I mean we are already trusting the Church of Sigmar with it. Given her feelings on them I'd say the Colleges are the easier sell.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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I mean we are already trusting the Church of Sigmar with it. Given her feelings on them I'd say the Colleges are the easier sell.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
If we were to convey this at all - which I do not recommend - it would not be the complete secrets. It would be a simple statement of "We saw them braiding dhar, and that may be important." No suppositions, no completed secret, just "that was weird." And it's way too late to do that anyway. Now they would be wondering why we didn't say it sooner - we aren't allowed to study it to figure out the why, after all.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
This is a good point. Who could even be trusted with such knowledge? Any LM or even Magister who knows the two Secrets is an Empire-level threat.
- Location
- UK
A Mathilde in motion stays in motion.
I would say 'like an Avalanche' but that seems like it would be in rather poor taste at the moment.
Making use of the second secret of dhar requires using dhar. It probably could be witnessed in action just fine but is at best of academic interest. It is not a viable weapon against necromancers, except as a sort of 'damn your name and line for millennia to save the empire' last resort.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Well, it's not so much "Trusting the Church of Sigmar with it" as much as "The Curch of Sigmar already knows it and Mathilde knows no way of removing knowledge from a person outside of liberally applied greastwords".
That is what I mean. We at least trust them enough with it not to apply greatsword. I'd say we trust the Colleges with a secret the Church of Sigmar already knows.
- Location
- Finland
Atleast in part because applying the greatsword would get us dead, and the knowledge probably still with them.
And whatever our personal opinions on Sigmar, the church has largely proved itself capable of not reading the big book of necromancy.
No point adding more temptation among people far better placed on using the information.
- Location
- Greece
Hmmm... isn't technically the church of Sigmar in violation of the law? I mean, the artticles clearly state that only magisters may study magic legally under the Empire, and not even they may study dark magic (implying dark magic is a subsection of magic), thus the church of Sigmar studying (Dark) magic without being magisters technically violates the law, no?
Realpolitik means no one can push that issue, but still... they are violating the law.
Realpolitik means no one can push that issue, but still... they are violating the law.
Eh, the Church of Sigmar at large doesn't know shit. It's mostly the Grand Theogonist and his closest circle we're relying on, and that's a circle that is likely full of Witch Hunters who if anything are too likely to have already burned the secret without telling anyone.
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In theory new ones read that book since long before Magnus. If they are breaking the law by having someone read it we have no way to know it
- Location
- Finland
The Church of Sigmar is, most pointedly, not studying magic, they keep the big book of necromancy locked up and murder anyone who tries to read it without a very good reason.
- Location
- Space
I was under the impression that divine casters were safe to know the secrets because they couldn't use necromancy even if they did turn evil due to not being able to control Shyish. Is that not correct?
Everyone can use Dhar. It's a democratic sort of evil. Van Hall for instance started off as a priest of Mor.
If they study it, yes. And they may find themselves far less beyond judgement than they believed, if unofficially.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Though, technically speaking, I'm pretty sure he was the non-casting sort. That's why he and Vlad needed to work so hard to get a spark of magic in him.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
The Colleges collectively? No. Or at least personally I wouldn't. But Algard specifically? If we didn't trust him we already fucked up with all that Skaven stuff we handed him.
But just to paint a horror scenario: What if that Lord of Change went to the Skaven at first opportunity because our dictionary has already fallen into Tzeentch cultist hands and this is the first Tzeentchian raid to male use of it?
Don't you have to be able to weild introduction level amounts of Shyish before being able to do Necromancy with Dhar?
In fact, @BoneyM, I never quite understood why Mathilde is now considered to be someone who can do Necromancy if she can't channel any Shyish at all with her soul. If any if the eight Winds could be used to do the same type of Dhar shenanigans with corpses then at the very least that would completely invalidate all of those Umbramancy memes and speculations from years ago.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
She can wield Shyish, she just can't do so without creating Dhar.
But if she's going for Necromancy, then that's not much of a problem.
Things we've learned or experienced on this expedition:
Magics
*Waystone stuff.
*Mass-casting or endurance casting. Or clever solutions or having to improvise and work with what you have. Rite of Way, Mockery of Death (and earlier, with the Okral-saving even)
*Having met, and fought, Daemons in combat. Piercing Daemonic illusions, and stealing a Karak from the Aethyr. ((This may be a Combat lesson instead or additionally.))
*Observing the Windfall?
EDIT: *Mis-cast management. The best way to deal with a miscast is to not miscast in the first place. The second best way, is to make the enemy deal with your miscast instead.
Social
*It's a pain to juggle few actions like this, with choosing whether to socialize, or do something else, or what...
*We've had our conclusions and viewpoints on the Expedition and on Borek, on Karag Dum, on the Dwarfs and the Runelords of the Karaz Ankor, re-examined and re-assessed several times.
(Though Mathilde hasn't exactly admitted herself being wrong to herself. Like that 'I'm not sure if Borek even knows Reikspiel!' at first. And then when Borek shows he can speak Reikspiel with barely an accent, she never goes 'Oh wow, I was quite wrong about that.')
EDIT: *Being able to deal with the Uzkulak and Dolgan, without getting suckered or corrupted or attacked or whatever. Being able to gain insight into when you can deal with an enemy faction or not.
??? Category (Could be magic, could be something else)
*Using the Protector side of the coin, and getting huge gains from it in a dramatic fashion; some kind of Ranald-related upgrade perhaps?
Maybe some kind of trait that makes socializing easier or more effective from now on? Not necessarily more AP (because AP is an OOC consideration too) but more... effectiveness or depth?
Or just -- an ability to go from person to person, and keep in touch with them more easily from then on. One of the problems is not having enough time to do all the things, yes. But one of the other problems is that things change or circumstances change after we check on them once or twice, and it'd be nice to update neatly.
Magics
*Waystone stuff.
*Mass-casting or endurance casting. Or clever solutions or having to improvise and work with what you have. Rite of Way, Mockery of Death (and earlier, with the Okral-saving even)
*Having met, and fought, Daemons in combat. Piercing Daemonic illusions, and stealing a Karak from the Aethyr. ((This may be a Combat lesson instead or additionally.))
*Observing the Windfall?
EDIT: *Mis-cast management. The best way to deal with a miscast is to not miscast in the first place. The second best way, is to make the enemy deal with your miscast instead.
Social
*It's a pain to juggle few actions like this, with choosing whether to socialize, or do something else, or what...
*We've had our conclusions and viewpoints on the Expedition and on Borek, on Karag Dum, on the Dwarfs and the Runelords of the Karaz Ankor, re-examined and re-assessed several times.
(Though Mathilde hasn't exactly admitted herself being wrong to herself. Like that 'I'm not sure if Borek even knows Reikspiel!' at first. And then when Borek shows he can speak Reikspiel with barely an accent, she never goes 'Oh wow, I was quite wrong about that.')
EDIT: *Being able to deal with the Uzkulak and Dolgan, without getting suckered or corrupted or attacked or whatever. Being able to gain insight into when you can deal with an enemy faction or not.
??? Category (Could be magic, could be something else)
*Using the Protector side of the coin, and getting huge gains from it in a dramatic fashion; some kind of Ranald-related upgrade perhaps?
Maybe some kind of trait that makes socializing easier or more effective from now on? Not necessarily more AP (because AP is an OOC consideration too) but more... effectiveness or depth?
Or just -- an ability to go from person to person, and keep in touch with them more easily from then on. One of the problems is not having enough time to do all the things, yes. But one of the other problems is that things change or circumstances change after we check on them once or twice, and it'd be nice to update neatly.
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
No. The requirement is the ability to use any Wind of magic at all. Even to the tiniest degree. Shyish is just the most common precursor due to being aligned with death.
We fought the Skaven Sorcerer that was using Ulgu-Dhar, for example.
Generally what they are doing is the necromancer uses Shyish to keep the Dhar in line and control it, while minimizing their own exposure. Mathilde can do the same using Ulgu, though as she knows the first secret she can also use the Dhar to tame itself.
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[x] Attempt to make contact with the Dolgan with Johann
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Yusak with Johann
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Yusak with Johann
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
How is this a nightmare exactly? I wish them all the joy of fighting each other as effectively as possible.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Necromancy is specifically Shyish + Dhar, the magic that the Eshin Sorcerer was using is the Lore of Stealth, Ulgu + Dhar, unique to the Eshin.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[x] Use Rite of Way nearly constantly
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Dolgan
[x] Use Rite of Way for the moderately difficult ground
[x] Use Rite of Way nearly constantly
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Dolgan
