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For the deployment of actual Waystones I think I would be good to step back a bit from maximizing social benefit and consider the political benefit.
And so I think we should start deployment on Reikland, present the fruits of our labors to the Emperor and the Colleges of magic so it can start benefiting the heartland.
This way we fullfill the requirement of having the project benefit the Empire first and get a jumpstart on getting the clout and resources to realy spread deployment everywhere.
 
For the deployment of actual Waystones I think I would be good to step back a bit from maximizing social benefit and consider the political benefit.
And so I think we should start deployment on Reikland, present the fruits of our labors to the Emperor and the Colleges of magic so it can start benefiting the heartland.
This way we fullfill the requirement of having the project benefit the Empire first and get a jumpstart on getting the clout and resources to realy spread deployment everywhere.
I'm not sure there's really any need in Reikland though.

Like, it's pretty well served by the existing network. I'm not sure putting up more Waystones would even have much effect to work off of.

The main place in the province that might benefit is the Reikwald, and the only Leylines we have that we might be able to get working at the moment are river-based, which won't help with the Reikwald.
 
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Mordheim was right next to the Stir river, but it was actually in Ostermark. I think it's more likely that a hypothetical Sylvanian nexus was where either Drakenhof (town) or Drakenhof (castle) were.
Just realised what this was saying.

The fact that Mordheim isn't in Sylvania doesn't mean it wasn't the local nexus though. They won't have been built with as yet-non existent borders in mind. That said, there might not be a Sylvanian Nexus. Zhufbar used to flash flood the place on the regular after all. Perhaps the Elven/Dwarf alliance never bothered to build one, and the Waystones in the area were later creations by the Belthani or something.
 
For the deployment of actual Waystones I think I would be good to step back a bit from maximizing social benefit and consider the political benefit.
And so I think we should start deployment on Reikland, present the fruits of our labors to the Emperor and the Colleges of magic so it can start benefiting the heartland.
This way we fullfill the requirement of having the project benefit the Empire first and get a jumpstart on getting the clout and resources to realy spread deployment everywhere.
I don't think we particularly need to strengthen ties with Reikland when we're already on good terms with them, and the whole "benefiting the Empire" thing could also be served by doing Sylvania.
 
That said, there might not be a Sylvanian Nexus. Zhufbar used to flash flood the place on the regular after all.
The post says that it flash-flooded the Moot and Averland, it doesn't say anything about Sylvania.
The Great Pumps of Morgrim, lost, and now most believe Zhufbar was named for the miniscule waterfall it now hosts, rather than the torrential flash-draining of the Black Water for the mining of its bed, which destroyed the dark and terrible forests that once dominated what was now known as Averland and the Moot long before the arrival of humanity.

The update in Ostermark suggested that Mordheim ran north to Gross Selon. In general, the Waystone network is pushing magic southwest towards Ulthuan; I'm not sure it'd make sense to have Sylvanian magic running all the way up to northern Ostermark rather than just routing it west through Stirland.

You consult a mental map. "Some village, starts with K. South of that, Rhebulas, which is barely a town. And... oh. Mordheim. We're exactly north of Mordheim."

The two of you stare at the southern obelisk, and you quickly conclude that it's probably for the best that there's no longer a torrent of incoming energy from that accursed ruin. "Okay, I don't like that. What about..." Johann frowns at the north-eastern one, "about half a point east of northeast from here?"
 
Seems like spells where a primary limitation is the presence of other Wizards to notice their use and object, are somewhat less limited if there aren't any other Wizards in your domain. Granted they may be tricky for, say, a Journeywoman to learn. :)

Hi, how's it going for you, Doyenne Gretel Maurer of the Cessationary Princessipality, Huntsmistress of the Howling Skull Plains, Guardian of the East Trail, Cleanser of Vitrolle, Monitor Of Pass Traffic and imposing ruler of mile upon mile of open rangeland.
I wonder if, under the quest's paradigm, these big FC spells are the result of good luck while spell-creating (something like how Knightbringer ended up Fiendishly Complex), or if it's a natural result of the Wind in question tending towards things that are big and flashy despite not needing such large amounts of it.

Hell, maybe during their process there was a 'flaw' and they became very blatant when they otherwise could have been subtle.

The other main possibility would be Vanheldenschlosse.

It has a more centralized position in Sylvania (Drakenhof is more south by the mountains), and actually has established settlements to the west of it where Drakenhof just has the Haunted Hills.

The path might have been Vanheldenschlosse down to Leicheburg down the path towards the Moot.
Also possible. Maybe Vlad knew this when he approached Vanhal? Certainly, having a corrupted waystone next to you would have been tremendously useful to power any number of Necromantic spells and rituals.

The fact that Mordheim isn't in Sylvania doesn't mean it wasn't the local nexus though. They won't have been built with as yet-non existent borders in mind. That said, there might not be a Sylvanian Nexus. Zhufbar used to flash flood the place on the regular after all. Perhaps the Elven/Dwarf alliance never bothered to build one, and the Waystones in the area were later creations by the Belthani or something.
Also true! I would have to recheck the maps, but I don't think the elves ever went so far east in the first place.
 
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I know Beastmen like to turn Waystones into Herdstones. Is there anyone else likely to turn it into something nasty instead if just breaking it?
As noted pretty much anyone whod like a giant source of free Dhar hanging around, and that's what clogging a Waystone does.

For the deployment of actual Waystones I think I would be good to step back a bit from maximizing social benefit and consider the political benefit.
And so I think we should start deployment on Reikland, present the fruits of our labors to the Emperor and the Colleges of magic so it can start benefiting the heartland.
This way we fullfill the requirement of having the project benefit the Empire first and get a jumpstart on getting the clout and resources to realy spread deployment everywhere.
Ehh even if we want to play the politics game.

1. You could argue our host, Laurelorn really deserves to have the first big ticket item.

2. Reikland being pretty well covered already means the political gains are probably minimal since there wouldn't be any obvious improvements for anyone without good windsight. Which is like pretty much any noble.
 
I'm not sure there's really any need in Reikland though.
That is kind my point, to not think just is terms of who has the most need, but what would bring more benefit.
Also we should remenber that the network has spent the last few milenia deteriorating, there are holes everywhere, is just some places are worst that others.

I don't think we particularly need to strengthen ties with Reikland when we're already on good terms with them, and the whole "benefiting the Empire" thing could also be served by doing Sylvania.
Is not about ties with Reikland, but starting deployment on the right foot with the official Imperal seal of approval.

I don't think we should assume deploying the waystones as a given, it is going to take much more investment than the tributaries, for very obscure benefits, wich makes me somewhat worried those who aren't as deperate as Sylvania may not want to invest, and on the other hand if Sylvania could even afford to invest.

So I want to start as an Imperial Project, for prestige, momentun and potential subsidies. To grease future deployments. Basicaly I want to sit with Luitpold and Dragomass to plan Empire deployment.
 
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Is not about ties with Reikland, but starting deployment on the right foot with the official Imperal seal of approval.
I'm not sure Luitpold is so selfish or short-sighted to the point where he will only bother if the Waystones are in his personal province. And besides, he's the Emperor, and while that does mean needing to play politics to do things outside of Reikland, there's a reason they even have that office instead of each province being its own kingdom, so as long as we can make a good pitch (which we should outside multiple diplo nat 1s, because Waystones are in fact important) he can have something to throw at whoever it is needs dealing with.
 
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That is kind my point, to not think just is terms of who has the most need, but what would bring more benefit.
Luitpold was noted as having above-average foresightedness (because he agreed to hear Mathilde out about a very vague and long-term thing when the Empire has in-your-face crises every decade or so), and I think that kinda sorta also translates to caring about the Empire as a whole, rather than prioritizing small benefits in a relatively well-off province over large benefits in one that desperately needs it. And he also trusts wizards enough to make a royal decree that amounts to "have at it!" when the Black College became known.

If Mathilde reports results saying "hey we can make That One Cursed Goddamn Place less cursed!" and the place in question is a significant chunk of a province and a persistent source of necromancers and walking dead (that walk on their own by this point), resources will damn well be given for that. And even if there's a problem with that, there won't be any less of a problem with heavily investing into making Reikland slightly nicer.
 
That is kind my point, to not think just is terms of who has the most need, but what would bring more benefit.
Well the thing is we won't really get that much benefit as a "reward" if we're not actually helping that much. That being said I think there's ONE thing we could potentially do in Reikland that would be a weight off Luitpold's shoulders, which is if we somehow managed to rerout around Athel Yenlui. Still gotta make sure it's defended but it becomes MERELY "need to defend this new place because it turns out it's the reason my province is a breadbasket" instead of "need to defend this new place because it turns out it's the reason my province is a breadbasket, but ALSO because if something goes wrong it might be the only way to keep the entire continent from turning into the Bad Magic."
 
The post says that it flash-flooded the Moot and Averland, it doesn't say anything about Sylvania.
I'm not sure that makes sense based on maps of where Zhufbar is, but sure.

The update in Ostermark suggested that Mordheim ran north to Gross Selon. In general, the Waystone network is pushing magic southwest towards Ulthuan; I'm not sure it'd make sense to have Sylvanian magic running all the way up to northern Ostermark rather than just routing it west through Stirland.
In the quote you just mentioned, they're already north of Mordheim. Why would it be pushing the energy northwards from there either? My read is either that this circle sent energy south and has been rerouted or that sending it north to Erengrad was better (it seems like the Network travels better over water?). Sending it south means it has to reach Marienburg at least before it heads to Ulthuan.
 
so as long as we can make a good pitch
If Mathilde reports results saying "hey we can make That One Cursed Goddamn Place less cursed!"

I fell the point people are missing is that we need to go make that pitch.

The way deployments have been working we go to a place and work our way down, we went to Sylvania we talked with Roswita, Kislec Tzar didn't care, so we went to Boris and if we had rejected him we would work directly with the witches. It folows that if we deploy to Sylvania we talk with Nyklaus first.

Therefore, Reikland, because that is the option where we pitch our service to Luitpold. Because it is more efficitent to work you way down then up.
 
Luitpold is the Emperor. We pitch our service to him by improving the Empire. And on the scale of the Empire, investing these resources into Sylvania is far more beneficial than Reikland.
Okay, explain this sequence of events to me, why going to Sylvania talk with Nyklaus would make Luitpold more aware then talking with Roswita did ?
 
Okay, explain this sequence of events to me, why going to Sylvania talk with Nyklaus would make Luitpold more aware then talking with Roswita did ?
What? When did Nyklaus enter into this?

I'm saying that telling the Emperor and/or Dragomas that we can un-Dhar Sylvania is a better option if we need to go to them at all for resources than pitching a slight improvement to Reikland.

Spending AP and dedicating available expertise to less cursed provinces just because someone powerful lives in there, when the clock is already ticking down to the next Everchosen, is a poor move, and I don't think either Luitpold or Dragomas would go for it despite them both being based in Altdorf.
 
In any hypothetical continuance of the Waystone project we would need to do things fort. Map the waystone network and see which ones can be repaired or replaced. Train of personal and establish infrastructure for building waystones. Gather military force to secure waystone sites. Establish counter intelligence to prevent enemies stealing knowledge of waystones or sabotage of project.

While building waystones would be a boon to anyone sane or order races. Chaos and others will want the waystones destroyed or corrupted.
 
TBH I'm pretty sure if we go to Luitpold asking about resources for building waystones in Sylvania... he'll maybe put a little bit towards it but mostly just point us straight at Roswita, just as a function of how devolved the empire is (when it comes to the individual provinces that is, rather less so within those provinces.) Resouces aren't so plentiful that he can just offer them up without first scrounging them up FROM somewhere, where they're usually already invested in doing Something. Even in his own province when he heard about Athel Yenlui it was "okay how can we rearrange the military forces that already exist to cover this new thing" rather than "alright let's raise up a New Regiment for this New Duty."
 
The main "stretch goal" would be to figure out how to replace or repair nexi.

At that point, several massive new categories of things to do open up - specifically, setting up new nexi to add redundancy to the network, connecting previously separate network links, and reclaiming and cleansing corrupted nexi.

That last one is a doozy - trying to reclaim Mordheim or the Brass Keep is gonna be a ton of work.
 
The brass keep has been on and off in imperial hands throughout it's history, I doubt it's in great shape but it does seem like if you kick out the chaos warriors (or in the past the greenskins, or the necromancers, or etc etc etc) it's not MORDHEIM bad.
 
This is somewhat paradoxical and frustrating to consider, but I think it's likely that in spreading tributaries to Kislev and making it clear to others that we have Boris' full support, the rest of the Empire might be more willing to spend resources on the Project, approving wizards putting up tributaries and eventually letting us put them up actual waystones at certain places.

As others have mentioned, Luitpold felt that he was being told that the Empire needs to stretch itself even thinner, and it's hard to justify resources for that, and even then that was considered above-average forethought. But if they start seeing Kislev throw its full weight behind the Project because it wants to survive, the Elector-counts may end up wanting the network reinforced in their own provinces. They might not fully understand their importance (since they're not wizards), but people do understand getting left out.

And not wanting to be last on something is one of those things that you can count on to motivate people.

One other factors that would hopefully make people sit up and listen is that we have two likely ways to get the rest of the Colleges completely on board with the Project: the Orbflex, and Elfdad showing up and going "I'm proud of you, my children". And with their support, any estimates on how long it would take to fully cover the provinces with tributaries would go down dramatically.
 
The update in Ostermark suggested that Mordheim ran north to Gross Selon. In general, the Waystone network is pushing magic southwest towards Ulthuan; I'm not sure it'd make sense to have Sylvanian magic running all the way up to northern Ostermark rather than just routing it west through Stirland.
According to the Talabecland Hedgewise there's a missing Talabecland Nexus in the form of the Marcher Fortress, which according to canon sources was probably somewhere around Sydow. Sydow is directly west of Mordheim, so there might have been a Mordheim-Sydow line (possibly via Ossino, see here) heading to Reikland or Nuln. Between the Moot line going along the Aver and a Mordheim leyline going along the Stir there was probably enough to cover northern and southern Sylvania, even without a Drakenhof nexus. Though I would still bet on a Drakenhof nexus, if only because of the Hexensohn debacle.
Sending it south means it has to reach Marienburg at least before it heads to Ulthuan.
If there really was a Mordheim flow west through the Marcher Fortress than in the original network it wouldn't have to go through Marienburg, since there were passes west both through Athel Loren and Ahtel Yenlui. I would guess the Mordheim-Gross selon line was originally southbound, then heading west via the Marcher Fortress either to Reikland or Nuln (or both, I suppose) and from there to one of the two mountain passes.
 
Okay, explain this sequence of events to me, why going to Sylvania talk with Nyklaus would make Luitpold more aware then talking with Roswita did ?
Luitpold is already aware of the project, we gave him the report and everything
"Disquieting nevertheless. Thank you for your work in this endeavour, Lady Magister, and I task you with continuing it. The benefits you describe are worthwhile, and though I do not like to hear of these hitherto unknown vulnerabilities, I'd much rather know about them now than when the razing of some southern village dooms the continent."

"It is an honour to serve, your Majesty. I will pass word of any further developments via the Supreme Patriarch."
He wasn't as excited about it as he could have been, as his main take away was "Here are several vulnerabilities in the Empire you weren't aware of that need attention"
But he understands what's happening and why it's important, and he gave the explicit order to keep going, so it has his support in broad strokes at least


I get the idea of seeking clout and resources to further the project
The issue is that you are, frankly, going about it in completely the wrong way
Because you seem to be under the assumption that if we build some Waystones in a Province, that Province will necessarily find the project beneficial
Despite the fact that setting up more Waystones in an already well covered area like Reikland will have very minor effects, if any

People who aren't Wizards do not understand magic and the creation of a Waystone is not impressive to them, in and of itself
If you build a bunch of Waystones in the Reikland, which will have limited effect because it already has good coverage, they won't get excited
You've set up a bunch of big magic rocks, and you're saying that these magic rocks are a good thing, but if you can't present a visible benefit that they can grasp to back that up then it's just words

The social benefit and the political benefit are in fact tied at the hip here, because political clout is best gained by building the new Waystones in blighted areas where the Network has been compromised
Because that produces actual, visible results by removing the blight
And that's what you then take to the important people you want to impress to point at and say "so this is what I've accomplished, I'd like some more funding so I can do it in more places"
You demonstrate the importance and usefulness of the Waystones by erecting them in the places that most need them, that's how you drum up support for it
"The skeletons stopped rising from the dead and taking people every week" is going to sell a lot better than "Ambient magic is down by another 5%"

Erecting Waystones in areas already well covered doesn't produce noticeable gain, and thus doesn't give people a reason to care
 
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