Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Thomasfoolery said:
The main issue I see with leaving Under-karagril is if the orcs crack Mors then they're going to be pressing upper karagril hard, considering their reconquest kick.

It's tough to see the urgency in doing so yeah.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I came here to say this. If and when the endless Greenskin Waaagh breaks through Mors lines, then the rest of Karagril is in the firing line, given we understand it to be their objective.

Further, I think the under-Karagril -to- Under Lhune underway passage is also vulnerable, especially as
1. We moved the under-Lhune artillery and
2. It was only guarded by relatively poorly armed Clan Huzkul.

Whatever we do, not losing ground is the most important.
Can we move the under Lhune artillery back? The next attack probably won't be coming from overland.
 
Last edited:
Thomasfoolery said:
If we strike the Under-caldera without somehow countering Mors in Under-Karagril I think they're very likely to just run and let the orcs in rather than sit and wait for the noose to tighten.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Alliterate said:
I came here to say this. If and when the endless Greenskin Waaagh breaks through Mors lines, then the rest of Karagril is in the firing line, given we understand it to be their objective.

Further, I think the under-Karagril -to- Under Lhune underway passage is also vulnerable, especially as
1. We moved the artillery and
2. It was only guarded by relatively poorly armed Clan Huzkul.

Whatever we do, not losing ground is the most important.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
OK, yeah, I see the argument for kicking Mors's ass and then garrisoning under-Karagril against the orcs so they don't break through.
 
There is still a chance we can lead the trolls through Mhonar and have them strike the Under-Caldera, that's the last "wild card" we have available and should definitely bring them into the fight if at all possible.
 
HeWhoAdds said:
Would you consider sending the Undumgi at Kvinn-Wyr? WoG is that we could occupy it without much fighting and the Undumgi are the force we'll miss the least in the tunnels.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Undumgi represent a 50% increase on our Citadel force's fighting strength (12k -> 18k). Given the numbers Mors has, dropping so much manpower seems silly, and I've posted extensively about why I don't think the circumstances that make pikes a weaker choice apply here if you search my post history. There's also no rush to take Kvinn-Wyr; like, if we miss the chance to take it now, big deal? It's not like skaven will be breeding inside it.
 
Last edited:
Arbit said:
I think we should take the Under-Citadel and let Kazador lead a raid into the Under-Caldera.
Taking Under-Karagril doesn't seem to be a good idea, we would have to defend against a possible Clan Mors counterattack and the Red Fang Orcs, without having Grapecannons at hand.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I wonder if we could move the grapecannons to under-Karagil and then use them to bottle up the orcs.



Sending a force overland to finish clan Eshin whilst they're weak on the third 'turn' might also very well be worth it.
 
Okay based on the information:
-We don't want to hit Under-Karagril, Karak Drazh is attacking it HARD, better to let the Skaven soak the casualties than for us to.
-We want to hit Kvynn-Wyr. Its uncontested, we just need to move siege engines in with a garrison force. This is basically the only way we're going to pull it off without Irondrakes and a Slayer Throng.
-We want to hit Clan Mors within the next 2 hours, but we want to hit as hard as possible in that instant.


...actually, does anyone think cleaving Clan Mors into two unconnected portions might be to our benefit?
They're committed FULLY into Eshin and Karagril. And in Karagril only in one direction. That means the Caldera is basically empty because nobody but dwarves can attack it and obviously dwarves wouldn't do it.
Take the wide open Caldera, fortify the perimeter while Mors is too stuck in to Yar and Karagril to do anything about it.
 
veekie said:
Okay based on the information:
-We don't want to hit Under-Karagril, Karak Drazh is attacking it HARD, better to let the Skaven soak the casualties than for us to.
-We want to hit Kvynn-Wyr. Its uncontested, we just need to move siege engines in with a garrison force. This is basically the only way we're going to pull it off without Irondrakes and a Slayer Throng.
-We want to hit Clan Mors within the next 2 hours, but we want to hit as hard as possible in that instant.


...actually, does anyone think cleaving Clan Mors into two unconnected portions might be to our benefit?
They're committed FULLY into Eshin and Karagril. And in Karagril only in one direction. That means the Caldera is basically empty because nobody but dwarves can attack it and obviously dwarves wouldn't do it.
Take the wide open Caldera, fortify the perimeter while Mors is too stuck in to Yar and Karagril to do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Taking the Caldera would be folly. We'd be in the middle of a mosh pit then and if you think Mors won't turn tail and come down on us like the fist of an angry god for attacking their warren, you're underestimating them--the Skaven can absorb any amount of combat casualties, they can't absorb losing their ability to replenish those. Losing half of their attacking force to Eshin but saving their breeders means they lost nothing of value and will be back to full strength at the end of the strategic turn.

But sacking it and terminating Mors' ability to recoup in no-time from combat losses would be the biggest strategic move we could make here, a high speed strategic raid-in-force could potentially do it as long as Sleek is busy fighting Eshin.
 
Last edited:
I think we have one discretionary offensive force, while the other main body needs to be ready to defend our vulnerable front- Karagril, should the seemingly near endless Red Fang break through.

That means yes, we can achieve the limited objective of attacking under-Citadel, but also starting a raid or more to the under-Caldera leaves our defensive lines too thin.

That does unfortunately leave the aggressive king Kazador spoiling for a fight... and he's in the wrong mountain to attack the under-Citadel.

Also, I edited this in before, but what about moving the defensive artillery we moved to the Karagril surface defenses, back to the Lhune underway?
 
Alectai said:
Taking the Caldera would be folly. We'd be in the middle of a mosh pit then and if you think Mors won't turn tail and come down on us like the fist of an angry god for attacking their warren, you're underestimating them--the Skaven can absorb any amount of combat casualties, they can't absorb losing their ability to replenish those. Losing half of their attacking force to Eshin but saving their breeders means they lost nothing of value and will be back to full strength at the end of the strategic turn.

But sacking it and terminating Mors' ability to recoup in no-time from combat losses would be the biggest strategic move we could make here, a high speed strategic raid-in-force could potentially do it as long as Sleek is busy fighting Eshin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, in the hypothetical event this happens, Clan Angrund shouldn't be involved. They want to reconquer, after all.
 
veekie said:
...actually, does anyone think cleaving Clan Mors into two unconnected portions might be to our benefit?
They're committed FULLY into Eshin and Karagril. And in Karagril only in one direction. That means the Caldera is basically empty because nobody but dwarves can attack it and obviously dwarves wouldn't do it.
Take the wide open Caldera, fortify the perimeter while Mors is too stuck in to Yar and Karagril to do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If we can take the Caldera we should also take the weakened Mors forces in Yar before they can fortify.

Then we sort of need to replace the remaining Mors in Karagil since their morale is going to plummet if they're defeated on all other fronts.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
I wonder if we could move the grapecannons to under-Karagil and then use them to bottle up the orcs.



Sending a force overland to finish clan Eshin whilst they're weak on the third 'turn' might also very well be worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eshin surviving is actually a good thing now, as it would either force them to keep fighting Mors (2 is war) or have them stop attacking us (3 is peace).

Either way we want Mors to do the fighting there.
veekie said:
Okay based on the information:
-We don't want to hit Under-Karagril, Karak Drazh is attacking it HARD, better to let the Skaven soak the casualties than for us to.
-We want to hit Kvynn-Wyr. Its uncontested, we just need to move siege engines in with a garrison force. This is basically the only way we're going to pull it off without Irondrakes and a Slayer Throng.
-We want to hit Clan Mors within the next 2 hours, but we want to hit as hard as possible in that instant.


...actually, does anyone think cleaving Clan Mors into two unconnected portions might be to our benefit?
They're committed FULLY into Eshin and Karagril. And in Karagril only in one direction. That means the Caldera is basically empty because nobody but dwarves can attack it and obviously dwarves wouldn't do it.
Take the wide open Caldera, fortify the perimeter while Mors is too stuck in to Yar and Karagril to do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Definitely agree with both taking Wyr with minimal forces and taking the Caldera from Mors, we should let the fight in Karagril-Drahz keep going to it's conclusion and then either stop the remaining Mors or block the orc advance, with sprinkled assassination to demoralize them.
 
All right, I swear I'm going to bed right after this, but since I'll be missing the end of the moratorium, here are two plans:

[ ] Plan Leaping After Looking
-[ ] Advance from the Citadel into the Under-Citadel, the eastern fringe of Clan Mors' territory, with: Clan Angrund, Karak Izor immigrants, The Undumgi, Braganza's Besiegers
-[ ] Mathilde will command the attack: Under-Citadel
-[ ] Leave the Bolt Throwers in place.
-[ ] Under-Citadel
-[ ] Under-Caldera
-[ ] Karag Mhonar

Punch Under-Citadel out, scout Under-Caldera, scout Karag Mhonar to get eyes on wtf the trolls are doing. If it turns out the answer is "dying," we can reposition the Kvinn-Wyr bolt throwers and take that mountain for free, but there's no rush to do it yet. Remember: our chief objective is weakening Mors. Goal next turn is to attack Under-Caldera from Under-Citadel and Karagril.

[ ] Plan Secure The Basements
-[ ] Advance from the Citadel into the Under-Citadel, the eastern fringe of Clan Mors' territory, with: Clan Angrund, Karak Izor immigrants, The Undumgi, Braganza's Besiegers
-[ ] Advance from Karagril into Under-Karagril, the former territory of Clan Moulder, with: Throng of Karak Azul, Border Prince mercenaries, Clan Huzkul
-[ ] Mathilde will command the attack: Under-Citadel
-[ ] Leave the Bolt Throwers in place.
-[ ] Under-Citadel
-[ ] Under-Caldera
-[ ] Under-Karagril

Punch Under-Citadel out, scout Under-Caldera, same as before. Also punch out Under-Karagril to ensure that Mors doesn't cut and run when we hit Under-Caldera and result in a Red Fang breakthrough into Karagril or under-Lhune. Plan next turn is to shift as much grapecannon down here as possible to hold the line against Karak Drazh with the Border Prince mercs while the dwarves help us take under-Caldera.

Between the two plans, I think I prefer Leaping After Looking, but I figured I'd throw #2 out there.

And now to sleep, zzz thanks for the update @BoneyM, your writing is worth staying up to 3 AM on a worknight.
 
Regarding the trolls, we have to know what they are doing ASAP.

If they are fighting and dying, leave them be.
If they are winning or gathering, consider that taking Wyr would force them to move elsewhere, funneling them to the caldera or some of our other enemies (emerge as the Waaagh arrives, or go for the dragon) are huge potential wins for us.
 
Last edited:
Alliterate said:
I came here to say this. If and when the endless Greenskin Waaagh breaks through Mors lines, then the rest of Karagril is in the firing line, given we understand it to be their objective.

Further, I think the under-Karagril -to- Under Lhune underway passage is also vulnerable, especially as
1. We moved the under-Lhune artillery and
2. It was only guarded by relatively poorly armed Clan Huzkul.

Whatever we do, not losing ground is the most important.
Can we move the under Lhune artillery back? The next attack probably won't be coming from overland.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To my understanding, the defense of Undergril is the defense of Lhune. We can hop down into Undergril behind the Mors lines and bottle them up with the Karak Drazh attackers. Rather than moving the Grapecannon back to Lhune, we just need to move them down to reinforce this bottling. Heck, have Huzkul join Kazador to man them.

If anyone has a different understanding, please speak up.
 
veekie said:
We want to hit Kvynn-Wyr. Its uncontested, we just need to move siege engines in with a garrison force. This is basically the only way we're going to pull it off without Irondrakes and a Slayer Throng.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...why? We don't need the clay, it's no great threat, we've barely got enough troops to hold all we currently hold, and Clan Angrund is still here.

Leave the trolls.
 
Alectai said:
Taking the Caldera would be folly. We'd be in the middle of a mosh pit then and if you think Mors won't turn tail and come down on us like the fist of an angry god for attacking their warren, you're underestimating them--the Skaven can absorb any amount of combat casualties, they can't absorb losing their ability to replenish those. Losing half of their attacking force to Eshin but saving their breeders means they lost nothing of value and will be back to full strength at the end of the strategic turn.

But sacking it and terminating Mors' ability to recoup in no-time from combat losses would be the biggest strategic move we could make here, a high speed strategic raid-in-force could potentially do it as long as Sleek is busy fighting Eshin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hit it, see how Mors ia doing after events. If we can keep it we do, but a raze and run is fine too.
 
Alliterate said:
...why? We don't need the clay, it's no great threat, we've barely got enough troops to,defend all we currently hold, and Clan Angrund is still here.

Leave the trolls.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The trolls would be a LOT harder and costly to push out once they go back in. Kvynn wyr has no hostile borders. We can hold it with a token force to keep the trolls from reentering.

Punt them into Yar if we can. All you can eat Skaven buffet
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top