Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

veekie · Sep 28, 2020

Tomcost said:
So the casting time of Shadow Knives, for example, is too long for melee combat, got it.

Almost any spell is a bad bet while in melee. Thats what the sword is for!

Jyn Ryvia · Sep 28, 2020

veekie said:
Almost any spell is a bad bet while in melee. Thats what the sword is for!

Also why we need to get that 'ward' at some point.

Rafin · Sep 28, 2020

@Mopman43 I saw a few more Warhammer quests, but I haven't actually read them. If there's a reason that you haven't gotten them in your list other than that you simply weren't aware of them, please tell me.

The rise of Clan Flamespear

Naggaroth Without Malekith

Huh. I thought I had more, but the other three barely made it beyond turn 3.

veekie · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
You look at the Shaman, weighing him up. "My Clan," you eventually say, "will be travelling through here on a pilgrimage to the Blessed Lands, north of what you say is Yusak territory. We do not wish to expend our strength before we arrive. We would be willing to pay for safe passage through Dolgan land and for cattle to feed us on our journey, and then again as we return, in silver or gold or amber."

Technically true, the best kind of true:
-Mathilde identifies with the Colleges and she's certainly journeying with a lot of wizards. Its her Clan alright.
-Its a pilgrimage to a lost Dwarfhold, but still one.

BoneyM said:
The Shaman nods. "It is wise to not seek conflict with the Kurgan on the steppe, just as we would not seek conflict with the Norscan on the waves. How many mouths have you to feed?"

"Eight hundred, some hungrier than others due to their form."

He looks curious. "You travel with your Blessed? That will be a sight to see. Remain here." The Shaman remounts his horse and rides back to the other Dolgans, hopefully only to confer on a reasonable price. You do your best to suppress any signs of nerves as he returns back. "Silver," he says as he dismounts once more. "It spends easiest." He names a price for passage that would be challenging for a Norscan clan but trivial for a Dwarven Karak, as well as a set of prices for livestock that seem, if your mental conversion is correct, no dearer than an Averland stockyard.

Not gold I suppose, too much heat, too hard to spend, anyone with something you could buy in gold could also seize the gold from a tribe of modest strength.

And economic imbalances - cattle is in abundance for a nomadic herder tribe, metal is at a premium.
I'm pretty sure he thinks he's setting a horribly jacked price.

BoneyM said:
You nod thoughtfully. "I will take this price back to my Clan," you say. "We will arrive in the second half of the coming spring, carrying both steel and silver."

Its a sensible caution, after all if its easier to take they'd take.

BoneyM said:
The Shaman nods, not at all taken aback by the warning. "May the Gods find your efforts entertaining."

Ranald: "Pass the popcorn."

BoneyM said:
Your early experiments with the Rune proved that all momentum that Branulhune possesses is lost (or possibly harnessed) when the Rune is activated, even if it's just 'flickered' for an instant. This should allow for more rapid changes in direction, especially since Kragg's signature Rune ensures that the blade always hits with sufficient force, making preserving momentum less important.

[Developing the momentum dump: Martial, 17+23=40.]

Oh cool, regenerative braking in the rune.
Between the two runes, the blade's momentum by the combat calculus is simultaneously zero or maximum.

Very Ulguy.

BoneyM said:
It turns out to be significantly easier said than done. You've spent a not inconsiderable fraction of your life learning, honing, and retaining techniques built on certain assumptions about physics and biology. Being able to make most of the momentum of a swing vanish with your blade undermines every one of those assumptions and you're forced to start from the very basics, running yourself through the basic drills and forms and forcing yourself to pay attention to what had become second nature. Something as simple as a pattern of alternating cuts uses a figure-eight pattern to let the momentum from one swing carry over to the next, which is much more efficient than using muscle force to negate that momentum and then start it afresh from a new direction, but is less efficient than vanishing the blade at the most downward point and having it reappear in your hands when they're in position to begin the next swing. Complicating matters further is the jerk of summoning an unmoving sword into moving hands, which takes a lot of getting used to.

In the end it takes you an entire month of self-study and adaptation to rebuild your sword style to incorporate this new technique, leaving no time to even scratch the surface of the other possibilities.

Depending on how fast the summon works, its basically rebuilding muscle memory to have your arms in the right places when you summon it the instant before a strike or block.

BoneyM said:
[Branarhune aspect developed: momentum dump. Remaining aspects: guard bypass, quick-draw, hand switching.]

Guard Bypass - Self evident though probably easier(and riskier) to learn in live combat. Need to flicker past a block without getting shredded(and probably extra maddening for those with godly parries like elves) in the same motion. Or I suppose, turning a parry into a sundering blow.

Quick-draw - There's no real reason to actually assume any kind of drawing posture other than habit and lesser weapons. Pop the blade when it'd terminate inside the enemy! Then let the Master Rune rip.

Hand Switching - It could be summoned in either hand, so you could get the dual-threat element of dual wielding without actually dual wielding. Its like fencing with someone with a pair of invisible swords that either of them can kill with.

BoneyM said:
It's been almost eight years since you constructed the enchantment in your robes, but even though said enchantment has prevented most of the wear and tear that clothing would typically see after that much daily use, it's still come time for you to replace it. Since the time you made it you've become a better Wizard, a better Enchanter, and your knowledge of the spell Aethyric Armour specifically has evolved into an effect that shields your muscles from fatigue even as it shields your skin from blades. Unfortunately the local spider-silk industry is still mired in technical difficulties, so with the Expedition rapidly approaching and filled with the perverse certainty that every one of those technical difficulties will evaporate as soon as you complete your new robes, you settle for wool.

Its the deja vu of wizard chic all over again. Wait for it forever, finally commit to bypassing it, and then its solved immediately after you no longer have a need.

BoneyM said:
Though you are quite pleased that you managed to get your hands on a bolt of naturally silver-grey wool, a rarity in this modern age of animal husbandry that has lead to pure-white sheep becoming the norm.

Meanwhile Mathilde continues to be the Highly Visible Grey Magister, and the shade sounds spectacular if contrasted against unnaturally dark shadows or smoke.

BoneyM said:
You spend some time consider the Helldrake scales that have been gathering dust ever since you acquired them on impulse in Barak Varr. The only mention of them you can find in your library is in the books on dragons, and even there more ink is spent on speculation on the nature of their relation to 'true' dragons than on their properties or inclinations. Still, the few paragraphs reveal to you that they're known primarily for being bred by the Elves of Naggaroth for war, and for such unbridled ferocity that their handlers are often unable to prevent them from attacking each other in the heat of battle. That gives you something to work with. Scales are, of course, a good fit for a component in defensive enchantment, but a nature of unflagging aggression is something you might be able to tap into for tirelessness.

Kind of wonder if we might have been able to get more out of it if we had researched the reagent first.
Oh well, if we wanted perfection we'd have to put the time in.

Maybe we'd loot something nice that fits.

BoneyM said:
[Drawing board: Learning, 10+28+5(Library: Enchantment)=43.]

That's the theory, anyway. You've come a long way since your first clumsy attempts to bind magic into permanent enchantment, and part of that is a healthy respect for planning ahead. The health of that respect begins to suffer quite a bit as every thaumaturgic equation runs right into a brick wall, as you try to put your instincts into numbers and run into mathematical insistence that what you're trying to do is impossible. Days evaporate in a blur of numbers and symbols and stacks of reference materials until you finally reach your limit and shove the stacks over in frustration.

I know that feel.
An uncomfortable amount of programming work that you try to logic out and plan out tends to wind up being done by winging it very hard

BoneyM said:
It isn't necessarily hubristic to bypass the preparations, you tell yourself. Putting magic to paper is a much less developed art than putting magic into reality. Every Magister of the Colleges is capable of a number of things that have no theoretical underpinnings proving them possible. There comes a time when a Wizard simply must put aside the books, start throwing magic around, and see what happens.

[In the workshop: 74+28+20(Room of Dawn and Dusk)+10(Enchanter)+5(Library: Enchantment)=137.]
[Integrating power stone: 48+28+20(Room of Utter Neutrality)+10(Enchanter)+2(Library: Power Stones)=108.]
[Integrating scales: 10+28+20(Room of Utter Neutrality)+10(Enchanter)+4(Library: Dragons, halved)=72.]

Ranald: "Hi. I am the imcomprehensible. Do not look behind the curtains, for I am shy."

BoneyM said:
Success, it is said, requires no explanation. It may not be required but an explanation would be nice, you think to yourself as you're torn between pride and frustration that you couldn't even begin to put to paper why those painstaking equations were proven so thoroughly wrong by the end results. Guided by instinct and Ulgu, you've managed to rather literally weave your unique form of Aethyric Armour into your robes, anchored by the Helldrake scales you've turned into pauldrons and powered by the pearl of Crystal Mist, taking the appearance of a jewelled brooch though it's quite firmly fastened in place.

Truth be told, you're not entirely happy with the individual elements; the Crystal Mist seems to be reasonably integrated as a power source but its full potential as a lodestone of altered reality has a lot more to offer, and the scales are about as well-utilized as an atlas being used to pin down one corner of a map.

So silver grey robes, big black and spikey pauldrons, and an iridescent pearl clasp. So nevermind its magical qualities, it LOOKS imposing. Like Gandalf decided to be a Dark Lord imposing.

Pretty neat but as Mathilde said, its like she could do better. Its not quite shoddy but its a rush job.
She doesn't know enough about the scale, she doesn't know enough about the Crystal Mist.

Hmm, I wonder if we could research our OWN enchantment to try and figure out how.

BoneyM said:
But the overall effect is much greater than the sum of its parts: any mundane blade would shatter long before it could mar the weave of the robe, and a tap of the brooch extends the effect around your full body while filling your muscles with vigour. The length it lasts is frustratingly inconsistent, seeming to vary based on time of day, the level of light around you, and another variable you suspect to be the phase of the moon, but even under the worst of conditions it lasts fifteen minutes - about five times the duration of the spell cast conventionally. And you're quite pleased with the imposing touch the scales add to your silhouette.

What this means is that Mathilde can sprint at full speed, jump around like a monkey on crack, and a whole bunch of normally unwise things without getting tired at all for all of a fight, or a big chunk of a battle.
And humans can REALLY haul ass in a dead sprint.

Normally more impressive since it also means full force blows with every hit without any consequences save for positioning, but the sword already covers that.

BoneyM said:
You return once more to your many chalkboards, and spend a day carefully copying everything down into notebooks before erasing the notes that lead to the eleven symbols you've reduced Skywalk to. You've got the most basic component of your 'Fog Path' spell completed, but there's more to a sword than just the blade. Even in this energy-efficient form it would take an unfeasible amount of power to create an entire surface for prolonged periods out of this spell, so you don't just need a mechanism to deploy it over and over, you need a way to identify where it must be deployed.

Spell optimization.
Wonder how common an approach this is - we don't really see a lot of the process other wizards take, but for Ulgu what we've seen seems to involve doing metaphor chaining more than building logic statements out of a force that considers logic optional.

BoneyM said:
[Identifying targets: Learning, 34+28+5(Library: Ulgu)+20(Coin)=87.]

You spend a great deal of time wrestling with a single question: can Ulgu itself recognize the difference between surfaces? It could tell a well-illuminated surface from a dim one, sure, but determining material properties is much more in the realm of Chamon, and determining properties of soil specifically is Ghyran. Rock and soil have no inherent properties that would resonate with Ulgu enough to use the Wind itself as the means of identifying where the spell is needed.

And that's the result you're stuck on until you break the question down a step further. Inspired, perhaps, by Panoramia's chatter about the many different components you'd previously lumped under a collective label of 'dirt', you realize that Ulgu can't tell whether a surface is stable, but it can tell whether a surface is uniform. The caster will still need to determine whether the surface itself is suitable for passage, but if pointed at a suitable surface, it can identify what isn't entirely of that surface. And by that mechanism, it can identify the trouble spots. Mud? Soil interrupted by water. Pothole? Stone interrupted by gravel. Ditch? Grass interrupted by air. Even thin ice - though Gods forbid the Expedition ever has to travel over ice - could be identified by Ulgu recognizing that the ice is interrupted, just under the surface, by water or air. And once identified, the nature of those interruptions - being neither one thing nor the other - means they can also act as anchor points for the overarching spell, from which the individual iterations of Skywalk can sprout.

Bolded - Ranald: "Hey, I managed to make your dates relevant to science!"

Its a pretty neat piece of efficiency work, the target areas act as anchor points, so they reduce the cost of establishing independent anchor points - you'd never need the spell to work on something that's NOT an anchor point unless you've literally charged off a cliff, at which point I don't think the spell is enough to looney tunes your way across a chasm.

BoneyM said:
[Implementing identifier: 94+28+5(Library: Ulgu)+20(Coin)=147.]

Days turn to weeks as you painstakingly construct this identification framework and make sure it stands up to any imaginable scenario. You visit Gotri and ask him and his Engineers of every obstacle they've ever encountered in getting a siege weapon from point A to point B. You visit Kragg and Thorek and ask if they've ever encountered any particularly difficult obstructions when it comes to getting their Anvils to commanding positions. Francesco contributes stories of wagon break-downs, Oswald his father's adventures with Steam Tanks, Soizic every hazard she has ever encountered or heard of that could lame a horse. At each stage you make tweaks to the design to cover more and more obscure edge cases.

Others already raised this but we've just asked everyone to grumble about their travel experiences.

I wonder how often Kragg gets asked to grumble at a topic and see the recipient take notes.
Even dwarves would be a little reluctant to unleash the full might of a grumbling Living Ancestor.

...and Thorek probably had said cliff obstacle happen at least once, knowing Azul.

BoneyM said:
Now all that stands before you and a finished spell is the final component: the way the spell travels from the Wizard to the anchor-points.

Hmm, rolling fog, rolling shadow, or more metaphorical, targeting the invisible, yet existent path of the travel plan?

BoneyM said:
The final project for the year is the second half of paper-writing for the results of the Warp Lightning experiments you undertook with Adela. Unfortunately, it proves to be far from a culminating high note, as the two of you struggle to bring to bear any insight that hasn't already been documented in the scarce few books the Colleges have on the subject. It's a struggle to fill an entire paper, but in the end you think the result just manages to be worth the effort it takes. It might not bring anything new to the table, but it does present a thorough and detailed description of something usually only seen in flashes across a battlefield. And perhaps more importantly, Adela seems much more satisfied than you with the end result, and practically radiates satisfaction at having put her name out there as a budding scholar of esoteric sciences - especially one linked to an already-established figure of some prominence.

[Mathilde paper writing: 16+28+4(Library: Skaven Warp Magic)=48.]
[Adela paper writing: 26+20+4(Library: Skaven Warp Magic)+10(Uncanny Memory)=60.]
[Observations on Warp Lightning, 2485. Subject: Rare, +1. Insight: Agreement, +0. Delivery: Competent, +0. Thorough, +1. Precious, +1. Secondary Author, -2. Total: +1.]

Hadn't struggled with a paper like this for a long ass time.
Nostalgic!

Boney · Sep 28, 2020

veekie said:
Not gold I suppose, too much heat, too hard to spend, anyone with something you could buy in gold could also seize the gold from a tribe of modest strength.

That and they're in a position to play with arbitrage. Silver is more valued in Cathay than it is in the Old World, so by asking for silver and then spending it in the east they get more value out of the same exchange.

knight_enemy · Sep 28, 2020

[X] [ROMANCE] Seek a romantic relationship with a second partner.

[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin

[X] Cython, to discuss the Gods of Kislev and the Kurgan.

veekie · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
That and they're in a position to play with arbitrage. Silver is more valued in Cathay than it is in the Old World, so by asking for silver and then spending it in the east they get more value out of the same exchange.

The best kind of trade is onewhere both are convinced they're ripping each other off huh?

NSMS · Sep 28, 2020

@BoneyM, if we tried to recreate our robes again (using the same types of materials, same spells, etc), how much easier would Mathilde find it? Also, would it be possible to 'recycle' our old robes when making a new set (i.e. pull the scales and power stone off for reuse) if we so chose? I'm not intending to vote for new robes anytime soon, to be clear, I'm just curious.

SuperSonicSound · Sep 28, 2020

Right I'm back.

So we have one step left on the fog path spell for next turn. No need to redo the robes as they are in the good enough category.

So next turn

Fog path
Overwork: Sword style
Join the expedition.
Coin: protector.

I've seen at least one person state they want the coin on gambler next turn for the Fogpath. Whilst I think that spell is important it's not worth the loss of protector for the expedition, if Karak Dum dwarves still stand we're going to need the protector at full blast to smooth over diplomatic pains that are guaranteed to exist.

Boney · Sep 28, 2020

NSMS said:
@BoneyM, if we tried to recreate our robes again (using the same types of materials, same spells, etc), how much easier would Mathilde find it? Also, would it be possible to 'recycle' our old robes when making a new set (i.e. pull the scales and power stone off for reuse) if we so chose?

- It would be possible to try the robes enchantment again, but trying to disentangle the scales and power stone risks destroying one or both of them.

If by 'recreate' you mean exactly the same, much easier. If you mean trying for an improved result, only slightly so.

SuperSonicSound · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
- It would be possible to try the robes enchantment again, but trying to disentangle the scales and power stone risks destroying one or both of them.

If by 'recreate' you mean exactly the same, much easier. If you mean trying for an improved result, only slightly so.

Some questions I have.

Do you need to be Mathilde to make use of the robe in its current state with the same effects?
Do you need to be a Grey wizard?

PseudoLurker · Sep 28, 2020

What happens to our old robes? Can we donate them to the College?

Boney · Sep 28, 2020

SuperSonicSound said:
Some questions I have.

Do you need to be Mathilde to make use of the robe in its current state with the same effects?
Do you need to be a Grey wizard?

Probably to at least one of those. Others might not find their musculature reacting quite so pleasantly to an infusion of Ulgu.

PseudoLurker said:
What happens to our old robes? Can we donate them to the College?

Mathilde will keep them in her closet as a back-up outfit. Wizards are a prideful sort and trying to shake favour out of them for decade-old used clothing is a tricky proposition.

Rafin · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
Mathilde will keep them in her closet as a back-up outfit. Wizards are a prideful sort and trying to shake favour out of them for decade-old used clothing is a tricky proposition.

And as a favorless donation to a freshly minted Journeyman with too little political acumen to count as a source of favor yet?

Or, could we lend it to a Journeyman during the expedition?

Alliterate · Sep 28, 2020

I don't see anything wrong with the plan for the old robes as stated.

Boney · Sep 28, 2020

Rafin said:
And as a favorless donation to a freshly minted Journeyman with too little political acumen to count as a source of favor yet?

Or, could we lend it to a Journeyman during the expedition?

Every Journeyman was taught the spell when they were an Apprentice, and should be working towards mastering it themselves instead of relying on someone else's enchantment to do it for them.

Rafin · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
Every Journeyman was taught the spell when they were an Apprentice, and should be working towards mastering it themselves instead of relying on someone else's enchantment to do it for them.

Of course. But the reason we made it is because it's without a duration restriction and zero casting risk. And I at least assume that most Journeymen aren't enchanters or even aspiring enchanters.

Jyn Ryvia · Sep 28, 2020

Obviously, we should move on to Multi wind robes after the trip.

No journeymanling will complain about have those as hand me downs!

Koraan · Sep 28, 2020

Vote still open? Seems so.

[X] [ROMANCE] Continue a monogamous relationship with Panoramia.
I think we could, eventually, go into polygamy... If we find a person both Mathilde and Panoramia interesting with. For now let's get to know her better.

[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
Curious about that Sorcerer's amulet.

[X] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.
It might be interesting, and clearly an one time opportunity.

[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
We didn't seen her, or even heard about her, in years. I'm quite curious how much she changes during that time.

[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
Halflings is fun, usually. Also maybe we can do it with Pan?

Btw, nothing with Pan outside of Duckling Club?

ja.b.n. · Sep 28, 2020

[X] [ROMANCE] Continue a monogamous relationship with Panoramia.

[X] Cython, to discuss the Gods of Kislev and the Kurgan.
[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] The Dolgan, to get to know the people of the western Steppes who will hopefully be feeding the Expedition.

Andres · Sep 28, 2020

[X] [ROMANCE] Continue a monogamous relationship with Panoramia.

TotallyNotEvil · Sep 28, 2020

Glau said:
Oh, can you imagine? Four years from now, and he's trying to bribe Mathilde to knife some grad student for being slow-stupid and preventing he, Qrech, from reaching his proper place as associate professor by whispering poison into the ears of the Deans about his position on the interactions between the ogre and the chaos dwarves.

And so the one force powerful enough to turn Qretch from the Horned Rat is an academic feud.

All according to keikaku.

Zero Gravitas · Sep 28, 2020

Rafin said:
Of course. But the reason we made it is because it's without a duration restriction and zero casting risk. And I at least assume that most Journeymen aren't enchanters or even aspiring enchanters.

Is a random Journeyman without sufficient favour to commission a robe like item worth the AP investment?

If Mathilde takes on an Apprentice then giving them a couple great items is one thing; but if Mathilde wants to enhance the Grey College as a whole by enchanting she's probably way better off becoming the new Turner since a decent Staff provides a significant +1 Magic boost.

storryeater · Sep 28, 2020

BoneyM said:
- It would be possible to try the robes enchantment again, but trying to disentangle the scales and power stone risks destroying one or both of them.

If by 'recreate' you mean exactly the same, much easier. If you mean trying for an improved result, only slightly so.

Something to keep in mind. We cannot mass produce it due to the way wizardry works, and Dwarfs cannot use magic, but if we ever find a strong heroic unit, giving it a replica of our suit could act as a force multiplier for our armies, considering how heroic units tend to pivot battles....

NSMS · Sep 28, 2020

Zero Gravitas said:
Is a random Journeyman without sufficient favour to commission a robe like item worth the AP investment?

If Mathilde takes on an Apprentice then giving them a couple great items is one thing; but if Mathilde wants to enhance the Grey College as a whole by enchanting she's probably way better off becoming the new Turner since a decent Staff provides a significant +1 Magic boost.

Agreed. There are too many apprentices and journeymen to go around crafting items for all of them, unless we intend to make it our new job. And as Zero's said, staffs would probably be the more generally useful tool to be making there. One-off or individual jobs are one thing, but we simply don't have the time to dedicate to becoming Q.

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Probably evil, unfortunately.

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal

Probably evil, unfortunately.