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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Alratan said:
The elven divine avatars are sometimes described as demigods.
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I was thinking about them, but that's still in terms of power, I think, rather than in terms of descendence (except in-so far as all Elves supposedly descend from Isha and Kurnous)

Actually, that brings something to mind- Grombrindal, assuming he's actually Snorri Whitebeard, would be the direct son of Grugni, so I suppose he'd count (though again, all Dwarfs ultimately are supposed to descend from the Ancestor Gods- that's why they're the Ancestor Gods)
 
Mopman43 said:
I was thinking about them, but that's still in terms of power, I think, rather than in terms of descendence (except in-so far as all Elves supposedly descend from Isha and Kurnous)

Actually, that brings something to mind- Grombrindal, assuming he's actually Snorri Whitebeard, would be the direct son of Grugni, so I suppose he'd count (though again, all Dwarfs ultimately are supposed to descend from the Ancestor Gods- that's why they're the Ancestor Gods)
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Smednir and Thungni are both children of two other Ancestor Gods as well.

It's worth noting that there are hundreds or thousands of Ancestor Gods, as each clan has their own. There are only six universally worshipped Ancestor Gods though, who all dwarves revere in addition to their clan ancestors.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Right, but I think they both get full God status. (Like how Shallya and Mymidia are the children of Verena and Morr, but they're still gods, not demigods)
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Grombrindal seems like a full Ancestor God as well, at least as much as the Ancestor Gods of individual clans, if not more. The fact that he hung around the material plane longer isn't conclusive - after all, an elf married the god/spirit of the Reik river and she still misses him.
 
Alratan said:
Grombrindal seems like a full Ancestor God as well, at least as much as the Ancestor Gods of individual clans, if not more. The fact that he hung around the material plane longer isn't conclusive - after all, an elf married the god/spirit of the Reik river and she still misses him.
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Snorri Whitebeard had actually died, with his dying wish being that Dawi and Elves would always be friends. When Malekith, his own friend, caused the War of Vengeance, the sheer shame of his dying oath being broken brought him back from the Underearth as Grombrindal.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Snorri Whitebeard had actually died, with his dying wish being that Dawi and Elves would always be friends. When Malekith, his own friend, caused the War of Vengeance, the sheer shame of his dying oath being broken brought him back from the Underearth as Grombrindal.
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All the clan Ancestor Gods actually died, and many of them are interred in the holdings of their Clans and their physical remains and tombs are apparently used as part of their worship.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Snorri Whitebeard had actually died, with his dying wish being that Dawi and Elves would always be friends. When Malekith, his own friend, caused the War of Vengeance, the sheer shame of his dying oath being broken brought him back from the Underearth as Grombrindal.
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We don't actually 100% know that's true it's the hypothesised origin of Grombrindal, but not factually known to be 100% correct unless there's been something definitive released on the subject?
 
Voting closed, writing will begin after breakfast.

DragonParadox said:
Halfling gods are not real since halflings have no (or very little) warp presence which accounts for the lack of wizards and spellcasting priests.
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I'd be mighty careful with this assumption. Their warp presence is supposedly the same as Ogres and it didn't seem to stop them cozying up to the Great Maw.

Absoloot said:
Why is his beard so short? Don't they get so long that they reach their feet? That's why they braid and plait them, so they hang shorter.

I call shenanigans on this picture! There's no such thing as a Grey Shortbeard!
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Look at that curl on the bottom, it's curled up on itself and probably tucked into his collar.

IronFist said:
So... there's a book detailing a potential future on our Smut shelf?
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I can't blame Mathilde for filing that under fiction.
 
BoneyM said:
Voting closed, writing will begin after breakfast.



I'd be mighty careful with this assumption. Their warp presence is supposedly the same as Ogres and it didn't seem to stop them cozying up to the Great Maw.
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Where did you get that from out of interest?

In 2E it explicitly states halflings can't enter the apprentice wizard career path.



Halflings also have the above trait.

Ogres don't get that trait in the 2E monster splat book, so if we're going by 2e as tertiary canon for stuff that's not come up in the quest yet with no contradicting word of you then the base assumption does work out.
 
Interesting poke at magical theory with the halflings: if their gods are similar to human gods, then we have a pretty strong indication that gods are independent of the conceptions of their worshippers. IE, we can rule out the idea that gods are created by and molded by worship.

So we dont really know why worship is relevant to the gods. Which becomes a very interesting question.

I'd also say that if spell-casting priests are those who had the potential to become wizards, then we know that there isn't a fundemental difference between divine and magical energy.
 
Glau said:
Interesting poke at magical theory with the halflings: if their gods are similar to human gods, then we have a pretty strong indication that gods are independent of the conceptions of their worshippers. IE, we can rule out the idea that gods are created by and molded by worship.

So we dont really know why worship is relevant to the gods. Which becomes a very interesting question.
I'd also say that if spell-casting priests are those who had the potential to become wizards, then we know that there isn't a fundemental difference between divine and magical energy.
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On the nature of the gods, there are apparently meaningful numbers of humans that worship or at least pay their respects and believe in the existence of both dwarf and halflings gods, so even if the halfling gods don't exist as halfling created halfling gods, they may well exist as human created halfling gods.

On spellcasting wizards are priests, not really, it just tells us that whatever the spiritual mutation in question is is sufficiently broadly applicable.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Where did you get that from out of interest?

In 2E it explicitly states halflings can't enter the apprentice wizard career path.



Halflings also have the above trait.

Ogres don't get that trait in the 2E monster splat book, so if we're going by 2e as tertiary canon for stuff that's not come up in the quest yet with no contradicting word of you then the base assumption does work out.
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None of that says anything about the nature of Halfling gods. Also, game mechanics are not taken into account for quest canon.
 
BoneyM said:
None of that says anything about the nature of Halfling gods. Also, game mechanics are not taken into account for quest canon.
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Fair enough tome of salvation also makes mention of Haflings not being able to be wizards it's a bit more oblique there talking about how halflings have no talent for magic, there's also talk about their general non-pious nature. Couple that with the fact that none of the halfling gods are given divine lores but ones like Gundred do and I feel like there's reason to suspect the halfling gods even if they do exist are to weak to intervene in any meaningful way.

Edit: Ahh, the reason I think the ability to potentially become a spell caster matters is because it's tied to how I believe humans and other beings influence the warp.

Glau said:
I'd also say that if spell-casting priests are those who had the potential to become wizards, then we know that there isn't a fundemental difference between divine and magical energy.
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There pretty much has to be for quest canon otherwise our traits wouldn't make such a big call out to being able to sense divine energy.
 
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@BoneyM How usable is Mathilde's ability to see a person's emotional makeup through Windsight when applied to Halflings?

Glau said:
Interesting poke at magical theory with the halflings: if their gods are similar to human gods, then we have a pretty strong indication that gods are independent of the conceptions of their worshippers. IE, we can rule out the idea that gods are created by and molded by worship.

So we dont really know why worship is relevant to the gods. Which becomes a very interesting question.
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Maybe the Halfling gods are actually brought to life by Human beliefs about them.

Edit: Grey'd
 
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