Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Sin City is the story I've heard described as Grimdark before.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Australia
Grimdark is 'things are bad and can never get better'. Any configuration with "noble" or "bright" in it shouldn't exist, because it describes every normal ass setting/story and so has no value when discussing media.
EDIT: I find that giving "grim" and "dark" specific, different definitions for those fake genres to be especially egregious because they're synonyms that were only meant to describe 40k as a bad, bad place.
EDIT: I find that giving "grim" and "dark" specific, different definitions for those fake genres to be especially egregious because they're synonyms that were only meant to describe 40k as a bad, bad place.
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Marienburg has a ton of infrastructure and institutional momentum behind it, so it's still going to be the port of choice for many, many merchants—which is why Fooger isn't too worried about the future of the city.
However, opening up an internal trade route from Erengard to Altdorf to Barak Varr is going to see the flow of people, goods, and wealth through Marienburg slow down, and there will be some losses amongst the less financial stable houses who just cant assume that large fortunes will walk up to them and knock on the door any more.
In order to succeed, Marienburg will have to prove it's still the best place to trade, and that will mean developing fairer and more competitive practices, whilst also losing the ability to extort the Empire.
Marienburg would also get weaker militarily as it becomes less wealthy. In a very real sense for them gold is soldiers and ships. Given enough time and the Empire will be able to retake it, either by diplomatic annexation or more likely a reconquest war of some kind. It made sense that the burghers thought they could stay independent when they could blackmail the Empire with trade. Take that away and the city state between two larger and better armed neighbors suddenly looks a lot more vulnerable. At least the Empire speaks the same language and worships the same gods, the Bretonians would proclaim everyone in it peasants without a second thought and then break in the sumptuary taxes.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
I'm not sure à military intervention is the most likely resolution of the Marienbourg situation, at least not Ulthuan until has stopped its strategic ambiguity and clarified that it will not defend the city. If there's the possibility of direct conflict with the Asurs, I think the Empire would prefer a diplomatic solution, with the Asurs maybe enforcing some guarantees in Marienbourg's favour.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Marienburg will still retain monopoly over the flow of Ulthuani goods and major part of New world goods in general, as it is the only place Asur trade in Old World, but thats pretty much it yeah. Their monopoly is broken. That doesn´t mean they aren´t the better option for trade, but as long as they are not the only option, it doesn´t matter. Nerdasaurus is bang on.
EDIT: Of course, Ulthuani goods may lose on some value, as Imperials are probably not that interested in where do the elf trinkets they display come from, just that they are made by Elves, and thus Laurelorn is another spoke in that wheel.
EDIT: Of course, Ulthuani goods may lose on some value, as Imperials are probably not that interested in where do the elf trinkets they display come from, just that they are made by Elves, and thus Laurelorn is another spoke in that wheel.
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It really does depend who the next emperor is. Lutipold is a cautious statesman, his successor need not be and it's not like the Empire did not try to take he place before. I mean they lost, but they also did not have wizards of their own at the time.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm not sure that's the case, though. Elves trade plenty in Erengrad and in Bretonnia, Estalia, and Tilea.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
I am pretty sure that saying Marienburg has monopoly on Ulthuani goods is a oft repeated misconception because Boris outright said there was Elftown in the Erengard and trade happens there as well.
Also, Marienburg remains the most direct connection between the Empire and the Sea of Claws. If you wanted to go from, say, Altdorf to Salkalten, you have to either pass through Marienburg or go the long way around Tilea, Estalia and Bretonnia, which is far longer and more dangerous than just paying a toll. So Marienburg remains the best way to enter the Empire's rivers for anyone coming from Erengrad, or Bretonnia, or Ulthuan, or even Ostland/Nordland; or if the Empire wanted to move a fleet from Reikland to the coast.
Though of course, that might not all necessarily hold true if someone was to, say, build a canal between the Urskoy and the Lynsk...
Though of course, that might not all necessarily hold true if someone was to, say, build a canal between the Urskoy and the Lynsk...
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I think they might have a monopoly on Elf goods traded in the Empire. That is, Ulthuan merchants aren't going to set up shop in Salkalten.
You know one thing that would be kind of interesting from Baba N being the one to dominate the conversation is that it might get the Asur interested in spirit magic. Now granted I do not think the hags would be open to teaching their spirits to the elves, nor I imagine would trading youth work for the potentially immortal elves, but between the novel paradigm and the... interesting casting language Kislev might start to see some elven mages going around trying to get their big break researching the 'quaint local customs'.
Well, between continuous elven participation and possibility of elfcation, we'll prolly learn where Ulthuan stands on Marienburg issue at some point.
Both canals together alleviate the geostrategic pressure to do something dramatic about Marienburg, but they also make it easier - and bad will gonna take awhile to fade.
Both canals together alleviate the geostrategic pressure to do something dramatic about Marienburg, but they also make it easier - and bad will gonna take awhile to fade.
I think Marienburg is the best place to get elf goods, but certainly not the only place, and there would be plenty of human merchants traveling to and from Lothern to every other port in the Old World, so you'll see some circulating all over the place.
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
And one thing we're planning for the Elfcation is setting up KAU contracts in Lothern. It's no EIC, but a steady outflow of Asur books to an institution committed to allowing copies to be made is yet one more trade good removed from Marienburg's exclusive control.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
No I am pretty sure only thing Marienburg has monopoly of is the goods from New World. It is probably why Empire has Swamp Town at all, as Marienburg is only place elves sell goods from New World it makes sense that Empire would want its own town to bypass that.
But Ulthan Merchants are going to set shop in Altdorf, I am sure of it.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
What goods of the New World though? What is coming out of Arnheim or the Turtle Islands that makes it such a selling point? They're certainly not trading with the Lizardmen. They don't have any colonies set up near where the rest are.
I'm not sure breaking Marienburg's monopoly will make it less wealthy. Tarrifs and tolls tend to stiffle trade and be counter productive, while a more competitive marketplace tend to encourge innovation and growth.
Sure, canals mean that Marienburg will now face some competition, but provided they adapt even a little bit, they hold huge competitive advantages : prime location, pro-business environnement, relative freedom and democracy, enormous accumulated capital, cosmopolitan population, longstanding protectorate of the trade hegemon, etc.
If anything I think Marienburg might be headed for a golden age paradoxaly.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
It would be very funny. I like Marienbourg, so I think seeing them rise even more despite the Empire trying its best to stop them would be very cool.
That is a very modern perspective and it is not as applicable when the other side is ran by autocrats who can impose ruinous tariffs of their own to fund their wars and other projects or just because they do not like you. This is not an industrialized, globalized war, if you do not have a monopoly you are inherently less safe from those who do not like that you have a mere advantage. Sure if it could hold on to its position for long enough it would be fine, maybe even better than ever... but that is a very large if.
Marienburg entering a golden age from a neverending loop of: Mathilde has a canal built partly because Fuck Marienburg -> the canal indirectly benefits Marienburg too -> someone from Marienburg tells Mathilde that they're doing Pretty Well, Actually -> Mathilde starts building another canal because Fuck Marienburg -> ...
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Not how it works.
The canal making Marienburg more wealthy only makes it a positive for Marienburg if they benefit at least much or more than everybody else, proportionally to their wealth.
Otherwise, they become more wealthy in absolute terms but less wealthy relative to the competition, which is a loss of financial importance. For a city-state that relies on financial importance to maintain international relevance, that is a huge blow, because they don't have the land or manpower to try to compete in other ways.
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I'd love to get them involved in the WP, perhaps even just as financial backing, Waystones are expensive and Marienburg could use the diplomatic venue to secure their long term survival.
Plus, Mathilde could use the favour to perhaps get a BOOK deal, Marienburg does have a pretty nice library...
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Be it known among all peoples for all time: that the Merchant Houses of Westerland are named the exclusive agents of the Elfs of Ulthuan for all goods of the New World brought to the Old.
First line of treaty of Amity and Commerce, which is an agreement canon to this quest.
Its possible that elves have rather particular definition of the phrase Old World meaning only Empire, but i somehow doubt it.
There must be some legal loophole somewhere, maybe they don´t consider Ulthuani goods to be of New World, which would explain this. So yes i would be wrong, elven trinkets would be sold in Erengard and such too without infringing on the treaty.
That, or they don´t actually trade in those places. I dunno.
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Ulthuan isn't in the New World though, it is its own continent, the New World is swamps, monsters, plagues and angry lizards.... well unless you also want to count the place that is full of dark elves.