are constantly passed over for things with more immediate and/or obvious results, and that can be frustrating.

A pure research branch would alleviate that problem considerably better than a partly-library focus would.
 
Last edited:
If that was the charter, it'd be... still pretty broad, but at least a single thing. But it's not. The charter in the leading votes is:

Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)

It's a list of a bunch of specific things. 6 different foci which is very spread out.

Ok, now that's just ridiculous. You are saying, what, that we need to not only do Research-Only but also do one single topic and nothing else?

Why the hell do we even want this college in the first place if that's the case?
 
If that was the charter, it'd be... still pretty broad, but at least a single thing. But it's not. The charter in the leading votes is:

Charter: Research (multi-wind studies (including waystones), geological, metallurgical, and ecological studies, enchanting and artifice)

It's a list of a bunch of specific things. 6 different foci which is very spread out.

When it was first proposed, Redshirt had the same concern:
-- Research is one of the primary tasks we want to assign to the college, and having their assistance on the waystone project would be great. That said, we do want to constrain the focus to whatever degree is practical, and I think the foci I've picked are specific enough to give the branch college direction while being encompassing enough that the college can do what we're imagining it to do. (I'd appreciate @BoneyM 's feedback on my proposed research foci).

And the reply from Boney:
Seems like a decent middle ground. Natural philosophy and magical artefacts.

I am choosing to interpret that as a reasonable summary of whatever the official name/focus would be if it were to come up.
 
Every Wizard above Apprentice is able to recite Article 3 word-for-word on demand. Everyone in the decision-making process will assume that Mathilde doesn't mean it in the 'blatant breach of the Articles' kind of way.
Fair enough. Different contexts I suppose. Also probably personal knowledge that Mathilde has a very bad habit of skating past the Articles already, which others probably wouldn't suspect. So yeah, just me being paranoid.
 
I like that this new plan directly pushes us into researching the things that have been really hard to motivate the thread into. Windherding especially.

Swallowing my pride, I have to admit that a pure research branch would have a really positive effect on a meta level. There's a lot of people that really want to research things but the things they want to see researched are constantly passed over for things with more immediate and/or obvious results, and that can be frustrating.

A pure research branch would alleviate that problem considerably better than a partly-library focus would.

I'm not gonna be terribly upset if research-only wins but I'll still say that if we want better research in the long term it's better to do it with the library+research. The library, too, I think would be better if it had a magical section run by Wizards instead of Dwarfs so in the long term it would be much, much better to do it together.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top