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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mopman43 said:
Well, she's described using Ranald miracles, probably (she's mentioned "giving probability a quick kick in the ribs" or something to that effect)

Priests that can use their gods' lores are believed to have the same abilities that the College Magisters have, just in a different focus.
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Well that's the elven and Collegaite explanation. Miracle users themselves have a different one and so do dwarfs.
 
Valmond said:
Are you saying Mathilde does not have lessons she could not impart on a future emperor that would be for the benefit of the empire?
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No, just making conversation about where you see Mathilde's subtle influence on the imperial heir going.

The traits I listed were things I consider things only Mathilde would be likely to contribute.
The first through being a Ranaldite that is still a model Law abiding citizen, The next through being a wizard (obviously) and the last by being the pre-eminent dwarf friend.
All worthy things, of course.
Mathilde's being a polymath is not a transferrable skill. She could teach everything, from Swordmanship to Strategy... but that's also nothing the best tutors money could buy couldn't do.
 
DragonParadox said:
Mathy is very skilled in a lot of things, that is impossible to deny, but I can't help but wondering how much of that can you teach a six year old, a seven year old, and eight year old? Prince Mandred does not need grandmasters in their fields to teach him for the next few years, he needs people who are skilled in explaining the basics to kids and that skill Mathilde rather conspicuously lacks. She has never tried teaching anything to anyone.
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Mathilde can hire people for the basics and can also learn from them.

She's also capable of magically viewing Mandred's mood so she will have an advantage ordinary tutors wouldn't have.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well you said:



That is a decade + of not teaching, keeping in mind that Mathy spent only 7 years, markedly less than a decade in K8P.
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You may want to acquire some reading comperehension.
I am pretty clearly saying that she has deace or more to teach whatever she is going to teach, so that the kid is 5 now, is not a such a limiting factor.
 
Hmmm.

Thinking about it, if our job is to guard Mandred, we could likely pass a lot of self-improvement actions as part of our job, just like we did with the expedition.
 
DragonParadox said:
And there is quite a bit to indicate that is it, namely the mechanics of the RPG with wizards being able to become spellcasting priests freely and vice versa. The soul mutations are the same in said RPG.
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and the other three editions of the rpg use totally different mechanics for divine and arcane magic. Personally I prefer if they are the same source used in different ways but there is plenty of evidence in both directions and BoneyM has kept it ambiguous in Quest.
 
Valmond said:
You may want to acquire some reading comperehension.
I am pretty clearly saying that she has deace or more to teach whatever she is going to teach, so that the kid is 5 now, is not a such a limiting factor.
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But that does not make sense in the context of the post you were replying to....

I said that for at least the first few years of that decade she could not teach anything, or at least not anything unique to her skills because a small child is not able to absorb master level lessons.

Lupercal said:
and the other three editions of the rpg use totally different mechanics for divine and arcane magic. Personally I prefer if they are the same source used in different ways but there is plenty of evidence in both directions and BoneyM has kept it ambiguous in Quest.
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The GM said second Edition RPG is the closest to this quest mechanics wise so unless and until he decides to give WoG on that it's the best we have.
 
Respectfully: given that this is a vote to find out the details of the job, and the Mandred job is in the number two spot and thus guaranteed to make the "learn more" cutoff, maybe we could chill on arguing about this? There's no point in debating the particulars when 1) everyone in this conversation is speculating 2) we're already definitely going to get the particulars.
 
DragonParadox said:
And there is quite a bit to indicate that is it, namely the mechanics of the RPG with wizards being able to become spellcasting priests freely and vice versa. The soul mutations are the same in said RPG.
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Yes, but in said RPG you can also pick up Windsight just from praying really hard, even if you never get the ability to channel Divine Lores or the faintest spark of magical ability. (The Lay Priest and Prelate Careers)
 
picklepikkl said:
Respectfully: given that this is a vote to find out the details of the job, and the Mandred job is in the number two spot and thus guaranteed to make the "learn more" cutoff, maybe we could chill on arguing about this? There's no point in debating the particulars when 1) everyone in this conversation is speculating 2) we're already definitely going to get the particulars.
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Fair enough. We are definitely getting more info on the court job so I'll wait on that.
 
DragonParadox said:
But that does not make sense in the context of the post you were replying to....

I said that for at least the first few years of that decade she could not teach anything, or at least not anything unique to her skills because a small child is not able to absorb master level lessons.
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It makes perfect sense in that she is not going to try to offer master level lessons at the start.
Instead she will help him form his world view, by example and by lesson.

And as pointed out, we will be learning more if the vote goes that way.
 
BoneyM said:
You observe her very carefully as you approach, with more senses than even most Wizards could boast. Your impression from years earlier is unchanged, she's definitely no Vampire, but there are hints of energies to her that definitely aren't normal. Two types of energies, actually, swirling around each other in a way sure to result in Dhar if they were the Winds you were familiar with. But these are even more exotic; they have the tang of the Divine, one very familiar, one not. "Wouldn't have missed it, your Majesty," you say. "It's been some time since we last crossed paths."

She waves a hand in what most would take to be a dismissive gesture, but you can faintly see the energies radiating off it and encompassing the room. "Back in Nachthafen. Wonderful place, or at least it was for me. If you'll forgive me for mangling a phrase, better to rule in Sylvania than to serve in Reikland."
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Im not sure if finding tools to kill vampire was just luck or if she actively did something, but she seems to be able to manipulate divine energies.
 
BoneyM said:
If you take Teclis' statements on the nature of divine magic as gospel, it would mean that Ranald's apparent intervention during the Only Gork debacle was just Mathilde casting magic in a weird way.
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From an elf perspective it may well have been. Every elf apparently channels every god depending on what they are doing. The difference between how humans and elves see the gods could be the difference between passive and active voice, the same thing said in different ways. After all the elves never denied that gods to have independent existence and act as their domains imply.
 
Yes Teclis is clearly not correct in the particulars but that doesn't mean he's entirely wrong, that said the fact that Avatar was required to understand divine energies does point to priestly miracles being orthagonal but probably related given Mathilde seems to treat windsight as related.
 
DragonParadox said:
From an elf perspective it may well have been. Every elf apparently channels every god depending on what they are doing. The difference between how humans and elves see the gods could be the difference between passive and active voice, the same thing said in different ways. After all the elves never denied that gods to have independent existence and act as their domains imply.
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That's a possibility, too. The point is, there's more to the divine magic question than 'Teclis said they're Wizards, so they're Wizards'. There's a lot of room for cultural miscommunications on both sides of that exchange.
 
BoneyM said:
If you take Teclis' statements on the nature of divine magic as gospel, it would mean that Ranald's apparent intervention during the Only Gork debacle was just Mathilde casting magic in a weird way.
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Well, the important part for Mathilde herself was letting all that energy pass through her without exploding from the overload. That is technically not too different from Grounding it, only that she send it back into the Aethyr, rather than the nearest bit of ground.
The part where the Divine became really important was on the other end, where is was recieved and used by Ranald.

One could argue that the part that Mathilde herself did was not all that different from a weird form of casting.
 
SpaceSloth said:
Im not sure if finding tools to kill vampire was just luck or if she actively did something, but she seems to be able to manipulate divine energies.
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Technically speaking, the Shallyan energy is (according to her) just from some rejuvenation miracles they've done on her.

(It should be impossible to wield the divine lores of both Ranald and Shallya)

So it's not impossible that the Ranald energy is also his blessing, not her using his lore.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Well, the important part for Mathilde herself was letting all that energy pass through her without exploding from the overload. That is technically not too different from Grounding it, only that she send it back into the Aethyr, rather than the nearest bit of ground.
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The bolded part's the sticking point. Because that's what the Vortex does. Which would imply that Mathilde, using nothing but Ulgu, was able to replicate the spellwork of Caledor Dragontamer. Which would be absurd.

EDIT: Without any planning, preparation or intent, even. Which would make it even more absurd.
 
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