Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
No one is arguing that. We are arguing against the notion that it would somehow make us more vulnerable to possession which a few debaters are adamantly arguing despite WOG.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Planet Earth
Fair point I did not notice that post. Most people do not claim it's the primary benefit.
Note that we don't get traits USEFUL in things we've done.
We get traits making it easier to replicate some of our achievements in the arc.
So, examining vagaries of possession, what is possession? We have a Priest of Gazul on a nat 100, explain it: Possession keeps your mind and body, but your soul is replaced. Its very distinct.
Avatar has nothing to do with possession. Possession was our uninformed term to explain being a conduit for divine power, and has expressedly been ruled out.
So what did we do as a conduit for divine power?
-Ranald -> Mathilde - Granted us good luck as a favored worshipper. Attracted cats. Converted and physically transfigured a hostile shrine. Attracted Wolf. Patted us on the back.
--Most of this was uncontrolled, at most we let Ranald know that his attention would be very helpful now thanks and he did the rest. Or did not do anything, we can't tell IC.
-Mork -> Mathilde - Mork filled us with Divine Power and temporarily granted Thews worthy of Conan The Barbarian as his temporary Avatar. As a side effect, we also started speaking in his voice and got really angry.
--This was entirely uncontrolled, and accidentally solicited. It has been confirmed that its impossible unless you just perfectly sync up with Mork for that instant. The hole in our soul has nothing to do with it other than Mork having left it when he barged in by force.
--We're also very unlikely to see it happen again because...
-Mathilde -> Ranald - This is the deed that got us the trait as a reward rather than a penalty. We served as a conduit for power, taking it from Mork, sending it to Ranald. The energy passed through us like we're a pipe, we did not shape divine power in either Mork or Ranald's flavors. We used our soul of Ulgu as a pipe, transferring the contents without being affected by it, allowing Ranald's far larger soul to digest it into his flavor..
--This was controlled. We did it on purpose, and with Avatar will be more able to do it again, without as much random chance involved.
-Ranald -> Mathilde - This is the reward. He used our connection as worshipper and god to give us a divine artifact, again, passing through Mathilde to manifest in her presence.
--This was mutual consent. He took the haul and gave us the cut as the middlewizard. Most gods, even the Chaos Gods, can't generally speaking, manifest divine artifacts just anywhere.
Why does this matter?
Mathilde has learned how to deliberately send warp energy through her connection to Ranald as Worshipper and God.
This means that she's somewhat more resistant to possession, when a warp critter tries to punch a hole into her soul to wear her like a sockpuppet, she now has the option to send the critter directly to Ranald to deal with, rather than the normal option of "Clench really hard and hope it gives up" or "Clench really hard and try to stab its physical manifestation".
What does it matter to her as a wizard?
If she can send and recieve energy to her god, without being a priest and directly channeling his Lore, then she could potentially learn to do two basic things that can be achieved using what she had already done:
-Ground out excess magical energy by sending it along the conduit instead of the ground. I would not recommend trying this with more difficult spells yet, because she's had a lot of practice doing this with the ground and only the one time attempt doing it with her divine conduit.
-Pour out the raw energy of Ranald into her self or her surroundings. She's not a priest with the divine lore to shape it herself, but if Ranald himself wants to do something and Mathilde is in the right place, she can open the door to let HIM do his work. Or spawn cats everywhere. He seems the type.
Not that cats everywhere is a bad idea in Eight Peaks...
We get traits making it easier to replicate some of our achievements in the arc.
So, examining vagaries of possession, what is possession? We have a Priest of Gazul on a nat 100, explain it: Possession keeps your mind and body, but your soul is replaced. Its very distinct.
Avatar has nothing to do with possession. Possession was our uninformed term to explain being a conduit for divine power, and has expressedly been ruled out.
So what did we do as a conduit for divine power?
-Ranald -> Mathilde - Granted us good luck as a favored worshipper. Attracted cats. Converted and physically transfigured a hostile shrine. Attracted Wolf. Patted us on the back.
--Most of this was uncontrolled, at most we let Ranald know that his attention would be very helpful now thanks and he did the rest. Or did not do anything, we can't tell IC.
-Mork -> Mathilde - Mork filled us with Divine Power and temporarily granted Thews worthy of Conan The Barbarian as his temporary Avatar. As a side effect, we also started speaking in his voice and got really angry.
--This was entirely uncontrolled, and accidentally solicited. It has been confirmed that its impossible unless you just perfectly sync up with Mork for that instant. The hole in our soul has nothing to do with it other than Mork having left it when he barged in by force.
--We're also very unlikely to see it happen again because...
-Mathilde -> Ranald - This is the deed that got us the trait as a reward rather than a penalty. We served as a conduit for power, taking it from Mork, sending it to Ranald. The energy passed through us like we're a pipe, we did not shape divine power in either Mork or Ranald's flavors. We used our soul of Ulgu as a pipe, transferring the contents without being affected by it, allowing Ranald's far larger soul to digest it into his flavor..
--This was controlled. We did it on purpose, and with Avatar will be more able to do it again, without as much random chance involved.
-Ranald -> Mathilde - This is the reward. He used our connection as worshipper and god to give us a divine artifact, again, passing through Mathilde to manifest in her presence.
--This was mutual consent. He took the haul and gave us the cut as the middlewizard. Most gods, even the Chaos Gods, can't generally speaking, manifest divine artifacts just anywhere.
Why does this matter?
Mathilde has learned how to deliberately send warp energy through her connection to Ranald as Worshipper and God.
This means that she's somewhat more resistant to possession, when a warp critter tries to punch a hole into her soul to wear her like a sockpuppet, she now has the option to send the critter directly to Ranald to deal with, rather than the normal option of "Clench really hard and hope it gives up" or "Clench really hard and try to stab its physical manifestation".
What does it matter to her as a wizard?
If she can send and recieve energy to her god, without being a priest and directly channeling his Lore, then she could potentially learn to do two basic things that can be achieved using what she had already done:
-Ground out excess magical energy by sending it along the conduit instead of the ground. I would not recommend trying this with more difficult spells yet, because she's had a lot of practice doing this with the ground and only the one time attempt doing it with her divine conduit.
-Pour out the raw energy of Ranald into her self or her surroundings. She's not a priest with the divine lore to shape it herself, but if Ranald himself wants to do something and Mathilde is in the right place, she can open the door to let HIM do his work. Or spawn cats everywhere. He seems the type.
Not that cats everywhere is a bad idea in Eight Peaks...
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Dear god the fact we have only two is killing me...granted I'd probably be saying the thing if we had three, but, y'know.
I suppose my main concern is that we won't have enough ability to manage this whole shindig via lack of ability or lack of delegation power (via subordinates), either due to not having them or not having the appropriate capability to use them.
It feels like we've gone from one (awesome) part of a big machine to one machine working alongside others and lacking parts.
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You know, I would put it like this.
Mathilde has already been an avatar. Her gaining the trait would just be her understanding her experience better.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
To be fair, that's someone not voting for avatar. Different party.
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Updated Dramatis Personae page. New information below for convenience.
King Belegar Ironhammer, King of Karak Eight Peaks
Armament: The Hammer of Angrund (aka the Ironhammer), the Shield of Defiance, the Crown of the Silver Depths
Diplomacy: 12 - Belegar relies on actions rather than words to inspire others.
Martial: 20 - Belegar is still developing as a warrior, but his skill with a hammer is growing into a legend.
Stewardship: 18 - Belegar's grasp of logistics, rationing, and quid pro quo has been a boon to his reclamation.
Intrigue: 12 - Though it does not come naturally to Dwarves, Belegar is developing his sneakier side.
Piety: 10 - Belegar prefers to leave the Ancestor Gods to those that dedicate their lives to them.
Learning: 14 - Belegar has a sharp mind, but has spent his life focused on reclaiming his birthright rather than developing his intelligence.
Clan Angrund: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Eight Peaks.
Duellist: Belegar is more skilled in one-on-one combat than in commanding an army.
Goraki: Most Dwarves consider Ranger tactics - ambushes, trickery, assassinations and sabotage - to be distasteful. This Dwarf has embraced them.
Non-Traditional: This Dwarf pushes back against tradition, putting the lives of his subjects ahead of the traditions of his ancestors.
Prince Kazrik, Diplomat of Karak Eight Peaks
Apprentice Runesmith: Kazrik spends some of his time learning Runesmith from Thorek Ironbrow. While not quite a breach of tradition, it is unusual for royalty to study the Runes.
Clan Donarkhun: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Azul.
Sharpshooter: Many years of hunting with his father have made Kazrik a crack shot with his crossbow.
Dreng, Marshal of Karak Eight Peaks
Clan Hazkal: This Dwarf is of the Warrior Clan founded by the wanderers, exiles and expatriates that fought for the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks.
Hammerer: Dreng was one of the Royal Guards of King Belegar.
Ranger: Dreng was a Ranger, the scouts and saboteurs of the Dwarven Throngs.
Prince Gotri Stoneheart, Sky-Thane of Karak Eight Peaks
Clan Stoneheart: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Zhufbar.
Master Engineer: Gotri has attained the rank of Master in the Guild of Engineers.
Pilot: Gotri is skilled at flying the Gyrocopter and all its variations.
Radical: This Dwarf holds views that fly in the face of tradition.
Princess Edda Grimbrow, Steward of Karak Eight Peaks
Ambitious: Edda has her sights set on becoming a Queen.
Clan Grimbrow: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Izor.
Organized: Edda is extremely efficient at establishing, controlling, and keeping track of large projects.
Gunnars, High Priest of Karak Eight Peaks
Clanless: Either by birth or by choice, this Dwarf does not belong to any Clan.
Priest of Gazul: Gunnars is sworn to the Ancestor God of the Dead, Gazul.
Swordsman: In emulation of Gazul, Gunnars is one of the few Dwarves to wield a sword.
Witch Hunter: Gunnars belongs to the Order of the Guardians, which hunts necromancers and vampires.
King Belegar Ironhammer, King of Karak Eight Peaks
Armament: The Hammer of Angrund (aka the Ironhammer), the Shield of Defiance, the Crown of the Silver Depths
Diplomacy: 12 - Belegar relies on actions rather than words to inspire others.
Martial: 20 - Belegar is still developing as a warrior, but his skill with a hammer is growing into a legend.
Stewardship: 18 - Belegar's grasp of logistics, rationing, and quid pro quo has been a boon to his reclamation.
Intrigue: 12 - Though it does not come naturally to Dwarves, Belegar is developing his sneakier side.
Piety: 10 - Belegar prefers to leave the Ancestor Gods to those that dedicate their lives to them.
Learning: 14 - Belegar has a sharp mind, but has spent his life focused on reclaiming his birthright rather than developing his intelligence.
Clan Angrund: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Eight Peaks.
Duellist: Belegar is more skilled in one-on-one combat than in commanding an army.
Goraki: Most Dwarves consider Ranger tactics - ambushes, trickery, assassinations and sabotage - to be distasteful. This Dwarf has embraced them.
Non-Traditional: This Dwarf pushes back against tradition, putting the lives of his subjects ahead of the traditions of his ancestors.
Prince Kazrik, Diplomat of Karak Eight Peaks
Apprentice Runesmith: Kazrik spends some of his time learning Runesmith from Thorek Ironbrow. While not quite a breach of tradition, it is unusual for royalty to study the Runes.
Clan Donarkhun: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Azul.
Sharpshooter: Many years of hunting with his father have made Kazrik a crack shot with his crossbow.
Dreng, Marshal of Karak Eight Peaks
Clan Hazkal: This Dwarf is of the Warrior Clan founded by the wanderers, exiles and expatriates that fought for the reclamation of Karak Eight Peaks.
Hammerer: Dreng was one of the Royal Guards of King Belegar.
Ranger: Dreng was a Ranger, the scouts and saboteurs of the Dwarven Throngs.
Prince Gotri Stoneheart, Sky-Thane of Karak Eight Peaks
Clan Stoneheart: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Zhufbar.
Master Engineer: Gotri has attained the rank of Master in the Guild of Engineers.
Pilot: Gotri is skilled at flying the Gyrocopter and all its variations.
Radical: This Dwarf holds views that fly in the face of tradition.
Princess Edda Grimbrow, Steward of Karak Eight Peaks
Ambitious: Edda has her sights set on becoming a Queen.
Clan Grimbrow: This Dwarf is of the Royal Clan of Karak Izor.
Organized: Edda is extremely efficient at establishing, controlling, and keeping track of large projects.
Gunnars, High Priest of Karak Eight Peaks
Clanless: Either by birth or by choice, this Dwarf does not belong to any Clan.
Priest of Gazul: Gunnars is sworn to the Ancestor God of the Dead, Gazul.
Swordsman: In emulation of Gazul, Gunnars is one of the few Dwarves to wield a sword.
Witch Hunter: Gunnars belongs to the Order of the Guardians, which hunts necromancers and vampires.
- Location
- Australia
It's one I created for TBG and rather religiously hit questers over the head with any time they start eyeing off foreign stars. So I was amused to see it here of all places.
It is not named "scholar of the divine" or anything of sort, tho. It is a quality, not a skill or knowledge.
From vocabularly description of the word and what little we have of the trait's description, I personally, strongly believe that her gaining the trait would be an overall improvement of her ability to channel Ranald.
Not like, Lore of Ranald, but being like Ranald. Embodying his qualities and virtues.
Not really? It seems more likely to improve our ability to channel his power directly, and be less soul-weary afterwards. Which is a really nice thing to have as a backup.
Also, @EVA-Saiyajin, if Belegar can get by with only one 20, I'm sure we'll be fine. Edit: Also, lol that we are as good a commander as he is.
That's an odd council, I suppose it fits with our non-traditional hold, but still:
- A king who favors intrigue
- A Clanless High Priest
- A Diplomat who knows rune-smithing
- A radical with gyrocopers
- A court wizard of the Lore of Shadows no less
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
The relative ease of the Court Wizard position and the freedom of choice it gave us was probably the #1 talking point for it for the entire last vote. Now that we have that freedom we're going to use it to grab stuff we like.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Mathilde is the tallest one there.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As I expected, it looks like Belegar's equipment played a roll in his higher than stat sheet Martial in battle.
That is also possible, and not really exclusive with what I think is more likely. In all fairness, is likely to be a side effect of being an avatar of a god.
Generally, high piety and closeness with your god in Warhammer makes the character in question resemble their god in appearance and action. Arcane/Divine marks table is a part of it all, but fluffwise it goes beyond that.
I think it is unlikely because that would be severely damaging to us. Our soul is already warped by Ulgu, and channeling Ranald the way a priest does would pull it in two directions. What we did was use our Ulgu-warped soul like an oil pipeline to channel Divine power through ourselves without changing ourselves.
Given that, I think acquiring Ranaldian marks from the trait associated with the event is incredibly unlikely.
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Thorgrim's frown might reach Kragg levels...
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
After some thought...
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
Not really fussed about the the other options, but I think we should keep a closer eye and hand on the EIC, and these are two favourite traits. Windsage is just all around good and narratively I think it's interesting, while Avatar just feels fitting considering what Mathilde's done.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
Not really fussed about the the other options, but I think we should keep a closer eye and hand on the EIC, and these are two favourite traits. Windsage is just all around good and narratively I think it's interesting, while Avatar just feels fitting considering what Mathilde's done.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
The goal wouldn't be to channel Ranaldan energy the way priest does. Theoretically, we'd draw on a small bit of Ranald's energy in a reverse of the process he used against Mork where he safely channeled divine power through our soul. Then we'd use Ulgu to manipulate that divine power the same way one would manipulate Dhar with Shyish in Necromancy.