The elf trip was given to us because we gave the ambassador a Druchi to torture to break up the monotony of his posting, it was even an untouched Druchi which was very thoughtful of us. I doubt he gave much thought to our actual skills beyond 'was able to get the drop on a Druchi'. As far as Daoir is concerned 'Teclis' little experiment did something useful migth as well test how useful'.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The elf trip was given to us because we gave the ambassador a Druchi to torture to break up the monotony of his posting, it was even an untouched Druchi which was very thoughtful of us. I doubt he gave much thought to our actual skills beyond 'was able to get the drop on a Druchi'. As far as Daoir is concerned 'Teclis' little experiment did something useful migth as well test how useful'.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I believe the elf trip is three months not six, that's why my primary aim with the first elf-cation is that we can go in hammer and tongs to try and earn a permanent stay, in three months I think the amount we can learn is very very limited it's not even a full turn. That's why I want to work on diplomacy and finish the sword style, that's why I also want to have done the Ulgu tongs action because they are all the kind of thing that can dramatically change how we are viewed.
Diplomacy is obvious, but a Human sword master is another point in "holy shit this person is skilled" Ulgu tongs if even the most basic level of it is possible is another reputation ceiling breaker.
Under high elven mage traditions for the spahery group we'd be an apprentice no matter how amazing the stuff we can do is. Even basic success at Ulgu tongs is enough to force them to go "Okay, this person is more than that"
None of these things are necessarily must haves I just think they change the potential scope of how we're looked at very dramatically when they all come together.
- Location
- Greece
inb4 Skaven actually have clownfish anatomy and can change genders.
Most enemies of order are really easy to play against each other, though, even when belonging to a single faction. Only exception I can think is necromancers and maaaaaaaaybe dark elves, everyone else is really easy to make 2 factions out of one.
Depends on what one means "genuine badass". The weakest LM is certainly on the 0,01% of most powerful beings in the setting (barring silly things such as the hypothetical existence of infinite greater daemons), its just that this 0,01% has an absurd amount of variation and includes everything from the weakest runelord to Lord Kroak. But I would say that yes, one is genuine badass at this level, especially if they are also kitted in other magical gear and skills... One doesn't have to be the strongest person of the world or unbeatable to be a genuine badass, that is a silly way to quantify badassery.
Maybe the more correct word would be "a genuine top tier", but even then, it feels weird to imply that only the top tiers matter when, historially, people who should be B or C tiers by that kind of evaluation have managed to pivot history in warhammer pretty damn well like, say, Gotri, Magnus the Pious, Thorgrimm (before becoming king), or ... well, Mathilde herself.
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I don't even disagree with any of this but I think we're much more likely to run into something we can't handle if we're fighting in the chaos wastes. Karak Dum is absolutely the kind of place where we could run into a top tier chaos sorcerer and he has a shit tonne of magical might he can draw on given Dhar is semi-integral to his magic.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
I imagine the bar we passed was even lower than that. Something to the effect of "If she's sent to help kill some of my enemies, it's unlikely she'll fuck things up badly enough to outweigh the benefits of reminding Imperials that they might get rewarded for bringing me more dark elves to torture to death". Mathilde likely isn't "worth" curiosity to him, she just lets him set a bit of precedent at almost no cost to get nice things for free.
- Location
- Earth
The last Dhar Casters Mathilde met all died to her.
Alkharad, Countess von Carstein, a couple more necromancers.
Dhar is so volatile anyone not knowing the Secrets of Dhar (which random chaos sorcerer 7 does not know) can easily be forced to eat a miscast.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Random actual chaos sorcerer is casting a divine lore and so doesn't care.
We don't even know if we can use the Secrets of Dhar against Chaos Sorcery. Do we really want to start wrestling with a Chaos God over the Winds? I think the second secret is something different to just regular dispelling. It possibly requires a more intimate engagement with it.
I do not think it is that bad. Jokes about elven arrogance aside the Shadow Warriors respect their foes and there comes Mathilde with a Druchi prisoner wrapped up with a bow. That is cause to take note.
- Location
- Earth
I am not talking about us using the Second Secret against them, I am talking about them not knowing the First one and therefor having to wrestle with the innate volatility of Dhar.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
I wonder whether translating spells across winds or to denatured lesser magic is considered a step toward high magic, or just proof that you understand the wind you started out learning.
@BoneyM How does the Elvish magic tradition view things like that? If we managed to create an Ulgu-alligned version of the Golden Hounds spell, is crossing wind boundaries in that way pushing out of Apprentice work? Would that wizard from the Red College getting the MMAP to work as lesser magic qualify?
Do they? Or do they outsource that to their god when they perform chaos sorcery. We've never seen a Chaos Sorcerer in action, so we don't know how they cast or what the mechanics of their interaction with their God and the Winds are.
They wouldn't see the point. To their point of view, if one Wind can already do something, figuring out how to get another Wind to do the same thing is redundant.
Agreed, it really depends upon how exactly Chaos Sorcery works though.
We know from Mathildes forays into countering Waaagh magic that a shaman that wants to cast Foot of Gork needs to somehow direct the gods attentions upon what he wants to get stomped on. We can't counter the divine stomp, but we can counter the target designator. If Chaos Sorcery needs to resort to similiar tricks we might have a chance to do the same thing to them.
I'm pretty sure there are known ways of dispelling chaos sorcery, and also ways at getting better at it, but I wouldn't want to assume they operate under the same constraints and necromancers or that the same techniques would work against them.
For saphey's mages maybe, but perhaps mono-wind traditions will think differently. Of course we will have to find out IC.
- Location
- Earth
Well, we do have some information on that in character.
So we won't meet a Chaos Sorcerer wholly unprepared.
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
There is also the fact that, I believe it was determined a long long time ago that actually using the Second Secret of Dhar is a violation of the Articles Of Imperial Magic, since it requires you to directly manipulate Dhar and any touching Dhar is a no-no. The analogy used was along the lines of
EDIT: My old post collecting some of the Word Of Boney statements:
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!
As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
EDIT2: Direct quotes:
On using second secret of Dhar instead of a normal magical dispel:
"The law says DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR. You can slash the tires, you can bash in the windows, you can cut the fuel lines. But if you touch the steering wheel, even if it's just to give it a little turn to make it drive off a cliff, you burn."
On studying and using hypothetical Ulgu Tongs as intermediate:
"You'd not be performing what the Articles refer to as Dark Magic. The 'studying' clause is murky because looking at it to figure out if you can do the same with a Wind is okay, and looking at it to better figure out how to disrupt and counter it is valid, but at the point where you're actually manipulating Dhar to have it act in a specific way is where any authority would draw the line."
"
That poke is still 'using' Dhar. Just a bit and just for a moment, and you aren't actually channelling it through you, but it's still enough to get a Wizard burned. That said, using Shyish as an interstitial Wind is explicitly banned as 'necromancy', and though I doubt a Witch Hunter will be moved by the Air Bud Rule, there's no rule that says you can't poke Dhar with Ulgu."
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- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
I agree, I just don't think it'd go far past "she probably can't make things worse by any notable amount". Which, despite the pessimistic, arrogant framing does translate to "we'll be able to find a role where she's able to keep up". I doubt that he holds most Magisters in such...high...regard.
True, true.
Maybe we'll get lucky again with the dispelling and can collect another Waaaghbane / Necromantic Insight style trait to screw over Chaos Sorcery. That would be really neat.
Probably unrealistic considering we got one by reading the Liber Mortis and the other by being the Avatar of Mork, but one can dream. Watching enemy mages miscast is always fun to me.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I'm sure we can become an Avatar of Tzeench if we ask him nicely.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Humans: "Check it out! I got this chainsaw to screw in a nail!"
Elves: "Um, ok. That's... but why tho? Just... use a screwdriver[1]?"
Humans: "Well, you know what they say, when all you have is a chainsaw, get really good at using chainsaws."
[1] Also elves: "Wait. How did you get a chainsaw to-[2]"
[2] Also humans: "heh, mysticism go burrrr."
Cool Elves: "Horribly inefficient and the method makes no sense. Mad props for kickflipping it in the chainsaw-style tho!"
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Magic 11, Stats exceeding 50, the ability to duel a 4th gen Slann and come out on top.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Well, if you take a gear, change the toothing to be the inverse of the chainsaw, and add on guide walls to keep it slipping out of place, you can turn the linear motion of the chain back into angular motion, then...
There is also the fact that, I believe it was determined a long long time ago that actually using the Second Secret of Dhar is a violation of the Articles Of Imperial Magic, since it requires you to directly manipulate Dhar and any touching Dhar is a no-no. The analogy used was along the lines of"The rule is You Shall Not Touch The Steering Wheel. You can slash the tires, you can shoot the engine, but touching the steering wheel (even if is a quick nudge to ram the ram off the road or to drive off of a cliff) is an automatic violation."
EDIT: My old post collecting some of the Word Of Boney statements:
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest Fantasy - Users' Choice!
As a Journeywoman, Grey Wizard Mathilde Weber is dropped into the deep end of intrigue and double-dealing after a surprise assignment to the necromancer-afflicted province of Stirland. Follow her trials, travails, feats and discoveries as she makes her way in the world and does her best to...
EDIT2: Direct quotes:
On using second secret of Dhar instead of a normal magical dispel:
"The law says DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR. You can slash the tires, you can bash in the windows, you can cut the fuel lines. But if you touch the steering wheel, even if it's just to give it a little turn to make it drive off a cliff, you burn."
On studying and using hypothetical Ulgu Tongs as intermediate:
"You'd not be performing what the Articles refer to as Dark Magic. The 'studying' clause is murky because looking at it to figure out if you can do the same with a Wind is okay, and looking at it to better figure out how to disrupt and counter it is valid, but at the point where you're actually manipulating Dhar to have it act in a specific way is where any authority would draw the line."
"
That poke is still 'using' Dhar. Just a bit and just for a moment, and you aren't actually channelling it through you, but it's still enough to get a Wizard burned. That said, using Shyish as an interstitial Wind is explicitly banned as 'necromancy', and though I doubt a Witch Hunter will be moved by the Air Bud Rule, there's no rule that says you can't poke Dhar with Ulgu."
Not that I think the Second Secret would work on Chaos Sorcery, but if it did and we used it what reason would we have to explain that fact? 'The daemon worshiper blew himself up' is hardly a rare or unexpected phenomenon the way reducing an undead army to dust would be.