Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm 100% in favor of Mathilde just going ham with all her masteries in the back lines. This is quite possibly the best situation for us personally as a hero unit that Mathilde will have in her entire life.

And I really, really don't think we need to worry about taking the credit from Kazrador - letting him command will boost his credit and somewhat lower ours, which is a-ok with me.
 
a line we really should do at some point in the aftermath,"really, a lot of the credit goes to clan mors" This really would not have been possible without them treating the dwarves like neutral mobs rather than a faction. christ, we really could almost sweep the board. take karag yar and scout and move into karag mhonar, and we're down to seven fronts again, and honestly, I think we can talk the dragon down dropping it to 4.

also, its kinda awesome that we can spend time doing land grabs rather than freaking out and bunkering down for the waaagh because of the superweapon we just finished.
 
Approach:
[ ] APPROACH: Ironhammer
Send in Clan Angrund, as the tip of the spear.
-Heaviest single units, tunnel fighting is to their advantage, because it becomes a series of 1v1 fight against dwarves in full runic gear who WILL cheese any individual fight.
-Best against Stormvermin.
-Worst against engines and traps


[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
Let the Throng of Karak Azul lead the way.
-Second heaviest units
-Veterans
-Kazador gives them Fear effect with the Thunderhorn.

[ ] APPROACH: Grimbrow
Send in Princess Edda's forces. What they lack in flashiness they make up for in discipline and tenacity.
-...why would we ever send in 'light' dwarf infanty into a close in tunnel brawl?

[ ] APPROACH: Nope.
Bugger this for a game of soldiers. Put up a cordon and let them rot down there.
-This costs time. The clock is ticking on the Karagril fight, the Rhyn fight and the Yar fight. We want this wrapped up before we need a reaction force anywhere else.

Manling involvement:
[ ] MANLING: Besieger Support
There's unlikely to be many clear sight-lines down there, but they'd certainly be able to take and hold chokepoints.
-Wasted in a maze of tunnels. Have them parked around the Trench perimeter.

[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
As ruthless as it sounds, humans dying instead of Dwarves is why they are here.
-In they go, they're not especially good OR bad at it.


[ ] MANLING: Both
Why are they being paid if they're not fighting? Send both down into the tunnels.
-Besiegers are wasted here.

[ ] MANLING: Neither
This is a battle men are not suited for.
-Eh, they can fight in there, its not their best terrain in poor light and close confines, but what battle of Eight Peaks is in open field?

Leadership:
[ ] LEAD: Lead from the Front
This will have you fighting alongside the leader of the forces chosen in the Approach: the Thane of Clan Angrund, King Kazador, or Princess Edda.
-Note that Warrior of Fog has likely shut off by this point, its now a straight brawl, which has Kazador being just as good.
-We can't use our Confusion(Mastery or not, its indiscriminate and best used while alone).
-That said its great for Favor.

[ ] LEAD: Central Command
Try to influence the battle however you can from the centre.
-Warrior of Fog is sealed by it being a straight brawl to the finish.
-We can MAP the trench, or try to.
-Not a lot of maneuvering left from this position,

[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.
-The Skaven are already afraid, theres fear musk spreading.
-Universal Confusion means that the close packed Skaven will savage each other.
-This is designed for our sword style: Close quarters fighting with a terrified opponent while outnumbered is what its designed for.
-Less Favor, but at this point I don't think we got any concerns about the credit spread.

Rangers can investigate three locations at a time. Scouting can be done alongside an attack to scout, skirmish, and prevent ambushes, or can be done to somewhere not currently being attacked to find out more about what is happening there.

[ ] Under-Karagril
-I don't think the Mors skaven here are going to change posture EXCEPT if the Red Fang stopped coming. Pass.

[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
-We need to know about the Red Fang situation.

[ ] Karag Zilfin
-We need to know how the Dragon and Skyre are getting along.

[ ] Karag Yar
-We got an update this turn, we can check back in an hour since they're stuck in.

[ ] Karag Rhyn
-We need to know how the Trolls and Greenskins are getting along.

[ ] Karag Mhonar
[ ] The Sentinels
-Mystery boxes, I think they can wait for now

[ ] Under-Caldera
-We need to support our assault.

Conclusion:

[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
[ ] Karag Rhyn
[ ] Under-Caldera
 
This is going to be a though battle, this is The Skaven hold in the Karak, if Gnawdwell is not in Skavenblight golfing running damage control or dead, he is here.
The hardest parts of the fight above? That is going to be all of it down here, choke points, barricades, guns, lightning machines.
Do not waste dwarf lives because of honor or songs or whatever, that is precisely the kind of attitude we are trying to beat out of them.
Hence why I'm voting for the option where we remove those before any dwarfs come within firing range.
 
Approach:
[ ] APPROACH: Ironhammer
Send in Clan Angrund, as the tip of the spear.
-Heaviest single units, tunnel fighting is to their advantage, because it becomes a series of 1v1 fight against dwarves in full runic gear who WILL cheese any individual fight.
-Best against Stormvermin.
-Worst against engines and traps


[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
Let the Throng of Karak Azul lead the way.
-Second heaviest units
-Veterans
-Kazador gives them Fear effect with the Thunderhorn.

[ ] APPROACH: Grimbrow
Send in Princess Edda's forces. What they lack in flashiness they make up for in discipline and tenacity.
-...why would we ever send in 'light' dwarf infanty into a close in tunnel brawl?

[ ] APPROACH: Nope.
Bugger this for a game of soldiers. Put up a cordon and let them rot down there.
-This costs time. The clock is ticking on the Karagril fight, the Rhyn fight and the Yar fight. We want this wrapped up before we need a reaction force anywhere else.

Manling involvement:
[ ] MANLING: Besieger Support
There's unlikely to be many clear sight-lines down there, but they'd certainly be able to take and hold chokepoints.
-Wasted in a maze of tunnels. Have them parked around the Trench perimeter.

[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
As ruthless as it sounds, humans dying instead of Dwarves is why they are here.
-In they go, they're not especially good OR bad at it.


[ ] MANLING: Both
Why are they being paid if they're not fighting? Send both down into the tunnels.
-Besiegers are wasted here.

[ ] MANLING: Neither
This is a battle men are not suited for.
-Eh, they can fight in there, its not their best terrain in poor light and close confines, but what battle of Eight Peaks is in open field?

Leadership:
[ ] LEAD: Lead from the Front
This will have you fighting alongside the leader of the forces chosen in the Approach: the Thane of Clan Angrund, King Kazador, or Princess Edda.
-Note that Warrior of Fog has likely shut off by this point, its now a straight brawl, which has Kazador being just as good.
-We can't use our Confusion(Mastery or not, its indiscriminate and best used while alone).
-That said its great for Favor.

[ ] LEAD: Central Command
Try to influence the battle however you can from the centre.
-Warrior of Fog is sealed by it being a straight brawl to the finish.
-We can MAP the trench, or try to.
-Not a lot of maneuvering left from this position,

[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.
-The Skaven are already afraid, theres fear musk spreading.
-Universal Confusion means that the close packed Skaven will savage each other.
-This is designed for our sword style: Close quarters fighting with a terrified opponent while outnumbered is what its designed for.
-Less Favor, but at this point I don't think we got any concerns about the credit spread.

Rangers can investigate three locations at a time. Scouting can be done alongside an attack to scout, skirmish, and prevent ambushes, or can be done to somewhere not currently being attacked to find out more about what is happening there.

[ ] Under-Karagril
-I don't think the Mors skaven here are going to change posture EXCEPT if the Red Fang stopped coming. Pass.

[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
-We need to know about the Red Fang situation.

[ ] Karag Zilfin
-We need to know how the Dragon and Skyre are getting along.

[ ] Karag Yar
-We got an update this turn, we can check back in an hour since they're stuck in.

[ ] Karag Rhyn
-We need to know how the Trolls and Greenskins are getting along.

[ ] Karag Mhonar
[ ] The Sentinels
-Mystery boxes, I think they can wait for now

[ ] Under-Caldera
-We need to support our assault.

Conclusion:

[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
[ ] Karag Rhyn
[ ] Under-Caldera
Even if we don't always agree, that you provide reasoning to all options so many times is still something to be admired...I'm not saying we don't agree, just you doing that is something awesome.
 
Something I had forgotten regarding Lead From The Front: Mathilde has been through the Trench before. She isn't working blind, the way the dwarves would be; she obviously doesn't know it as well as the skaven do, but she sure knows it better than anyone else.

Yeah, OK, I think that's best; murderblendering their backlines is great, but being able to tell the army we're sending down there where to go is better.
 
I say we go full horror monster on the Skaven since the main danger we'll face in these tunnels are going to be ambushes which should be pretty broken if skaven from the backline are running towards the front due to Mathilde scaring the fuck out of them
 
Something I had forgotten regarding Lead From The Front: Mathilde has been through the Trench before. She isn't working blind, the way the dwarves would be; she obviously doesn't know it as well as the skaven do, but she sure knows it better than anyone else.

Yeah, OK, I think that's best; murderblendering their backlines is great, but being able to tell the army we're sending down there where to go is better.
Have we been into the trench before? I know we have been to the cavern of stars but I don't remember it saying we went all the way into the trench.
 
Something I had forgotten regarding Lead From The Front: Mathilde has been through the Trench before. She isn't working blind, the way the dwarves would be; she obviously doesn't know it as well as the skaven do, but she sure knows it better than anyone else.

Yeah, OK, I think that's best; murderblendering their backlines is great, but being able to tell the army we're sending down there where to go is better.
My opinion on it is that she could bypass that with a MAP.
But the big deal here is that the Skaven are packed like sardines. Universal Confusion Mastery + Intangible would probably kill as many Skaven as Kazador COULD.

Have we been into the trench before? I know we have been to the cavern of stars but I don't remember it saying we went all the way into the trench.
Never been inside I think, they have floodlights around it, and its the bit we avoided previously due to being too well protected for a looting mission. I stand corrected
 
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Have we been into the trench before? I know we have been to the cavern of stars but I don't remember it saying we went all the way into the trench.
We have.

[Mapping the Trench: Intrigue, 87+19+4(Library: Skaven)=106]

You slip through the Skaven defences easily enough and enter the heart of the Karak. The Cavern of Stars was once a crystal cave that the Dwarves laboured for generations to transform its natural beauty to one of the most beautiful places in the Old World - or so go the stories. It was also the place where the Skaven first emerged in Eight Peaks, the floor falling away to reveal a sea of rats that poured in every direction, for the Cavern of Stars was the intersection of the Underway from the Citadel and five of the Karags. Now every crystal is long gone, and there's no telling why. Did they see some industrial purpose for them? Did they decide they like them, and a thousand rats each stole a piece of beauty for themself? Or did they shatter it simply because they didn't make it?

You shake the thought lose and climb down through the missing floor into the Trench. Your progress is slow as you avoid the teeming masses of Skaven going every which way, and there are some rooms and even entire segments you can't enter without breaking your Substance of Shadow on the sickly green light within, but over several days you're able to map the heart of Clan Mors' domain. And it's not just information you gather, as when you lurk for that long you learn where the most important parts are, and lingering in them allows, every so often, for opportunity to fall into your lap.

[Rolling...]

That the Skaven had an entire internal economy was still bizarre to you, but the proof is right before your eyes as in their chittering language they haggle and bicker and exchange tiny shards of warpstone as currency, the tension in the air not stopping them for a moment. Most everything that changes hands seems to be powered or enhanced by warpstone, and just because you might be unharmed by Dhar doesn't mean you're going to start carrying it around. Two adjoining stalls draws your attention and you watch in sickened fascination as a cart of fresh corpses is unloaded from one battle or another, and the corpses are hauled over to a slab for a freshly-sharpened cleaver to be applied. On one side, fresh meat is delivered to bubbling soup bowls and skewers danging above a fire; on the other, the armour the rat was wearing is piled up to be sold to some new wearer, still sticky with the blood of the previous owner. Hideous, yet efficient.

A particularly large rat is currently on the slab, and the rat that pulled the cart is having a loud altercation with the one that wields the cleaver over it. You approach, keeping your distance from the cooking fires and trying to angle yourself for a clearer view. You thought so - though it's covered with leather bindings to keep it in place on a body it was never meant to protect, that's definitely Dwarven craftsmanship. 'World's Edge Armour', the Skaven call it. Dwarves have a variety of names, each more outraged than the last. Gromril plate from a fallen Ironbreaker, clumsily adapted to protect a Stormvermin or Chieftain of note. No wonder the two rats thought it worth fighting over.

As the cart-puller learns why he probably shouldn't have started a fight with a Skaven already holding a cleaver, you cut the straps and roll the corpse out of the armour. By the time the butcher looks up from his latest work, you're gone, and so is the armour he just killed for.
 
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.

I don't think there is a better hint Boney can give us on what pick uses our stats and traits the best.
 
Something I had forgotten regarding Lead From The Front: Mathilde has been through the Trench before. She isn't working blind, the way the dwarves would be; she obviously doesn't know it as well as the skaven do, but she sure knows it better than anyone else.

Yeah, OK, I think that's best; murderblendering their backlines is great, but being able to tell the army we're sending down there where to go is better.
This would also let us know exactly where to strike while being a murderblender, but eh, it's your choice. Guess we'll just have to see how the vote goes.
 
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.

I don't think there is a better hint Boney can give us on what pick uses our stats and traits the best.
In fairness, while I support it what we're good for as an individual doesn't necessarily mean the same thing when being a commander is one of those things we might be good for.
 
I see two main courses. We either go into the Trench to spread Terror, to hurry it's fall, so we can turn to other matters, or we leave Mat in central command. This is the relevant part:
Now that you've got a moment of peace to pay attention, you realize that from the direction of the Underway path to Karag Zilfin, you can feel the faintest echoes of occasional bursts of Hysh. The dragon, you presume. And from the direction of Karag Rhyn, the familiar tang of a Waaagh engaged in battle. From the Broken Toof fighting the Crooked Moon? From either or both fighting an invasion of Trolls? From something else entirely?

Too many questions, not enough answers. But you know that waiting for all the answers means the answer you end up getting is 'you lost the war'.
If we leave Mat here, she can feel them, and scout ahead if something changes. If the greenskins stop fighting, she'll know it. Know to ready for it. If the Dragon stops pulsing, she'll know. The argument for leaving Mat in the middle is, Is the Mystery Hostile+Dragon Risk+Rhyn Battle resolved?

Mat would be in a position to react to all those. On the other hand, the Terror plan would let us end this fight. No more Trench. No more Mors, and let everyone here finish the job, so we could dig in, or pull back.
 
Approach:
[ ] APPROACH: Ironhammer
Send in Clan Angrund, as the tip of the spear.
-Heaviest single units, tunnel fighting is to their advantage, because it becomes a series of 1v1 fight against dwarves in full runic gear who WILL cheese any individual fight.
-Best against Stormvermin.
-Worst against engines and traps


[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
Let the Throng of Karak Azul lead the way.
-Second heaviest units
-Veterans
-Kazador gives them Fear effect with the Thunderhorn.

[ ] APPROACH: Grimbrow
Send in Princess Edda's forces. What they lack in flashiness they make up for in discipline and tenacity.
-...why would we ever send in 'light' dwarf infanty into a close in tunnel brawl?

[ ] APPROACH: Nope.
Bugger this for a game of soldiers. Put up a cordon and let them rot down there.
-This costs time. The clock is ticking on the Karagril fight, the Rhyn fight and the Yar fight. We want this wrapped up before we need a reaction force anywhere else.

Manling involvement:
[ ] MANLING: Besieger Support
There's unlikely to be many clear sight-lines down there, but they'd certainly be able to take and hold chokepoints.
-Wasted in a maze of tunnels. Have them parked around the Trench perimeter.

[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
As ruthless as it sounds, humans dying instead of Dwarves is why they are here.
-In they go, they're not especially good OR bad at it.


[ ] MANLING: Both
Why are they being paid if they're not fighting? Send both down into the tunnels.
-Besiegers are wasted here.

[ ] MANLING: Neither
This is a battle men are not suited for.
-Eh, they can fight in there, its not their best terrain in poor light and close confines, but what battle of Eight Peaks is in open field?

Leadership:
[ ] LEAD: Lead from the Front
This will have you fighting alongside the leader of the forces chosen in the Approach: the Thane of Clan Angrund, King Kazador, or Princess Edda.
-Note that Warrior of Fog has likely shut off by this point, its now a straight brawl, which has Kazador being just as good.
-We can't use our Confusion(Mastery or not, its indiscriminate and best used while alone).
-That said its great for Favor.

[ ] LEAD: Central Command
Try to influence the battle however you can from the centre.
-Warrior of Fog is sealed by it being a straight brawl to the finish.
-We can MAP the trench, or try to.
-Not a lot of maneuvering left from this position,

[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.
-The Skaven are already afraid, theres fear musk spreading.
-Universal Confusion means that the close packed Skaven will savage each other.
-This is designed for our sword style: Close quarters fighting with a terrified opponent while outnumbered is what its designed for.
-Less Favor, but at this point I don't think we got any concerns about the credit spread.

Rangers can investigate three locations at a time. Scouting can be done alongside an attack to scout, skirmish, and prevent ambushes, or can be done to somewhere not currently being attacked to find out more about what is happening there.

[ ] Under-Karagril
-I don't think the Mors skaven here are going to change posture EXCEPT if the Red Fang stopped coming. Pass.

[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
-We need to know about the Red Fang situation.

[ ] Karag Zilfin
-We need to know how the Dragon and Skyre are getting along.

[ ] Karag Yar
-We got an update this turn, we can check back in an hour since they're stuck in.

[ ] Karag Rhyn
-We need to know how the Trolls and Greenskins are getting along.

[ ] Karag Mhonar
[ ] The Sentinels
-Mystery boxes, I think they can wait for now

[ ] Under-Caldera
-We need to support our assault.

Conclusion:

[ ] APPROACH: Thunderhorn
[ ] MANLING: Mercenary support
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
[ ] Karagril-Karak Drazh Underway
[ ] Karag Rhyn
[ ] Under-Caldera
Can we call this: plan taking Branulhune back where we found it
 
Oh right, we already have a 100+ MAP of the trench, hopefully we show it to eve
Something I had forgotten regarding Lead From The Front: Mathilde has been through the Trench before. She isn't working blind, the way the dwarves would be; she obviously doesn't know it as well as the skaven do, but she sure knows it better than anyone else.

Yeah, OK, I think that's best; murderblendering their backlines is great, but being able to tell the army we're sending down there where to go is better.
But we can tell them, that's what the MAP is for, some quick pointers before sending them in is all they really need.
Kazador and the other leaders can check the best angle of approach, and the Rangers look for the places for ambushes and stealthy approaches.
 
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.

I don't think there is a better hint Boney can give us on what pick uses our stats and traits the best.
Less that, and more that this is no longer a battle of maneuver. Its a battle where every single room and tunnel is packed to maximum with Skaven, so our Tactics becomes inapplicable simply because theres no way to do it differently, once you go in its going to be fighting the Skaven in front of you until you run out or need to swap out.
 
[ ] LEAD: Sow Terror
This is the battle you were born for. Leave command in King Kazador's capable hands, become one with the darkness, and teach the Skaven the meaning of terror.

I don't think there is a better hint Boney can give us on what pick uses our stats and traits the best.
The only other time Mathilde was that clear about her preference in the quest options it was about our murder-mountain. I.e. "you know in your soul you want to burning shadows a mountain"
 
I'm fairly sure that the moment we rely on calculated orc flow rates going into the karak is the moment they all come in at once by cunningly forming a million orc humanoid pyramid.
 
Oh right, we already have a 100+ MAP of the trench, hopefully we show it to eve
But we can tell them, that's what the MAP is for, some quick pointers before sending them in is all they really need.
Kazador and the other leaders can check the best angle of approach, and the Rangers look for the places for ambushes and stealthy approaches.
I'm 90% sure we did that already. We did, after all, show them that stuff in the same update that got the World's Edge Armour, and Kazador may not be a member of the Council but he's still at that level in terms of VIPness.
 
So, my lowly tactical and strategic opinions,

We can scout three locations, and there are three very good locations to scout, the battle between Eshin and Mors at Karag Yar, the Dragon vs everything in Karag Zilfin, and whatever is going on in Karag Rhyn. What's going down in Rhyn, what's the dragon doing (always something useful to know), and knowing when and how the Skaven civil war will end. Those are the three hotspots right now and knowing more about them will be key.

For leadership, Mathilde would be best leading from the front or sowing terror, and the key differences would be whether we want recognition (i.e Favour) on plus of our bonuses for the troops we choose to lead, or building our personnel legend and maybe getting some last-minute Skaven looting in.

For mercs, let's hold back on the Beseigers, but send in the rest of the mercs. Baz's men have earned their keep so far, but will prove to be extremely useful fighting the Orks when they show up, more so than they will in the tunnels.

As for the leading force...using the Izor throng as the lead element is a bit cruel. They're civilian militia. And Angrund is our special elites. I think it's best to let Kazador and Karak Azul's throng lead the way.
 
Wait, where are we getting the density of the skaven in the Trench?
When we scouted it, it was described as 'teeming with Skaven'

"You shake the thought lose and climb down through the missing floor into the Trench. Your progress is slow as you avoid the teeming masses of Skaven going every which way,"
 
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