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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Rereading what did Roswita end up doing with the Gromril sword she was presented with? She already has a runefang and carrying two swords doesn't make that much sense so who did she give it to?
 
I think the biggest thing to remember here is that we are ultimately still experimenting with how exactly this all works. Half the purpose of the Project is to experiment and see what we come up with. I know the update says (and the general hope is) that this model of waystone that we're making first will hopefully dot the continent, but we're still winging it all.

I would not be very surprised if this attempt fails and tells us what we did wrong (X Capstone component doesnt play well with Y Storage component, which will be good to know for next try), or that if it's successful that the cost in wizard/runesmith-time would be ruinous. I'd say the idea that we'll both succeed and that this will be a very viable waystone is a long shot only doable through The Gambler.

I'm saying this, because... I feel like the attitude is getting a bit serious in the thread and it's worth reminding ourselves not to get too heated. Just a thought.
 
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Tobtorp said:
Only if you move your army along a specific river you got a pre-prepared waystone boat at... These are pretty specific circumstances.
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TBF, if the Empire is responding to an Everchosen leading another chaos invasion, there are probably going to be a few major rivers that they are sending the troops up before they reach the Kislev canal, and a bunch of smaller rivers connecting to the major ones, so after a few years (depending on production rate of waystones) it's entirely possible that they could have all of the likely rivers covered by waystone boats.
fictionfan said:
Rereading what did Roswita end up doing with the Gromril sword she was presented with? She already has a runefang and carrying two swords doesn't make that much sense so who did she give it to?
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I would assume that she would bestow it upon the general of the Stirlandian army, or whoever is in command when she isn't there.
 
Parabola said:
I think the biggest thing to remember here is that we are ultimately still experimenting with how exactly this all works. Half the purpose of the Project is to experiment and see what we come up with. I know the update says (and the general hope is) that this model of waystone that we're making first will hopefully dot the continent, but we're still winging it all.

I would not be very surprised if this attempt fails and tells us what we did wrong (X Capstone component doesnt play well with Y Storage component, which will be good to know for next try), or that if it's successful that the cost in wizard/runesmith-time would be ruinous. I'd say the idea that we'll both succeed and that this will be a very viable waystone is a long shot only doable through The Gambler.

I'm saying this, because... I feel like the attitude is getting a bit serious in the thread and it's worth reminding ourselves not to get too heated. Just a thought.
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I want to second this and underscore it. This is one of the reasons I haven't been arguing very hard in the thread for my preference; odds are we're going to take this action once or twice more in the future as we figure things out. If we take this action and results are subpar, it's not a case where the Thing We Want Is Ruined Forever. There are lots of ways to get to the things we want; no matter the results of this vote or of the rolls associated with it, the Waystone Project is in great shape and will keep on trucking. So it's worth taking a relaxed attitude towards it; this isn't one of the super-high-stakes votes like "what story arc do we do next" or "what do we do with this heretical research project" or "who does Mathilde wanna smooch".
 
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[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)

[X] Plan: Mass leyline

I don't think we can make Stone flowers reliably and in significant numbers, so I'd prefer the second- but I'd prefer reverse-engineering to a more expensive first version.
 
Boney said:
"Eight Peaks reconnected, and we thought, okay, that's good for the Dwarves, but Dwarves being Dwarves, no real relevance to us. But then Boris passes on the transcript of the lecture on greenskin magic, which some of our mages found intriguing because, of course, we're not capable of lowering ourselves enough to understand their magics. So we had a look into you, and when we realized that someone with an affinity for understanding magics is in Eight Peaks and working with the Dwarves, we had to speak with you. We've got our own piece of the network just as the Dwarves do, and if we could bring a few more Waystones online, it could do a lot of good for us - and our friends and allies. So we want to open a relationship with your King Belegar, in the hopes of beginning joint research into the Waystone Network."
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I wonder if Laurelorn's piece of the network can be interfaced with using the Leyline password or if they have their own? They certainly don't use the riverine method, considering what they brought to the table when we did that action.
Come to think of it we still don't know how Laurelorn found out eight peaks reconnected. Do they 'see' the dwarven network through the larger network? Does the Dwarven network assign fixed fractions for where magic ultimately goes? 50% for Ulthuan, 50% for themselves?
 
pucflek said:
As an aside, @Boney i know you said that you don´t want to go from abstraction on this much, but considering how much the math matters, if this waystone prototype would end up viable, roughly how often a year could such fiendishly difficult enchantment such as storage be performed at the initial level of difficulty with available elfpower? Like, single digits, low double digits? Because at single digits that would actually be a dealbreaker even for me yeah.
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The information you have available to you at this point is which components are more difficult and which ones are less difficult. Exact figures in Elf-hours for a given component haven't been given because those figures are impossible to calculate for something that hasn't even been prototyped yet.

Alratan said:
I'm not sure that Realms of Sorcery section is relevant any more, it may have been superceded by what Boney has said.

For example, I think it's next to there where it says that necromancers block Waystones because they want to use them as a source of Dhar, which Boney has said isn't the case here, as Dhar is easy to make and so that kind of thing is unnecessary.
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It hasn't been superceded. Having a deep well of Dhar in the middle of nowhere that you can built a base of operations around is useful in a way that a constant trickle of Dhar in a tunnel dug through the mud underneath a heavily-trafficked river isn't.
 
Boney said:
The information you have available to you at this point is which components are more difficult and which ones are less difficult. Exact figures in Elf-hours for a given component haven't been given because those figures are impossible to calculate for something that hasn't even been prototyped yet.
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It hasn´t been prototyped yet but the initial enchantment has been created and while thats not exactly a super mega extra indicator of how long it would take to make both enchantment and make it play nice with the rest of the prototype, it would be nice to know if they like, spent four months of the turn they had trying to figure that out reverse engineering it and then chanting for two months nonstop at a rock just to enchant it to be foundation once. Because that information should be available to Mathilde via dint of just asking them. We will get to know how long it takes to incorporate it (if at all) once we make the whole prototype, but the foundation has already been made.

Thats kind of important to know when the improvement rate is "dozens or hundreds" to make a headway into it. If just the enchanting part without any of the "incorporate it into the waystone proper" already takes 2 months now, then the entire thing is so unwieldy we should know before wasting AP on it because its only going to get worse once the incorporating starts and thats just not worth it.
 
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Everyone said I was daft to build a Dark Fortress on the river mud, but I built it all the same, just to show them! It sank into the mud. So I built a second one. That sank into the mud. So I built a third. It was burned by the River Patrol, knocked over by cannonfire, and sank into the mud. But the fourth one...
 
pucflek said:
It hasn´t been prototyped yet but the initial enchantment has been created and while thats not exactly a super mega extra indicator of how long it would take to make both enchantment and make it play nice with the rest of the prototype, it would be nice to know if they like, spent four months of the turn they had trying to figure that out reverse engineering it and then chanting for two months nonstop at a rock just to enchant it to be foundation once. Because that information should be available to Mathilde via dint of just asking them. We will get to know how long it takes to incorporate it (if at all) once we make the whole prototype, but the foundation has already been made.

Thats kind of important to know when the improvement rate is "dozens or hundreds" to make a headway into it.
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Presumably building a Waystone is more than just making the parts in isolation, because that's the QM you're arguing with.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Presumably building a Waystone is more than just making the parts in isolation, because that's the QM you're arguing with.
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Yes i am aware. But its a pretty easy assumption to make that since they created the foundation enchantment once, we could get ballpark on that, and from that build an assumption that however long making a waystone would be, it would be longer than that. Doesn´t matter how much longer, thats something we can decide on if its worth it later, but going into crafting a waystone while having no idea what does "fiendishly difficult" in this context even mean kinda puts damper on it.

There are spells that take years to cast in Warhammer. This one can´t be it because they knocked it together in half a year, but if they spent three months figuring out a way to do that and the other three months just to enchant it once, thats something we should know.

EDIT: Basically what i am saying is that, well let´s make faulty but worst case scenario formula like

Waystone_Build_Time = X * Integration_time

where X is the time to build storage, maybe the Integration_time is a 1 or 5 or 10 or 100 multiplier and that makes us scrap the design even if it works and it makes sense that we don´t and can´t know that, but it would be nice knowing if the X is an hour, a day, a week or a month before we pick it because large enough X means we would never even try to test it out because the time cost on it is already too prohibitive even if there was no multiplier in the first place.
 
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MooseHowl said:
Everyone said I was daft to build a Dark Fortress on the river mud, but I built it all the same, just to show them! It sank into the mud. So I built a second one. That sank into the mud. So I built a third. It was burned by the River Patrol, knocked over by cannonfire, and sank into the mud. But the fourth one...
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Gave Lady Magister Dame Mathilde Weber her third Great Deed. Alas, the voices in her head got so salty debating how to use it all the mud dried out. :V

Speaking of getting runesmiths whereever we need them, isn't the Rune apprentice level? Because Thirek got plenty of apprentices and full authority to drag them by the beards/plaits whereever they are needed. Still an issue in the long run, but it should help.
 
pucflek said:
Yes i am aware. But its a pretty easy assumption to make that since they created the foundation enchantment once, we could get ballpark on that, and from that build an assumption that however long making a waystone would be, it would be longer than that. Doesn´t matter how much longer, thats something we can decide on if its worth it later, but going into crafting a waystone while having no idea what does "fiendishly difficult" in this context even mean kinda puts damper on it.

There are spells that take years to cast in Warhammer. This one can´t be it because they knocked it together in half a year, but if they spent three months figuring out a way to do that and the other three months just to enchant it once, thats something we should know.

EDIT: Basically what i am saying is that, well let´s make faulty but worst case scenario formula like

Waystone_Build_Time = X * Integration_time

where X is the time to build storage, maybe the Integration_time is a 1 or 5 or 10 or 100 multiplier and that makes us scrap the design even if it works and it makes sense that we don´t and can´t know that, but it would be nice knowing if the X is an hour, a day, a week or a month before we pick it because large enough X means we would never even try to test it out because the time cost on it is already too prohibitive even if there was no multiplier in the first place.
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I don't think that follows I mean what we are talking about here basically is estimating the time for improvement in design and construction of a new field. Even when we are talking regular technology that has proven to be very hard to do IRL. Ask someone in the 60s how long it would take to get solar panels to be as cheap as they are not and they would have wildly overshot the mark. Now take out the nice sensible material tech and replace it with Zhuff logic. I do not think we should get anything anything more than a wild guess from making the foundation once.
 
picklepikkl said:
"what story arc do we do next" or "what do we do with this heretical research project" or "who does Mathilde wanna smooch".
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The story arc of Mathilde smooching her heretical research project.

(The project's cool with it and Pan's downright entuastic).
Actually, forget having a seperate third party.
[*] Story arc of Pan's apotheosis!

But realtalk, ya'll need to start incuding cute animal pics in spoiler boxes at the bottom of you posts.
 
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pucflek said:
It hasn´t been prototyped yet but the initial enchantment has been created and while thats not exactly a super mega extra indicator of how long it would take to make both enchantment and make it play nice with the rest of the prototype, it would be nice to know if they like, spent four months of the turn they had trying to figure that out reverse engineering it and then chanting for two months nonstop at a rock just to enchant it to be foundation once. Because that information should be available to Mathilde via dint of just asking them. We will get to know how long it takes to incorporate it (if at all) once we make the whole prototype, but the foundation has already been made.

Thats kind of important to know when the improvement rate is "dozens or hundreds" to make a headway into it. If just the enchanting part without any of the "incorporate it into the waystone proper" already takes 2 months now, then the entire thing is so unwieldy we should know before wasting AP on it because its only going to get worse once the incorporating starts and thats just not worth it.
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pucflek said:
Yes i am aware. But its a pretty easy assumption to make that since they created the foundation enchantment once, we could get ballpark on that, and from that build an assumption that however long making a waystone would be, it would be longer than that. Doesn´t matter how much longer, thats something we can decide on if its worth it later, but going into crafting a waystone while having no idea what does "fiendishly difficult" in this context even mean kinda puts damper on it.

There are spells that take years to cast in Warhammer. This one can´t be it because they knocked it together in half a year, but if they spent three months figuring out a way to do that and the other three months just to enchant it once, thats something we should know.

EDIT: Basically what i am saying is that, well let´s make faulty but worst case scenario formula like

Waystone_Build_Time = X * Integration_time

where X is the time to build storage, maybe the Integration_time is a 1 or 5 or 10 or 100 multiplier and that makes us scrap the design even if it works and it makes sense that we don´t and can´t know that, but it would be nice knowing if the X is an hour, a day, a week or a month before we pick it because large enough X means we would never even try to test it out because the time cost on it is already too prohibitive even if there was no multiplier in the first place.
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You do not have X. What you have is Y, the amount of time it took to create the self-contained proof of concept for the very first time. I have not given the thread Y because it has zero actual utility and a great deal of false utility from people mistaking it for X. X could very easily be greater than Y, because there could be emergent complications from including everything it actually needs to do, or arising from its interactions with the rest of the Waystone. X could very easily be less than Y, because creating something for the very first time is hard and it's a lot easier when you know what you're doing, and there could be inefficiencies in that original design that could be refined away.

The way to get X is to make a working model of the entire Waystone. This hasn't happened yet.
 
Boney said:
You do not have X. What you have is Y, the amount of time it took to create the self-contained proof of concept for the very first time. I have not given the thread Y because it has zero actual utility and a great deal of false utility from people mistaking it for X. X could very easily be greater than Y, because there could be emergent complications from including everything it actually needs to do, or arising from its interactions with the rest of the Waystone. X could very easily be less than Y, because creating something for the very first time is hard and it's a lot easier when you know what you're doing, and there could be inefficiencies in that original design that could be refined away.

The way to get X is to make a working model of the entire Waystone. This hasn't happened yet.
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This does feel like the sort of thing someone would have asked you before or may have weighed in on, but there has been a lot of posts and I've been wondering.

While I have a memory of you saying that the waystones are integrated objects and creating[/implementing] design A does not make it easier to create[/implement] design B, even if they had the same transmission methods or capstone, does this also be the case specifically for the Reverse-engineered storage method?

i.e. if we pick reverse engineered storage method here, would the practice the people making the waystones have with that storage method be useful if constructing another desigs that uses the it, or would the other different components mean that the reverse engineered method would be implemented in a too different manner for the lessons learned/refinements made to be transferrable?
 
Wiggy said:
Well, the EIC is about to have a lot of money from the ithilmar action...
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Heh, the 'Ole Reliable

Boney said:
Secondary Corporate Beliefs:
Insider Trading: The EIC likes to make profit from being the first to know important information.
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Helping EIC make their bones:

Boney said:
You linger in Wurtbad long enough to catch up with Wilhelmina, hear the latest set of disappointments her sons have inflicted on her, and pass on a few tips. The tidal wave of silver in the hands of returning Stirlanders is definitely the sort of tip she can use. All those brave souls will be wanting land to settle down on, and it just so happens that an Elector Countess had been trying to sell land for long enough that she'd dropped the price a few notches. If she was aware of the triumphant return of Codrin and his ilk she'd know to keep a hold of it a little longer, but it just so happens that she had decided against retaining the services of the stunningly talented Grey Wizard who happened to have that information. You indulge in just a little schadenfreude as Wilhelmina gobbles up vast tracts of the Hunter's Hills, which are soon to take a massive leap in demand, and not one to miss a trick, Wilhelmina also strikes a deal with the Stirland mint to supply high-purity Dwarven silver for them to debase into rather more than the sixty coins Dwarves would make of it. Land for gold, silver for land, gold for silver - a level of alchemy beyond the arts of the Gold College.
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