Based on what I remember from back when I cared about Fate 'EX means reeeeaaally strong' - rather than weird - was a common fanon misunderstanding that people constantly memed on. I could totally imagine the horny gambling game that is now the central pillar of the franchise having adopted that fanon, though.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
That is, in fact, how it used to work yeah. EX means "does not conform to powerscales". Whetever that is through overwhelming power or overwhelming noncomformity to any kind of categorization was up in the air.
I also kind of feel its weird to discuss FGO power rankings in quest thread tho.
- Location
- Utrecht
The Axes of Grimnir could be Ex after Gotrek survives the destruction of the planet.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I do not know Fate, but I know exactly what Gotrek's reaction on being summoned would be.
Murderous rage, at being denied his fracking well earned death!
Very true, but I prefer it to paranoid musing of what could go wrong after everything went alright, or the tenth rehash of some argument that can only be settled in the future when new information becomes available. We're in the time between updates, with not even a vote to cling to. It is a time of madness and searching and longing. This is far from the worst idol to gather around until the return of the true prophet. The worship, though perhaps confused and misdirected, is still sincere.
- Location
- Utrecht
From Gotrek's POV, the axes of Grimnir are truly cursed, cos they let him survive everything.
And you need your survivability to be "truly off the charts" i.e. EX
DM: Rocks fall, the planet explodes and everyone dies.
Axes of Grimnir: No.
DM: FINE! Make a fortitude save to survive the end of the world
Gotrek: PleaseFail!PleaseFail!PleaseFail!PleaseFail!PleaseFail!PleaseFail!
Axes of Grimnir: Nat 20
DM: ...
Gotrek: NOOOOOO!!
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- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Is that how it would go if you were to summon a slayer? Cause slayers are dwarf whom feel they've incured great shame right? And only through dying can they redem themself.
If you were to summon a slayer, you are summoning a dwarf that have actually fufilled their slayer oath. They shouldn't be bound to die, because they've cleansed their honor by dying allready.
Of course, that's kinda how it works technically. If that's how, say a dead slayer being summoned would feel is slightly up in the air.
If you were to summon a slayer, you are summoning a dwarf that have actually fufilled their slayer oath. They shouldn't be bound to die, because they've cleansed their honor by dying allready.
Of course, that's kinda how it works technically. If that's how, say a dead slayer being summoned would feel is slightly up in the air.
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I think slayers still do the eternal fighting in the Underneath, it's just that they can come into the hall for a bit for some bread and beer. Their honor even in death is less than that of dwarfs who were never slayers, well either that or they are by default considered fighters by the manner of their deaths.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Honestly, I feel bad for slayers: having made themselves over into people who only seek death to restore their honor, how many do you think die and then realize they can't actually change away from feeling like they need to struggle to restore their honor as souls? Would suck getting the death payoff but not the catharsis.
Probably not that many when you consider only the moment of death, a slayer is unlikely to end up lingering in death. As to what they feel in Gazul's realm, it depends on how being there changes them, I mean if nothing else their souls go though a kind of phase change and the world operates on different rules.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
So the question becomes: do souls need to be alive to grow and change? If yes, slayers get hurt coming and going. If no, then the afterlives become much more interesting places: all the foibles of people interacting, but no way to just go away from people you dislike, and no way to kill or die for resolutions.
It'd be like a shitty Twitter argument you could never log out of...
It'd be like a shitty Twitter argument you could never log out of...
I think logically souls should be able to grow and change, I mean we know daemons of Chaos change (within their purview, they have consistency and even something that looks like character arcs) and the daemons are much more of the warp than the souls of the dead are.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Don´t think it matters.
It depends on how the afterlives actually work. From their understanding:
1) They either die and their shame is erased and they go to the halls of their ancestors, which is proof enough of their redemption.
2) They reincarnate as another dwarf, don´t remember shit and have another go at being honorable enough to get into halls of their ancestors.
Or, if their understanding is not correct like Gunnars says disconcerns many:
3) They reincarnate as literally anything else and don´t ever remember being a dwarf, so no problem, again.
The third interpretation is the one that would devastate them most if they learned its true before dying.
There is also 4, and thats that no souls get recycled in warhammer and they just return to undeferentiated warpstuff and are never used as basis for someones soul ever.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Eh, I think you are conflating their shame being wiped away with them feeling as if their shame were wiped away. The first, yeah, that's mechanical. The second seems like it would require quite a lot of personal change from someone who has been dwelling on how they failed and deserve to die for months to decades.
I'm doubtful the second would be automatic and mechanical.
I'm doubtful the second would be automatic and mechanical.
- Location
- Utrecht
I think souls are able to change even after death.
That's why it's important to keep them safe.
Whether it's Gazul's Hall or Morr's garden.
I don't know what happens to human souls, they either dissolve or get reincarnated.
Dwarf souls probably retain enough memories to justify the sentiment of "you only have to suffer in a world that rejects you for one lifetime"
That's why it's important to keep them safe.
Whether it's Gazul's Hall or Morr's garden.
I don't know what happens to human souls, they either dissolve or get reincarnated.
Dwarf souls probably retain enough memories to justify the sentiment of "you only have to suffer in a world that rejects you for one lifetime"
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
The death restores the honor, I'm pretty sure. The one exception is the Slayer Kings.
See, I think it would for dwarves. Not for humans, but yes for dwarves. When we got stuff crossed out of the book of grudges for Karak Kadrin, all the dwarves relaxed slightly on the announcement.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Dwarven psychology works differently. Being unable to let go of unresolved grudges/shame, feeling those as fresh as if they only just happened, must come with the ability to resolve these feelings just as sharply when the wrongs have been righted. Sure, a human would not just snap out of the death spiral when they've redeemed themselves, but most humans wouldn't enter a death spiral and stay in it on the same premises in the first place. Human psychology is much stretchier compared to dwarves.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I suppose its possibility that Dwarfs are so self-recriminating because they end up being populated by millenia upon millenia of Slayer souls given improper rites, but i think that would mean all of them would be so, because thats a helluva queue.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I mean, in a just and fair world that would be true.
My doubt creeps in when I think about slayers being concerned their death was too small- getting chumped by a goblin hardly seems like it would count, and going for the biggest death possible seems like the thing slayers are very focused on.
- Location
- Finland
Even if we were to assume most, or even all, Slayers end up reincarnating due to improper rites (or feeling that their death was inadequate so they decide to go back for another go).
They would still be a tiny minority of dawi society, and, barring very unlikely set of circumstances, will end up not goingSlayer again, and will then get out of circulation.
They would still be a tiny minority of dawi society, and, barring very unlikely set of circumstances, will end up not goingSlayer again, and will then get out of circulation.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
From what we see in the lore and quest, that doesn't seem to be the case. Remember the charge vs the Trolls? The non-slayers were happy the slayers found death, the slayers were sad they didn't find death. No one cared about how they died, only that they died vs an enemy.
- Location
- USA
- Location
- Deep in a bog
Hey, long-time lurker finally deciding to comment on this quest. I'm not sure if I'll do this often.
Anyway, Boney, I have a question regarding the Colleges of Magic. Do the other Colleges have their own equivalent to Burning Shadows and Shadowsteed? By that, I mean a spell that seems super useful at first but has some limitations that limit its usefulness to magisters, and a spell that doesn't seem impressive at a glance but is surprisingly useful. I thought this after reading about Matilda consoling herself about not having a certain spell by thinking about Sadowsteed.
Anyway, Boney, I have a question regarding the Colleges of Magic. Do the other Colleges have their own equivalent to Burning Shadows and Shadowsteed? By that, I mean a spell that seems super useful at first but has some limitations that limit its usefulness to magisters, and a spell that doesn't seem impressive at a glance but is surprisingly useful. I thought this after reading about Matilda consoling herself about not having a certain spell by thinking about Sadowsteed.
It's not obvious so you might have easily missed it, but if you go to the Informational threadmarks, you can find a post called "Spellbooks". At first it just seems like Grey Magic spells, but if you scroll all the way down there are tabs where you can open the spellbooks for the other colleges and see what tricks they have. Reading them, you can judge for yourself if the spells seem useful but with tricky conditions. (Since that is after all a matter of opinion.)
