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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Neshuakadal said:
I am sorry I am still pulling research for your argument. It's just that this argument seems to be a major sticking point for people concerned about it. Don't worry I am still building my argument against Ulgu sorcery.
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Actually, its never been a major point, its one that keeps getting brought up because those opposed keep arguing this is a trait to get us possessed by other gods willy nilly. The actual main arguments are things like

No other event in the story matches the event this trait ties to.
or
Ranald's always been a bro so why not get the perk that ties to him?
or
Hey, this would likely make it easier to research reverse sorcery.
or
Hey, this could get us a massive power up when shit is going on, as Ranald would probably be perfectly willing to help out.
or
Hey, if we do call upon Ranald to save us, this might reduce the side effects.
or
Hey, this might make it easier to reduce/remove battle magic miscasts by feeding it to our god like we did the ritual's energy.

So please, for the love of Ranald and any other gods in this setting, don't treat "resistance to possession" like its the primary reason behind getting it.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Issue I am having is that we were possessed by Mork, not Ranald.

Combined with the facts we had an option to accept Mork's power in the vote after the possession (we chose to steal it for Ranald instead) and have consistently been better than Shamans at manipulating Waagh energy, I am somewhat entertaining the notion it is an option to be possessed-ish by Ork gods, not Ranald. It is reaching, for sure, but I do not recall ever being possessed by Ranald(?), so I do not consider it more reaching than assumption people are running with that it is Avatar of specifically Ranald.
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The WOGs all say that the trait doesn't have to do with being the avatar of any god. The specific point is "being used to possession, so you can do more than just go with along it." It's more a trait showing our experience rather than one granting us vulnerability. Why on earth would we be given one trait that makes us vulnerable to Mork in an OOC choice with only other good traits in competition? I understand your paranoia, but I don't think BoneyM is the type of GM who will pull a 'gotcha!' like that on us.

I personally want it because I want to try and use divine magic/ulgu hybrid which requires channeling Ranald's power. This trait will more than likely help with that.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Let me ask a question: Do people genuinely think we can do our job well, along with personal improvement, with only two wizards and possibly Avatar (aka, possibly (just consider it) not granting any immediate benefits)? I'm seriously asking, I want to do well is all.
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6 actions, 1 on EIC, 1 on minions, that leaves room for 2 on our job and 2 on personal improvement per turn, so yeah probably. Of course, I'm also approval voting to recruit all of the wizards here, but that doesn't mean we couldn't do it.
 
Quest said:
I understand your paranoia, but I don't think BoneyM is the type of GM who will pull a 'gotcha!' like that on us.
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I would not be considering this shadowrun at all if we did not have an option to try and eat Mork's power for ourselves back then. It gives some funny context to Avatar trait.

I mean, if Boney means it just in a sense of "has exp with being conduit for god powers and is going to have some agency while possessed", that's that. Not like I am terribly attache to that interpretation, it was just too amusing. :V
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Let me ask a question: Do people genuinely think we can do our job well, along with personal improvement, with only two wizards and possibly Avatar (aka, possibly (just consider it) not granting any immediate benefits)? I'm seriously asking, I want to do well is all.
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Yes? If I didn't think it was possible to do well, I wouldn't have voted for it.

Frankly, I think that Mathilde would be able to do the job with no new traits - so picking up Windsage is pure gravy, and I don't feel the need for both of our new traits to directly and immediately boost Learning.

And as has been repeatedly mentioned, K8P is an active war zone, so our role will be more related to "poking weird stuff" than to gradual upteching. Having fewer delegated actions (which have smaller bonuses) in exchange for more personal actions (which have higher bonuses) seems appropriate.
 
Neshuakadal said:
So I found the miscast table that refers to deamonic possession. I found a copy of the 2e edition table online under the major miscasts. Here is what it says.



So definitely not the game ender some believe it to be. While bad the possession lasts for only one minute. Unless we are concerned about the deamon killing us while in control it certainly doesn't seem worth spending a trait on just to help deal with.
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What part of;
BoneyM said:
Miscasting will not be so predictable as reading off a table when Mathilde is the one that has to live with the consequences.
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Do you not understand? It's hard to consider you to be arguing in anything approaching good faith by this point. I mean, you literally pointed out that we would have no recourse if the Daemon removed the seed and made us kill ourselves before dismissing it as dangerous.
 
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Quest said:
The WOGs all say that the trait doesn't have to do with being the avatar of any god. The specific point is "being used to possession, so you can do more than just go with along it." It's more a trait showing our experience rather than one granting us vulnerability. Why on earth would we be given one trait that makes us vulnerable to Mork in an OOC choice with only other good traits in competition? I understand your paranoia, but I don't think BoneyM is the type of GM who will pull a 'gotcha!' like that on us.

I personally want it because I want to try and use divine magic/ulgu hybrid which requires channeling Ranald's power. This trait will more than likely help with that.
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Yeah, being able to do other things while channeling Divine power is likely a necessary prerequisite to being able to manipulate the stuff with Ulgu, since you need to do both simultaneously.
 
Realms of Sorcery says that to make magic items you use the same rules as writing rituals. Is the difficulty of making magic items the same in Divided Loyalties?
 
Redshirt Army said:
Yes? If I didn't think it was possible to do well, I wouldn't have voted for it.
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Sorry. I have seen people make actions with justifications (not just this vote or quest) of simple curiosity and interest, not practicality. And I adore this quest, and would hate to mess up our path because of our own poor decisions because people were more interested in exploring cool stuff than taking what is useful. So...basically, worrywart that I am, I'm just looking for reassurance.

I keep getting this feeling that if this vote isn't done just right we're gonna mess up or be set on a poor start. Probably just paranoid.
 
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[X] Plan 2 wizards

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Let me ask a question: Do people genuinely think we can do our job well, along with personal improvement, with only two wizards and possibly Avatar (aka, possibly (just consider it) not granting any immediate benefits)? I'm seriously asking, I want to do well is all.
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I don't see why not? We've managed well enough so far, and I don't think we have much of a reason to expect a suddenly difficulty spike, IC or OOC. Plus, I don't think @BoneyM is the type of GM to kill Mathilde just because the players weren't minmaxing her stats hard enough.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Let me ask a question: Do people genuinely think we can do our job well, along with personal improvement, with only two wizards and possibly Avatar (aka, possibly (just consider it) not granting any immediate benefits)? I'm seriously asking, I want to do well is all.
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Honestly? Yes. We are also more than likely getting Windsage which boosts our research capability, but Mathilde is genuinely impressive when it comes to magic. See her learning and all of the spells she knows. In terms of magical combat we are already incredibly dangerous against greenskins and Kragg's belt covers everything we can't. In the event we encounter something that we have no idea about we have both the favors and money to get lessons or books to help us.

In theory, the enemies might pull something we didn't anticipate and blindside us, but in practice our skill-set allows us to spy on them and figure out all their moves before they make it. Anything that can get past us already, no one else would be able to deal with.
 
Prospalz said:
Can someone provide me Winter Wolf tabletop or WHFroleplay stats?
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No they have never been officialy stated up. However, when they were created (In the 8th Edition Empire Army Book) they were explicitly stated to be equivalent with Demigryphs.

Fan stats for both are avalible at the warhammer armies project. I'm sure official stats for Demigryphs are floating round the internet. If not I'll post them in ~8 hours when I get off from work.
 
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
 
Speaking as someone NOT voting for the avatar, it is obvious that it isn't a trap option.

Rather, its likely primary benefit would be resistance to future possessions.

That still makes it not an optimal trait imho, as I for one intend not to choose options that would put Mathilde in similar situations any time soon.
 
[X] Recruit Panoramia
[X] Recruit Maximilian

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
One action per turn will be spent keeping in touch with the EIC, allowing you to more directly control it and, if you wish, helping it branch out towards Karak Eight Peaks.

[X] Practical > Hands On: Wait, you can just get other people to do the paperwork? Why didn't I think of this sooner? +1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -1 Learning, +10 bonus to insights developed 'in the field' (as opposed to careful laboratory study).
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
 
ctulhuslp said:
I would not be considering this shadowrun at all if we did not have an option to try and eat Mork's power for ourselves back then. It gives some funny context to Avatar trait.

I mean, if Boney means it just in a sense of "has exp with being conduit for god powers and is going to have some agency while possessed", that's that. Not like I am terribly attache to that interpretation, it was just too amusing. :V
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The thing is that we've had a dwarf priest look us over after we confessed everything to Kragg and Belegar. He got a crit success. If there was any left-over divine influence from Mork, he would have mentioned it. It seems unlikely that we'd suddenly develop orky bits after so long.
 
I am incredibly dubious that a trait named "Avatar" is primarily concerned with defense against demonic possession.
Adhoc vote count started by Joker Eden on Oct 4, 2019 at 4:45 AM, finished with 757 posts and 198 votes.
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Sorry. I have seen people make actions with justifications (not just this vote or quest) of simple curiosity and interest, not practicality. And I adore this quest, and would hate to mess up our path because of our own poor decisions because people were more interested in exploring cool stuff than taking what is useful. So...basically, worrywart that I am, I'm just looking for reassurance.

I keep getting this feeling that if this vote isn't done just right we're gonna mess up or be set on a poor start. Probably just paranoid.
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I don't want to sound too dismissive EVA but we can't really address your concern unless you give us a bit of context. We're going to have several wizards on hand to delegate to, can dispel against Greenskins like a champ if needed and the Skaven don't seem to be caster heavy, we're going to be in a fantastic position to spot the Waystones thanks to Windsage, the spiders have our top men on it regardless, the Dragon Ogres have been culled and are sickening with Asqhy, Pan would be our best bet at catching some bad juju using plants as a vector, we've been implicitly given permission to handle Johann as we see fit, etc. Nothing remotely hinted at so far suggests we're going to be poorly equipped for what we're facing.

Considering that we were able to expedite the Amber College giving our two Amber Journeymanlings a needed spell already, I can't imagine we can't potentially do something similar if we wind up with Pan and Max (though it might cost favor) so we have a lot of potential tools at our disposal to identify and fix issues.
 
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