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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Some actual reactions to the content now that I've had some mopey sads at the loss of Gotrek (and the nameless shmucks... uh, I mean heroes).
BoneyM said:
You shrug. "It's yet to have a proper field-testing. This stretch is just a warm-up, it's the steppes that will really put it through its paces."
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Hey, it's been properly field-tested! We left the wheelbarrow tracks and bruised cabbages to prove it.

What it clearly hadn't been was mountain-tested.
BoneyM said:
"How does your Magesight manifest?" you ask curiously.

"Visual, which is actually not that common in the Light Order - we initiate early so most don't have a chance to develop their own before they're shaped by the Choruses. Citharus has auditory like most, Timpania has olfactory, and Barbitus has... what was it?"

"Visceral, Magister," he says, not looking up from rooting through his rucksack.

"And how is all this manifesting for you?"

Barbitus frowns. "Hard to say, but it's doing a lot of it. I think I'll be skipping lunch."
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Now I really want to talk to them (and Alexandra, but mostly for the sake of being thorough).

Even for individual wizards, Magesight doesn't manifest exclusively as one sense. Mathilde is primarily sight, but Dhar is both brown and smelly to her. And the Waaagh is I guess sort of visible but also none of the above, being both a weird fizzing taste and a sound that rattles the teeth. Which I guess would make sense if it originates from a couple of hotblooded wargods energetically punching and yelling in the Aethyr.

That gives us a good reason to chat with the Lights. Maybe they, and especially Barbitus, would like to hear about other perspectives. Johann would make an interesting tag-along too if he wants to come; I can't imagine perceiving magic as a sort of heat and pressure is common among wizards.
BoneyM said:
You nod, considering his words. Your first interview with him did reveal that he considers himself something of an explorer, so you suppose it's no surprise he'd focus on the landscape rather than the events. And maybe his seasonal attunement keeps him centered in such a way that the periphery of a Tempter aura couldn't get its hooks in. You're not fully convinced, but it's your job to never be fully convinced. "And the theological one?" you ask curiously.
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Well, I'm mollified. He seems alright. About as likely to be a secret traitor as anyone else on the expedition (except of course for Egrimm, who has been nothing but a sterling example of Magisterial rectitude in all our interactions).
BoneyM said:
"Bloody Spear and Black Spider tribes," he says, nodding. "That way we have a chance to still be Knights in a few generations, rather than monks with puppies or feudal lords with pretensions."
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Oho, I like him! He's not happy with their bad showing, but is working hard to progress beyond it.

But I would also not entirely mind being monks with puppies. :lol:
 
I think we should press on - in terms of supplies, we do have ways to make things fit for the journey back, such as hunting in the Zorn Uzkul, buying more supplies from Uzkulak, or even taking a different route back. Being able to freely (the expedition apparently has arbitrary amounts of cash available) resupply from the Dolgan does mean that going on to Dum and back here would be a net neutral on supplies (so long as we didn't take damage).

The real issue is that this cut out the safety margin we had for supplies, and further losses of steam-wagons will basically doom us. So there's three important factors - how well can the wagons deal with cornering/crossing the ascent/descent, will anything on the steppes risk damaging the steam-wagons, and will anything at Dum damage the steam-wagons.

The second one is the easiest to answer - we can be nearly certain that nothing on the steppes will risk further damage to the steam-wagons, as not only are the Dolgan highly likely to keep their deal granting us passage but pretty much the only local tools that might damage the metal behemoths are magic of one stripe or another and we're pretty well set up to deal with that.

The first is manageable - for all that making a mistake on terrain like this is disastrous it's also not that likely, especially seeing as people are going to be extra careful after having gotten an abject demonstration of the stakes at hand. This was a nat1 on a d100 whose reaction roll was an 8 on a d100, which means it's highly likely that this was an isolated incident that won't occur again.

The third is also manageable - there could very well be some giant gribbly at Dum capable of damaging the steam-wagons, but we had the option of being extra cautious with the steam-wagons back at Vlag and we will likely have options to be more cautious with the steam-wagons going forward too. It'll be more difficult and may well raise casualties, but we brought a great deal of force with us and losing knights does ease the supply burden so it's not all that bad a trade to make.

[x] Press on
 
I really think people are overestimating our ability to deal with the Chaos wastes, or undervaluing how scary the chaos wastes are. There are terrifying things there, and they're the type of terrifying that scares dragons. We were prepared to deal with this, with a full complement of steam carriages entering the chaos wastes. But this loss came much too early for what we planned. Remember, the hard part was never going to happen before Karak Dum, but always after we were beaten up by whatever was there. And that was a viable plan, up until now.

We took a massive loss. The biggest loss was Gotrek, who's more important on this trip than anyone other than Mathilde, and that's only because she's the MC. Gotrek was the most important because he was what made the tanks fixable in case of damage. Without him, we suddenly become very brittle, where damage to any tank now means just leaving it behind. On top of this, we lost a supply cap of one weeks of stores. This is a huge problem as well, as it means we now desperately need to forage if we plan on continuing to Karak Dum. Even worse, if we succeed and rescue people, we end up in an even worse supply situation.

Third, we already succeeded beyond our wildest expectations. We grabbed Vlag back for the dwarves, plugging a hole in the mountain passes. Compared to a rescue mission that Dum is, this is so much more important, so the mission is clearly a success. More so, because in a

So please, don't vote to continue because it just feels right. This isn't going to be the last time we can try to take Karag Dum either. We can wait a few years, or maybe more (depends on Borek), then come back, start from Karak Vlag for a shorter, safer route, have more time to prepare, and have an easier time of it. Honestly, I expect it will happen soon, as Borek would have lead the expedition that saved Vlag, so he'll get much better outfitted on his next attempt.
 
BoneyM said:
"And to prove it, that's a much-debated phenomenon we can confirm the existence of. Natural Dhar. There's plenty that argue that it only comes about as a result of unnatural influences or ill intent."
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Actually, to be fair, how do we know that there's no unnatural influence or ill intent? Maybe the mountains are evil! :V

Maybe there's a sleeping Dragon Ogre in each one. Maybe that's the ill intent or unnatural influence.
 
Abhorsen said:
Remember, the hard part was never going to happen before Karak Dum, but always after we were beaten up by whatever was there. And that was a viable plan, up until now.
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Not necessarily true, getting to Karag Dum is also the hard part too. Hell, before Thorek came by and advised them, their path would have been even more treacherous. As is, this exact spot we're in is fairly risky -- in the sense that we had to ascend, and had to do so slowly, and so were sitting ducks all the meanwhile.
Abhorsen said:
We took a massive loss. The biggest loss was Gotrek, who's more important on this trip than anyone other than Mathilde, and that's only because she's the MC. Gotrek was the most important because he was what made the tanks fixable in case of damage. Without him, we suddenly become very brittle, where damage to any tank now means just leaving it behind.
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The Engineers can keep the steam-wagons running. It's just, if they break down horribly or something unexpected happens, we're in some trouble. But as is though, let's remember that while the steam-wagons can break... they aren't broken. They're still working and in good repair.

Our losses boil down to: extra food cap, over a dozen engineers, and the head engineer. We could have lost Borek, or the Wizards, or Deathfang could have failed to react well. If the Slayers were still in here, it'd be a lot more wince-inducing, to just have that loss like that.

And... if need be, on the food supply issue, we can have Deathfang hunt.
Abhorsen said:
So please, don't vote to continue because it just feels right. This isn't going to be the last time we can try to take Karag Dum either. We can wait a few years, or maybe more (depends on Borek), then come back, start from Karak Vlag for a shorter, safer route, have more time to prepare, and have an easier time of it. Honestly, I expect it will happen soon, as Borek would have lead the expedition that saved Vlag, so he'll get much better outfitted on his next attempt.
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We actually have no idea if we can try again for Karag Dum. Maybe Mathilde will die before that happens. Maybe Borek will set off alone, in one lone Steam-Wagon, even if the rest of the expedition turns back. And maybe the Ice Witches will be annoyed by us failing to fulfill our promise to them.

And maybe the next expedition will be a decade out, or two.

Please don't vote to abandon it at the first sign of trouble, either. And to immediately bring up sunk cost as soon as we take a setback.
 
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Question: could we use a large net stretched and secured to cross over a gap (chasm/river/etc) with Rite of Way? Since the spell would see the net as twine-air-twine and go "ah I need to plop a Skywalk here"? Apologies if I'm metagaming the metamagic. Love the quest.
 
Garlak said:
We actually have no idea if we can try again for Karag Dum. Maybe Mathilde will die before that happens. Maybe Borek will set off alone, in one lone Steam-Wagon, even if the rest of the expedition turns back. And maybe the Ice Witches will be annoyed by us failing to fulfill our promise to them.
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We also had the benefit of being at total OCP this time around. The Skaven/CDwarves/Kurgan had no reason to expect Dwarves had anything like this in their playbook. If we try it again years later they'll have had time to game out how they might want to respond.

There's really no guarantee a second expedition (If it even happens in a relevant timeframe) would be in a better condition after reaching this far on the route than we are.
 
Algalon said:
This is truly a tragedy.

We might have been well on our way to avert Gotrek's tragic fate thanks to that cushy clan membership & guild position at K8P getting him away from the environment that would have lead to his slayerdom. And all that thanks to sheer dumb luck of him being the one designing the steam wagons.

And then through that very same dumb luck his life is cut short. Not through enemy action. Not through heroic sacrifice. But quite literally because 'Rocks fall, everybody dies'. It's Abelheim's glorious last charge all over again.

Anyway, back to the expedition. Whether we press forward or turn back, we lack the food capacity to do so without foraging. The Nomad Tribe we had the food deal with lies just ahead, so we will be able to recover the food we'll use up reaching Karag Dum, so pressing on should be net neutral.
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It's actually worse than that. He died on the steam wagon he made, he died when it failed. To the dwarfs it's not going to look like a hero's death, though most aren't going to say it. Goreck's death is going to look like just another radical engineer dying doing radical things, a cautionary tale, one footnote among thousands, one more confirmation that the conservatives were right.
 
Sculpt0r said:
Question: could we use a large net stretched and secured to cross over a gap (chasm/river/etc) with Rite of Way? Since the spell would see the net as twine-air-twine and go "ah I need to plop a Skywalk here"? Apologies if I'm metagaming the metamagic. Love the quest.
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No, the power requirement for a solid road of Skywalks would very quickly overwhelm the caster. That's why the spell has that detection element rather than just laying out an avenue of them.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's actually worse than that. He died on the steam wagon he made, he died when it failed. To the dwarfs it's not going to look like a hero's death, though most aren't going to say it. Goreck's death is going to look like just another radical engineer dying doing radical things, a cautionary tale, one footnote among thousands, one more confirmation that the conservatives were right.
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I think the spin depends heavily on the condition of the expedition if/when it makes it back. If 5/6 of them come back after successfully making contact? That's a very different reception the tech would get as opposed to a scenario where 0-2 come back in failure.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I think the spin depends heavily on the condition of the expedition if/when it makes it back. If 5/6 of them come back after successfully making contact? That's a very different reception the tech would get as opposed to a scenario where 0-2 come back in failure.
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Given that he died, and not even to Chaos or enemies but too the terrain due to his own supposedly shoddy work I suspect any success will be counted in spite of Gorek not because of him. Reember he was a willfully clanless wierdo, now a dead willfully clanless wierdo by his own works. Dwarf society will not be inclined to give him credit. They were barely inclined to give him credit when he was alive.
 
DragonParadox said:
. He died on the steam wagon he made, he died when it failed.
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Would they see it that way? I mean, assuming at least most of the rest of the wagons return and do well?

I know the Dawi are pretty great at logistics, but I'm sure they've lose people and vital equipment to rockslides, landslides, weather, and avalanches. They must have a concept of "sometimes stuff happens."

The machine itself didn't fail, the earth failed first. If the other machines do well ... I don't think they'd write the vehicles off.

Could be wrong.
 
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King Arthur said:
Would they see it that way? I mean, assuming at least most of the rest of the wagons return and do well?

I know the Dawi are pretty great at logistics, but I'm sure they've lose people and vital equipment to rockslides, landslides, weather, and avalanches. They must have a concept of "sometimes stuff happens."

The machine itself didn't fail, the earth failed first. If the other machines do well ... I don't think they'd write the vehicles off.

Could be wrong.
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The landslide was part of the train, the danger was at least in theory predictable. More importantly there's no reason to give Gortek the benefit of the doubt, no clan or guild to argue for him and it suits the narrative of elder engineers to have him fail to his own hubris. Success needs no excuses but failure is going to get picked apart like a carcass by vultures.
 
It's really super weird that I'm both dismayed and a little glad this happened.

There's a reason we prepared so much for this and having "rocks fall, people die" occur highlights the absurd risk of this journey. The utter BS of the rolls during the last major fight set the stage for something really random occurring and having that happen now instead of later is weirdly relieving - even if it really doesn't affect the chances of bad things happening later as well.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's actually worse than that. He died on the steam wagon he made, he died when it failed. To the dwarfs it's not going to look like a hero's death, though most aren't going to say it. Goreck's death is going to look like just another radical engineer dying doing radical things, a cautionary tale, one footnote among thousands, one more confirmation that the conservatives were right.
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Eh on the other hand... remember we are a dwarf now.

So basically we are living breathing irrefutable proof that the conservatives are wrong.

We aren't just radical, we're so radical that we journeyed deep into the Conservative wastes to kill all the conservative daemons, then we returned, having become incarnate of the Kickflip Wind to initiate the RADICALTIDE!!!
 
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