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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)

You know what, I've convinced myself that this is better. Better to start plonking at the reverse engineered storage now and see how much it can be simplified when we are making deluxe stones with other bottlenecks.

We'll see if the reverse-engineered storage is worth it and adjust our second model in a few turns (if needed).
 
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MrHobbit said:
Von Carstein eliminated the last living nobles in Sylvania in 2010 IC, so there'd still be a few hanger-ons after Mordheim.

I would be surprised if at least a few waystones had their storage capacity broken so they would leak, but there is already an explanation. Waystones filled with dhar start fucking up everything around them even if the dhar doesn't leak. Realms of Sorcery says the following.

Because apparently dhar wanting to kill you isn't bad enough. Even if the dhar doesn't escape containment, the radiation will still kill you. Though Boney might have created the dhar bombs. Each Storm of Magic would cut off the time before the waystones making Sylvania livable no longer function, but again. This is a process that takes decades and centuries.
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I'm not sure that Realms of Sorcery section is relevant any more, it may have been superceded by what Boney has said.

For example, I think it's next to there where it says that necromancers block Waystones because they want to use them as a source of Dhar, which Boney has said isn't the case here, as Dhar is easy to make and so that kind of thing is unnecessary.

Note also that your quote is about a corrupted Henge, not one upstream of a destroyed one, but one, presumably, that has been tampered with in some fashion but not destroyed. That may be something different. Corrupted sounds like something malign has happened to it. It sounds more like an example of what I was talking about above, a Waystone tampered with so it leaks Dhar.
 
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Alratan said:
I really hope the reverse engineered option holds on, as it would very likely see significantly more Waystone made in the long run as it's cheaper, has an equality of parts in the long run dependant on elves and dwarves, and may have meaningful spin off benefits. Depending on how high a high cost is, it may not even have that much impact on short term production.

It should also have a lower opportunity cost in terms of things we care about in the near term.
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I agree that in the very long run it's superior, in the sense that it will result in a product that will function slightly better, will be cheaper and insights into the enchantment may have great benefits for human spellcraft. But you're dead wrong on the subject of opportunity cost. Right now, there is immense value to be gained by getting Waystones to places like Praag, Mordheim, Mousillon and Sylvania ASAP. Choosing Reverse Engineering means, I think, that might get done in a few decades rather than a few turns.

And while cost isn't an irrelevant consideration, I seriously doubt it will constrain production. The economic cost of those bleeding wounds is so great that if a solution is presented that will fix them then it will get the funding it needs. Both the Empire and Kislev will throw resources at the problem, and Mathilde has so much favor with the Karaz Ankor that I expect the vaults of holds like Karaz a Karak would be opened to provide whatever resources are needed.

Also, I think you're off the mark on balancing the workload between Elves and Dwarves. The Rune barely even counts as a component -- it could be carved by an ordinary mason and still result in a working design. And Dwarven-produced runed storage also counts as "simple" even if it's expensive. So you're comparing archmages doing "simple" + "very difficult" + "trying to reduce the difficulty of the very difficult thing" and dwarves doing just "simple" vs archmages doing "simple" and dwarves doing "simple" + "simple". I like the latter much better, especially since I'm pretty sure the supply of archmages is much more constrained than that of Runesmiths.
 
Alratan said:
I'm not sure that Realms of Sorcery section is relevant any more, and has been superceded by what Boney has said.

For example, I think it's next to there where it says that necromancers block Waystones because they want to use them as a source of Dhar, which Boney has said isn't the case here, as Dhar is easy to make and so that kind of thing is unnecessary.

Note also that your quote is about a corrupted Henge, not one upstream of a destroyed one, but one, presumably, that has been tampered with in some fashion but not destroyed.
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Where did Boney said necromancers don't care about blocking dhar? Elrisse is a Lady Magister of the Light College and she says that they like doing it because it cuts down the work they need to do.

The paragraph I got the quote from does not indicate they all come from the actions of Necromancers. The sections around my quote also say:
If the exit path of magic entering the Henge can be blocked or destroyed, then the magic flowing into the Henge will be trapped within the stone circle itself, unable to move onward and unable to leak out into the atmosphere unless tapped into directly by a magic user. Such a thing is terrible, for not only does it risk destabilising the delicate balance of the Great Vortex, but it also means that the magic contained within the Henge will gradually combine and stagnate into that most dangerous of all Aethyric energy, Dhar. [this leads into what I quoted before]
....
This kind of Henge is truly a necromancer's dream.
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It's obvious that some of it has been changed, like the stone circle. But the principles are the same. And why wouldn't dhar radiation fuck up life all around it? Calling it a necromancer's dream is also kinda weird for something that is only ever created through their own actions.

Boney said:
"The Waystones themselves seem to have no mechanism to reverse the creation of the energy packets," you note aloud. "It's reabsorbing the energy as only Dhar."

"No wonder Necromancers and Sorcerers love to clog the flow," Elrisse says. "It does all the work for them."
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Alratan said:
For example, I think it's next to there where it says that necromancers block Waystones because they want to use them as a source of Dhar, which Boney has said isn't the case here, as Dhar is easy to make and so that kind of thing is unnecessary.
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Necromancer DYNASTIES it's not the case here. If you're not acting as a feudal lord with an actual full on palace and actual subjects who you want growing crops and raising herd to pay you actual taxes with, fucking up a waystone to use as a limitless power supply has a very different cost-benefit analysis.
 
Alratan said:
For example, I think it's next to there where it says that necromancers block Waystones because they want to use them as a source of Dhar, which Boney has said isn't the case here, as Dhar is easy to make and so that kind of thing is unnecessary.
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Catching the stream of an active waystone (what boney said was impractical) is very different than blocking up one and having it fill up for half a decade. If you have half a decade worth of magic in a way stone the equation is completely different than if you just have less than would be around you
 
Only one more vote for a plan that doesn't snub the dawi to tie the leading one.

Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Jan 9, 2024 at 8:07 PM, finished with 1319 posts and 153 votes.
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For what it's worth, in regards to the ongoing dispute on how long waystones survive whole blocked... Well, it looks like citations have resolved a substantial part of it, but still, in regards to this:
Alratan said:
Golden Age Waystones can survive for several centuries after their downstream connection is severed
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We can look back at what we did to Vlag. There, when we were proposing clogging waystones (that is, severing the downstream connection and just letting things build up, rather than pointing them in a direction and having the dhar just get dumped there), we were told that would eventually turn into a permanent clog which killed the stone:
Boney said:
That specific question seemed to imply 'block it and continue with our journey'. Eventually the clog will turn into a permanent accumulation of Dhar that can only be solved by exploding it.
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Now you can technically argue that "eventually" could mean "not for several centuries", but given that it was being noted as a problem with doing this, moving along with the expedition, and coming back afterwards, this would be a really misleading way to phrase that outcome. If letting a clogged waystone accumulate for even a year was safe, that would mean we would have been fine to just clog it and be on our way, with no meaningful risk of permanently breaking a waystone short of us dying in the expedition. Boney seems to pretty clearly be saying that's not an option here, so I expect golden age (or, presumably, reverse engineered) waystones with no outlet still can't accumulate more than a month or so of dhar without potential issues, and almost certainly not a turn.

Speaking of which, uh, maybe let's not set up waystones which are either incredibly expensive or become a permanent blight on a network after someone jams them for a few days? That just seems like a bad idea. I'm willing to spend a few years or a decade or whatever producing waystones only with high degrees of effort if it means we can eventually make affordable things and still shut them down for maintenance. And as people have so often mentioned, that means getting started now, so we have the most time to get optimizing. I really do think "make sure high-end dwarven runesmiths have yet another way to spend some of their highly limited time getting lots of money" is less important than "make it as hard as possible for waystones to accidentally get blown up because someone hit the off switch and died before anyone else hit the on switch again". Storage kind of matters. (And things improving over time without needing our AP sunk into them is always good to see. And avoiding the present Uluthani situation of "we can make the things but it's so incredibly expensive it's worth Eltharion throwing an incredible amount of political power behind a random human-focused project to potentially decrease the price" seems, uh, good. Expensive waystones can clearly get really really expensive if things go wrong.)

[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)
 
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jkgbrz said:
I agree that in the very long run it's superior, in the sense that it will result in a product that will function slightly better, will be cheaper and insights into the enchantment may have great benefits for human spellcraft. But you're dead wrong on the subject of opportunity cost. Right now, there is immense value to be gained by getting Waystones to places like Praag, Mordheim, Mousillon and Sylvania ASAP. Choosing Reverse Engineering means, I think, that might get done in a few decades rather than a few turns.

And while cost isn't an irrelevant consideration, I seriously doubt it will constrain production. The economic cost of those bleeding wounds is so great that if a solution is presented that will fix them then it will get the funding it needs. Both the Empire and Kislev will throw resources at the problem, and Mathilde has so much favor with the Karaz Ankor that I expect the vaults of holds like Karaz a Karak would be opened to provide whatever resources are needed.

Also, I think you're off the mark on balancing the workload between Elves and Dwarves. The Rune barely even counts as a component -- it could be carved by an ordinary mason and still result in a working design. And Dwarven-produced runed storage also counts as "simple" even if it's expensive. So you're comparing archmages doing "simple" + "very difficult" + "trying to reduce the difficulty of the very difficult thing" and dwarves doing just "simple" vs archmages doing "simple" and dwarves doing "simple" + "simple". I like the latter much better, especially since I'm pretty sure the supply of archmages is much more constrained than that of Runesmiths.
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I don't think the difference in the feasible production rate between the two will be that different. The reverse engineered one will be lower, but there are other bottlenecks, such as needing an enchanted who can make a very difficult transition method, but also because I think cost is a much more relevant factor than you do. I think we're looking at many decades or centuries either way.

I think that a high cost component will act as a significant constraint on production just as having a limited pool of people who can construct them. That's why both are mentioned as roughly equivalent factors for each option.

Pre-modern states usually have very constrained budgets without much flex in them. They can't just pour money into something on a dime as most of their budget will be committed to doing things they can't just drop. It's not as if the provinces can mothball their riverine navies or disband their state armies. They also usually have very limited ability to raise taxes because of causing social unrest.

And the rune is an essential component of the Waystone. None is not an option. By contrast, storage is not an essential component, not having storage is an option.

Aranfan said:
Only one more vote for a plan that doesn't snub the dawi to tie the leading one.
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The leading plan does not snub the dawi. It involved them exactly as much as their ancestors were involved in the Golden Age one, and I think they'll be overjoyed with that precedent
 
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Alratan said:
Yes, votes are important. There's a major difference in cost and long term benefits between the two options.

With the reverse engineering option the Old World will probably have:
  • More runic gear to arm dwarves so, amongst other things, a more successful Silver Road War
  • a lot more money that can be spent on economically productive infrastructure (like canals)
  • More money to spend on other ways of saving the world like raising armies and building fortresses
  • Humans may also be better at enchanting in general
  • The Empire may well have more things like battle altars and wizard's towers which much cheaper and better magical batteries might help with.
  • In the long run it will probably allow more Waystones on top of all those benefits.
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Researching the reverse engineered storage is a good idea that can potentially give many benefits, yes. But we can research it later, either as part of another Waystone variant or on its own with the rest of the Project.

Right now, however, we're in the middle of the crucial action of figuring out how every part of a Waystone comes together, which is already a very complicated task; and at the same time testing how all the various modules work as part of an actual, non-theoretical Waystone; and figuring out a way to combine Leyline and Riverine based transmissions, which is yet another potentially difficult issue.

This is, IMO, not the moment to spend so much effort on simplifying an incredibly complicated method by an unknown amount when other, simpler options would allow us to focus on the other, several problems which we need to solve right now.

Edit: Do we know how 'high' is high cost? What might be costly for, say, a small Province or Dukedom might not be as much for Kislev, or the larger/wealthier provinces. Not to mention that the first few Waystones will be much easier to justify (see the '10 Waystones to get Praag/Mordheim/Mousillon to stop being Like That) and by the time we're done with them, we'll hopefully have a design more fit for mass production than either of the two leading plans.
 
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Involves them the exact way their golden age ancestors were. While also improving on the TOTAL work in large part because their human allies came up with something the elves never did. Yes I think they will be very pleased with that. :V
 
Thomasfoolery said:
Maybe dial back the toxicity a bit?
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I honestly do feel like the leading plan snubs the dawi. If the current plan wins and they are happy with it I will be very glad to be wrong. Its just... when they only thing we need the dawi for is carving a rune that could be done by a mortal mason... why is thorek even here.

I think that if the leading plan does win we should work to make a mono-dawi one the dawi can use for their own purposes.
 
UDwarf said:
For what it's worth, in regards to the ongoing dispute on how long waystones survive whole blocked... Well, it looks like citations have resolved a substantial part of it, but still, in regards to this:

We can look back at what we did to Vlag. There, when we were proposing clogging waystones (that is, severing the downstream connection and just letting things build up, rather than pointing them in a direction and having the dhar just get dumped there), we were told that would eventually turn into a permanent clog which killed the stone:

Now you can technically argue that "eventually" could mean "not for several centuries", but given that it was being noted as a problem with doing this, moving along with the expedition, and coming back afterwards, this would be a really misleading way to phrase that outcome. If letting a clogged waystone accumulate for even a year was safe, that would mean we would have been fine to just clog it and be on our way, with no meaningful risk of permanently breaking a waystone short of us dying in the expedition. Boney seems to pretty clearly be saying that's not an option here, so I expect golden age (or, presumably, reverse engineered) waystones with no outlet still can't accumulate more than a month or so of dhar without potential issues, and almost certainly not a turn.

Speaking of which, uh, maybe let's not set up waystones which are either incredibly expensive or become a permanent blight on a network after someone jams them for a few days? That just seems like a bad idea. I'm willing to spend a few years or a decade or whatever producing waystones only with high degrees of effort if it means we can eventually make affordable things and still shut them down for maintenance. And as people have so often mentioned, that means getting started now, so we have the most time to get optimizing. I really do think "make sure high-end dwarven runesmiths have yet another way to spend some of their highly limited time getting lots of money" is less important than "make it as hard as possible for waystones to accidentally get blown up because someone hit the off switch and died before anyone else hit the on switch again". Storage kind of matters. (And things improving over time without needing our AP sunk into them is always good to see. And avoiding the present Uluthani situation of "we can make the things but it's so incredibly expensive it's worth Eltharion throwing an incredible amount of political power behind a random human-focused project to potentially decrease the price" seems, uh, good. Expensive waystones can clearly get really really expensive if things go wrong.)

[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)
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You probably don't need storage to take a waystone down for maintenance. If your waystones are cheap enough that you can have more of them then you could have a redundant network and route the incoming streams away from the stone that needs maintenance.
 
Ergosum said:
Researching the reverse engineered storage is a good idea that can potentially give many benefits, yes. But we can research it later, either as part of another Waystone variant or on its own with the rest of the Project.

Right now, however, we're in the middle of the crucial action of figuring out how every part of a Waystone comes together, which is already a very complicated task; and at the same time testing how all the various modules work as part of an actual, non-theoretical Waystone; and figuring out a way to combine Leyline and Riverine based transmissions, which is yet another potentially difficult issue.

This is, IMO, not the moment to spend so much effort on simplifying an incredibly complicated method by an unknown amount when other, simpler options would allow us to focus on the other, several problems which we need to solve right now.
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The sooner we start reverse engineering the sooner we finish, and if we build the alternative design I don't think there will ever be enough Waystones with reverse engineered storage built to get the difficulty down. By the look of it; this is a learning by doing not a lab research issue.

That means we don't have to dedicate extra effort to the reverse engineered storage if we start now, it happens for free in the background.

And from what we know the difficulty of the components doesn't influence the difficulty of making the initial prototype, only of mass production, so that isn't an issue.
 
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Aranfan said:
I honestly do feel like the leading plan snubs the dawi. If the current plan wins and they are happy with it I will be very glad to be wrong. Its just... when they only thing we need the dawi for is carving a rune that could be done by a mortal mason... why is thorek even here.
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He's here because of this.

Boney said:
That means that their business-as-usual approach to Runecraft is that someone commissions them to make a specific weapon or armour or whatever and trusts in their skills and artistic sensibilities to make something good and appropriate. But that only covers business as usual. If you go to one and ask them if they want to be part of rebuilding the network that keeps the continent alive that is also a glorious remnant of the golden age, something that some will point to in the history books as the point where the tide of Dwarven glory stopped going out, they're not going to pout and stamp their feet over having to carve the same rune the same way multiple times.
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The glory is in the accomplishment, it doesn't need special considerations parceled out in a participation prize sort of manner for it to be glorious.

Aranfan said:
I think that if the leading plan does win we should work to make a mono-dawi one the dawi can use for their own purposes.
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I agree (Well, assuming the pending investigation of the Dwarf Network doesn't reveal something that changes our understanding of the situation), based on what Boney has said about the feasibility of Nexus creation I'm pretty skeptical we'll be able to recreate the Old Holds technique where the entire thing is turned into a waystone, but hopefully a lesser creation like the speculated idea of Minor Holds housing Dwarf waystones could be implemented.
 
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Mopman43 said:
*Except for 8th edition Dwarfs, which can't decide if he's a son of Grimnir or Grungni, but I'm pretty sure that's because the book confused him with Thungni for some reason
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Reading the part on Runesmiths, I was very confused when it referred to them as the clan of Morgrim.

[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)

I'm happy with either Better Future plans, but they're both far ahead of any other plans and I do think that the reverse engineering option is the best, so I'm recasting my vote to just have that.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Boney has said that you can't plug and play this stuff, if you want a Waystone without the dual foundation you have to design a version that doesn't have it.
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I wasn't referring to separate designs - I was asking if separate foundations made according to the same design for the same model waystone are interchangeable. By default I'd say "no, each waystone is crafted as a single unit and you can't take a part from one and put it in the other, even if they're the same model waystone". Interchangeable parts is not something that happens by default, or particularly easily.

I asked since... well, if you can't just make a bunch of spare foundations and draw on those when the rest of the waystone is ready, then the rate at which the reverse engineered foundation's production method improves is bottlenecked by the rest of the waystone's production.

I feel this is a concern when we took one of the most difficult transmission mechanisms already.
 
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Aranfan said:
I honestly do feel like the leading plan snubs the dawi. If the current plan wins and they are happy with it I will be very glad to be wrong. Its just... when they only thing we need the dawi for is carving a rune that could be done by a mortal mason... why is thorek even here.

I think that if the leading plan does win we should work to make a mono-dawi one the dawi can use for their own purposes.
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Why would the Runesmiths of all people be upset with replicating the achievements of their Ancestors? They're some of the most traditional people on the planet. I don't understand why they would be upset with it.

Lokimotion said:
Reading the part on Runesmiths, I was very confused when it referred to them as the clan of Morgrim.

I'm happy with either Better Future plans, but they're both far ahead of any other plans and I do think that the reverse engineering option is the best, so I'm recasting my vote to just have that.
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Thungni originates from WFRP, not WFB. That means that the army books haven't ever mentioned him to my knowledge. I think I remember 7th Edition saying they were of the Clan of Morgrim too. Problem with that I am fairly sure I remember the army books also saying Morgrim was the Ancestor God of Engineering. Games Workshop's famous consistency! :V

My favorite plan is probably Repairing The Network First, but that's not going to win. I hope we can make that next time we design a waystone at least, so we can cover the areas that aren't near rivers with waystones. And another waystone we give to Ulthuan that they can make without throwing the Runesmiths into a tizzy. I think it is absolutely imperative that we give Ulthuan a waystone design with the Golden Age foundation. They have the most archmages in the world.

Well. Maybe Cathay has more. It's very possible there are a lot more Shugengan Lords than there are High Elf Archmages. But that's not my point. Anyways, Ulthuan having a waystone design with the Golden Age storage enchantment that it can deploy in Yvresse without needing to go through the absolutely pain of soothing the ego of Caledor (an impossible task if I have ever heard one), would moblize a lot more resources to simplify it.

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UDwarf said:
Now you can technically argue that "eventually" could mean "not for several centuries", but given that it was being noted as a problem with doing this, moving along with the expedition, and coming back afterwards, this would be a really misleading way to phrase that outcome. If letting a clogged waystone accumulate for even a year was safe, that would mean we would have been fine to just clog it and be on our way, with no meaningful risk of permanently breaking a waystone short of us dying in the expedition. Boney seems to pretty clearly be saying that's not an option here, so I expect golden age (or, presumably, reverse engineered) waystones with no outlet still can't accumulate more than a month or so of dhar without potential issues, and almost certainly not a turn.
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Hadn't noticed this. Do you know what Boney was referring to when he said that? He was referring to the full output of a nexus. These are the things that can depopulate provinces if made incorrectly.

The Dwarf network is very different than the rest of the network. I imagine the shere energy flow is also part of why they made entire mountains into the transmitting waystones. The mountain-waystones don't absorb any magic. They just take in magic from the one upstream of them, until eventually you get to the nexus. And Karag Dum is right in the Chaos Wastes. If there is any waystone that would explode if cut off after a few months, it would be one receiving the full output of a nexus drinking from the no-shit Chaos Wastes.

(Edit 2: I looked at it again and I'm not sure where it implied Boney was talking about Mathilde blocking the flow, heading to Dum, then returning. storryeater's comment doesn't seem to have mentioned unclogging it eventually. It just seemed to be about leaving clogged there indefinitely, until an idea to retake Vlag was come up with.)
 
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[X] Plan Building A Better Future
-[X] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
-[X] [RUNE] Dwarven
-[X] [STORAGE] [Expensive] Runed
-[X] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord
-[X] [TRANSMISSION] Both (Jade Riverine)

I don't like expensive, nor the need for runesmiths. I would have preferred Moderate Materials. But Karaz-a-Karak is decently wealthy, and however much they refine the technique on reverse engineering, I don't think the skill needed=archmage bottleneck is going to improve by much. I give it reasonable odds that it only ever goes down to 'a magister-level human enchanter is required'. Nor is production going to reduce to anything less than difficult, whereas the dwarven runes are simple and don't require a runelord.
 
MrHobbit said:
Thungni originates from WFRP, not WFB. That means that the army books haven't ever mentioned him to my knowledge. I think I remember 7th Edition saying they were of the Clan of Morgrim too. Problem with that I am fairly sure I remember the army books also saying Morgrim was the Ancestor God of Engineering. Games Workshop's famous consistency! :V
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Morgrim gets namedropped where the others don't because he has a fairly important narrative role dating back to the 4th edition Dwarfs book- he was the last Dwarf to see Grimnir as he marched north, and Grimnir gave him one of his axes, the one wielded by the High King.

But the importance of that is that Morgrim is Grimnir's son, and the sections that associate him with Runesmithing call him Grungni's son.

Unless they're talking about a different Morgrim, which is entirely possible- there's already two other notable Morgrims in the general Dwarf history; Morgrim Elgidum the cousin of Snorri Halfhand, who struck down Imladrik the brother of Caledor II, and High King Morgrim Blackbeard, who fought the Troll Wars.

Offhand I'm not sure if Morgrim is ever associated with Engineering in the army books. The only association 8th edition Dwarfs gives Morgrim-son-of-Grimnir is with warriors, stating that he's the ancestor of Clan Gunnisson*.

*Important note, that is Clan Gunnisson the heirs to Mount Silverspear, no relation to Gotrek Gurnisson
 
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Prime 2.0 said:
I wasn't referring to separate designs - I was asking if separate foundations made according to the same design for the same model waystone are interchangeable. By default I'd say "no, each waystone is crafted as a single unit and you can't take a part from one and put it in the other, even if they're the same model waystone". Interchangeable parts is not something that happens by default, or particularly easily.

I asked since... well, if you can't just make a bunch of spare foundations and draw on those when the rest of the waystone is ready, then the rate at which the reverse engineered foundation's production method improves is bottlenecked by the rest of the waystone's production.

I feel this is a concern when we took one of the most difficult transmission mechanisms already.
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This would be a challenge for the runic storage option, as you'd need to co-locate the runesmiths with the enchanters or have part built Waystones criss-crossing the continent.

It's a small thing, but no foundation option reverse engineered. The storage unit could be.

One issue here is that we don't know if difficulty of construction is strongly correlated with time to construct. Something could be easy to make but take ages, or very hard to make but be done quickly if you get it to work.

Curtains said:
I don't like expensive, nor the need for runesmiths. I would have preferred Moderate Materials. But Karaz-a-Karak is decently wealthy, and however much they refine the technique on reverse engineering, I don't think the skill needed=archmage bottleneck is going to improve by much. I give it reasonable odds that it only ever goes down to 'a magister-level human enchanter is required'. Nor is production going to reduce to anything less than difficult, whereas the dwarven runes are simple and don't require a runelord.
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There could be an awful lot more elves capable and willing to learn to perform magister level enchantment than there are runesmths available to make storage runes.

There are lots of demands on runesmiths' time and there are a lot of underemployed Cityborn Eonir. Plus there's the potential to expand the pool of potential Wind enchanters to the Damsels in future.

As a result, I'm pretty confident that the eventual production rate of the reverse engineered design will be comparable or higher than the runic storage design, and it will always be an awful lot cheaper.

On Karaz-a-Karak's wealth, it has opened its coffers, but it's opened them to fund the build up for the Silver Road War. I don't think we can assume cost is that reduced as an issue because we can rely on the High King's funding.
 
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[X] Plan Building A Better Future
[X] Plan Building A Better Future (With reverse engineering)

I dunno lol
 
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