- Location
- Utrecht
Leading the retaking of K8P a pretty good attempt at compensation...
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Leading the retaking of K8P a pretty good attempt at compensation...
- Location
- Greece
By the way, I wonder for how long we should be helping Dwarfs... if we become instrumental to the reclamation of too many more Karaks, we may inadvertedly start a schism when some Dawi start worshipping Mathilde despite the fact she isn't an ancestor.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
That's the real big-brain way to disempower Tzeentch: Become the Ancestor God of Innovation and Change.
- Location
- Greece
Then people will start claiming we were Tzeench all along, because "obviously" we were planning to start a Dawi schism.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
Sounds like a great way to get GRUDGED for implying that an Ancestor God would be related to Chaos
- Location
- Utrecht
I don't think there's any risk of that happening. Dwarfs seem much less prone to superstition than humans, and the place of religion in society much more clearly defined.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Even Sigmar didn't get that position among dwarves, so I don't think there's any chance of Mathilde earning it.
- Location
- Greece
You say that, but if a Dawi golden age is brought back and we are obviously part of every step of the process... well... even the Dawi will start to wonder why Mathilde has done so much more so much more efficiently than the Ancestor's and their way.
And its not like Dawi are monolithic, chaos Dawi are a good example of how they may change religion for a reason very similar to the one I outlined. Major difference, of course, is that they are chaos while we (presumably) aren't, but that is immaterial in this scenario.
The very premise of my thread madness is that Mathilde may, in the future, do more than Sigmar by a volume at least.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Dwarves worship their ancestors. Worshiping somebody who isn't an Ancestor is like putting an apprentice at the head of your guild; they just don't meet those particular qualifications, no matter how wonderful they might be.
It's sort of like the question of trying to get people to worship us as a saint of Ranald while we're alive. If the prayers never go through then obviously we're not a saint, because making the prayers go through is what Saints do. Priests can call upon a particularly fitting saint in lieu of spell components sometimes, even.
Likewise, being an Ancestor God (a word that here refers to any worshiped ancestor, not merely the most ubiquitous and greatest of ancestor gods) means having responsibilities and powers. If somebody worshiping us can't take the Ancestor Worship talent and get us to haunt them whenever they spend fortune points then we aren't an Ancestor God.
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- Location
- Greece
Dawi also worship Hashut, being ancestor worshippers is clearly cultural. The reasons you delineated is why I fear a schism in the insane event where every Dawi considers us a hero, not a reason why it would never catch on.
- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
If we become immortal, we'll have significantly more time than Sigmar to accrue Dwarf Favor
Sigmar saved the High-King, but mostly did stuff for humans.
But she could be the not-Ancestor God of being and doing cool things (or realistically, being and doing concerning but useful things). Gods can be undeniably helpful, Mathildes are undeniable helpful, and it's tradition that you ask for help from a Mathilde when you're trying to accomplish the impossible (without atrocious casualties).
And hey, if you ask the non-dwarf god to do weird and uncomfortably non-dwarfy stuff, then the weird and non-dwarfy stuff gets done by a non-dwarf, as is right and proper, just as showing appreciation for an ally's help is.
It's a sort of transactional religion (not faith, or at least not faith in the human and gods sense, certainly faith in the dwarf and obligation sense) I can actually see working for the dwarfs.
- Location
- Utrecht
Well, since we're dead set on Mathilde becoming immortal, perhaps she could become Grombrindal's sidekick of sorts. Of course, it would require Ranald to make nice with Grombrindal so they can share us as an emissary...
Or maybe Grombrindal will steal us from Ranald?
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
*cries ugly Didn't Take Honoring The Ancestor Gods Perk tears*
(My not-so-secret hope was that we'd become the dwarf god of Rangers somehow.)
(My not-so-secret hope was that we'd become the dwarf god of Rangers somehow.)
Mathilde really wouldn't be a god of rangers. More a god for rulers who have set their sights on an impossible goal and are willing to make great personal sacrifices to see it done.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
As an aside to the present discussion, I keep thinking about Dammerlichtriter and the spell logic in the shadow steed and wonder if Mathilde will ever be eligible for an trait that pulls from the same underlying reasoning and naming conventions. <Shadow of the oncoming dawn> maybe. Because, twice now, she's been instrumental in the turning of the ages.
First in Stirland with a war that hit its climax with the fall of Castle Drakenhof, and now continues towards a taming of Sylvania that, while not inevitable, certainly seems more likely than not after her intervention in shutting down the college of Necromancy and calling in the Battle Wizards. More than that, one that also completely changed Stirland's relationship with magic such that instead of witch burning, now they're using the symbol of a wizard as a charm and ward.
Second again with the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks, where she first was there in the background and turned things from a foothold to a domain; later when she was there to take command at the crucial moment where everything happened, and won it all; and now has on her project list the third weapon intended such that the Karak can never fall the same way again.
We do not know if Karag Dum even holds the possibility of things ending better than they started yet, (as opposed to just better than canon Warhammer) but we do have the Waystone project looming in the distance even now, and if such succeeded it too would change the world.
Combine all that with the Ranald's themes of chance and revolution under the gambler and the protector and those of Ulgu with moments of transition: dusk, dawn, and the theorized bits on the passing of years and well...
It seems like a theme of "Herald of the ages' turning/the coming dawn" could be a good fit for Mathilde if events continue apace. Especially if we do eventually vote to move on from Karak Eight Peaks and set up somewhere else for a time once more and add a touch of "the wanderer who joins a cause for a time, and moves on when her work is done" to that mix.
I have no idea how that would work mechanically, be it an upgrade of Avatar, or an a more grounded reputation/call-to-adventure/morale thing to help drawing in diverse alliances to what, without her, would seem like hair brained schemes, but it definitely feels like a strong thematic basis for something.
First in Stirland with a war that hit its climax with the fall of Castle Drakenhof, and now continues towards a taming of Sylvania that, while not inevitable, certainly seems more likely than not after her intervention in shutting down the college of Necromancy and calling in the Battle Wizards. More than that, one that also completely changed Stirland's relationship with magic such that instead of witch burning, now they're using the symbol of a wizard as a charm and ward.
Second again with the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks, where she first was there in the background and turned things from a foothold to a domain; later when she was there to take command at the crucial moment where everything happened, and won it all; and now has on her project list the third weapon intended such that the Karak can never fall the same way again.
We do not know if Karag Dum even holds the possibility of things ending better than they started yet, (as opposed to just better than canon Warhammer) but we do have the Waystone project looming in the distance even now, and if such succeeded it too would change the world.
Combine all that with the Ranald's themes of chance and revolution under the gambler and the protector and those of Ulgu with moments of transition: dusk, dawn, and the theorized bits on the passing of years and well...
It seems like a theme of "Herald of the ages' turning/the coming dawn" could be a good fit for Mathilde if events continue apace. Especially if we do eventually vote to move on from Karak Eight Peaks and set up somewhere else for a time once more and add a touch of "the wanderer who joins a cause for a time, and moves on when her work is done" to that mix.
I have no idea how that would work mechanically, be it an upgrade of Avatar, or an a more grounded reputation/call-to-adventure/morale thing to help drawing in diverse alliances to what, without her, would seem like hair brained schemes, but it definitely feels like a strong thematic basis for something.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
That sounds like the sort of thing that'd be a title or some sort of reputation modifier rather than a trait. BoneyM's expressed in the past that traits that work by (essentially) warping reality along a theme are no-go, and has been cautious about traits that have broadly interpretable definitions (I think out of fear of players trying to shoehorn them in everywhere they can).
For, it sounds more like an epilogue. Roswita lead the cleansing of Sylvania and the Van Hals lead Stirland into a bright future, Belegar became High King and ushered in a new age for the dwarfs, and Mathilde becomes a possibly deific harbringer of new ages.
Clearly Mathilde needs to take a leaf out of Melkoth's book and perpetually confuse everyone around her on her actual height.
Pretty sure that wouldn't be necessarily dwarfy. Like they might respect Mathilde as a god just not worship her; just like Sigmar is a god but an Umgi god. Mathilde would probably one generation 'younger' than Sigmar (so if Sigmar were the manling equivalent of Grimnir Mathilde would be more like Thungni).
She still wouldn't qualify as a Dawi god because no matter how respected Mathilde is she wasn't there at the very beginning of the Dawi race.
I recognize it's a matter of canon doubt and uncertainty, but my instinct is against the idea that people "become" gods as opposed to having entities created that reflect what mortals think of them as being. No continuity of consciousness, is what I'm saying.
She wouldn't be an ancestor god, no. But I see no issues with the dwarfs going "Mathilde, can you fuck up those guys?", and then after Mathilde fucks up those guys, the dwarfs are like "Thank you Mathilde for fucking up those guys". If the Mathilde in question happens to be a god, then that's not so different from any other type of worship. Exclaiming how awesome Mathilde is might be a weird form of payment, but Mathildes are strange, and if that's what she wants...
Belegar at least has also taken some of her lessons to heart (which makes him very unhappy, but less unhappy than not having a Karak, or mostly dead citizens), so there's at least some of that too.
There's a logistic concern, whether dwarfs could reach a god Mathilde, but Warhammer also has corporeal gods, so that would be an option.
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Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Karak, Karag is the Khazalid word for 'volcano'.
- Pronouns
- It/They
Canon basically confirmed it tho?
End times is canon after all.
So canon that it started an entirely new game series.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It'd be reasonable if people were starting from zero, spiritually, but Necromancy does sort of hinge on everybody's existence having at least one "soul magnitude"'s worth of power, or whatever, which their ghost can be forced to use to provide the motive force for stuff.
Spells and Miracles from the lores of Morr and Shyish all heavily imply continuity of existence and consciousness both after death and after they've been accepted into the realm of Morr proper (which renders their body immune to necromancy), even going so far as to state that a spell simply might not work because the person the spell is contacting isn't feeling up to it emotionally.
With continuity roughly established, the idea that some ghosts might be more powerful than others is also quite reasonable; wizards prove the concept in life. Finally, seeing as how their new environment is defined by belief, the idea that you can influence that spiritual strength through worship and reverence also tracks.
It makes even more sense for saints and already-pious individuals who've made friends with the natives of the realm of souls. They'd have friends strong enough to protect their souls from destruction, and those friends would also be inclined to empower their trusted friends and servants more than they would random strangers.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Height.
No, that's also wrong. The best thing is to become a giant fuckoff magic book nerd dragon wizard.
And then attack and dethrone gods.
So you can turn them into pies.
Like, halflings are renowned for the quality of their pies, it's a noticeable part of what lazy thinkers might call "halfling culture". The only way that Mathilde, the Giant Fuckoff Magic Book Nerd Dragon Wizard is ever going to have a chance of winning the annual pie competitions are if she uses the best ingredients, and ground-up-gods are literally (*chef's kiss*) divine.
And if you're not in this for Mathide winning the annual pie competition, than I'm at a loss as to what the point of this quest even is.
Ulgu does incline some to showmanship, and what showperson does not want applause at the end of their performance?
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