Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Come the reconquest of Mount Silverspear, we should totally learn that foggy Cataclism magic Mist of Shadows and ask the dwarves to field expenses for powerstones to cast it. You know, cause Wizards as another type of cannons should naturally also be supplied with appropriate ammunition just as everyone else.

And then imagine, Mathilde infiltrates the mountain, assassinates anybody who could conceivably interfere or counterspell, casts the spell, no miscast, choking darkness clouds the halls and passages and almost everything inside the mountain dies, no precious dwarven lifes need to be spend! Mathilde the Dwarf, Wizard Hero of the Karaz Ankor, single-handedly* reclaims another Karak!

*debatable, but as the song goes :)
 
myrix said:
Come the reconquest of Mount Silverspear, we should totally learn that foggy Cataclism magic Mist of Shadows and ask the dwarves to field expenses for powerstones to cast it. You know, cause Wizards as another type of cannons should naturally also be supplied with appropriate ammunition just as everyone else.

And then imagine, Mathilde infiltrates the mountain, assassinates anybody who could conceivably interfere or counterspell, casts the spell, no miscast, choking darkness clouds the halls and passages and almost everything inside the mountain dies, no precious dwarven lifes need to be spend! Mathilde the Dwarf, Wizard Hero of the Karaz Ankor, single-handedly* reclaims another Karak!

*debatable, but as the song goes :)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm pretty sure casting a Cataclysm spell with a Powerstone does not guarantee you'll cast it without consequences.

If the thread is scared about learning and casting Pit of Shades, I don't think the thread is prepared for Cataclysm magic. Even if our staff reduces the difficulty by one step, it would still be as hard to cast as high end Battle Magic.
 
myrix said:
And then imagine, Mathilde infiltrates the mountain, assassinates anybody who could conceivably interfere or counterspell, casts the spell, no miscast, choking darkness clouds the halls and passages and almost everything inside the mountain dies,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm gonna be honest, this is an amazingly cool image and also objectively terrifying. The Shadow that Came to the Mountain.
 
Boney said:
"A generous gift, from an unexpected quarter." Daroir smiles in anticipation. "It is a rare gambit of Teclis that does not bear fruit. I am glad to see the blossoming of this flower."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So I was looking back at some of the old updates and noticed this, from when we first got the option for Elfcation. Similar to the whole "fistful of gold" metaphor, it really makes me wonder what Daroir would consider Mathilde to be now, with the Waystone Project and all.
 
I really recommend rereading Turn 42 part 2 and part 3 for anyone engaging in apparition theorycraft, by the way.

There's a lot you can get out of those chapters in terms of understanding how to do good apparition binding, and I'm very much still in the process of wrapping my head around everything in them myself.
 
Ericwinter said:
So I was looking back at some of the old updates and noticed this, from when we first got the option for Elfcation. Similar to the whole "fistful of gold" metaphor, it really makes me wonder what Daroir would consider Mathilde to be now, with the Waystone Project and all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Daroir personally, not much different would be my guess. It is worth keeping in mind that what impact we made was very minor to a background problem that most elves do not really think about in their day to day lives. I mean sure, they probably all learned about it at some point, but one has to keep in mind where this guy comes from. It is not a lack of Waystones that sank his home and made it a ruin and a tombstone for his people's honor.
 
Codex said:
If the thread is scared about learning and casting Pit of Shades, I don't think the thread is prepared for Cataclysm magic. Even if our staff reduces the difficulty by one step, it would still be as hard to cast as high end Battle Magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, you're right, it would still be difficult Battle Magic, but I'm hoping the thread could be convinced to risk it for the coolness factor OOC and to prevent as many dwarven deaths as possible IC, especially as their populations are still dwindling AFAIK, at least in all the Old Holds.

IC Mathilde is brave enough and likes the dwarves enough to do what she can to help them. And we still need to, as Egrimm teased way back then, to unleash The Mathilde Age! :)
Boney said:
"Is that why you do what you do? Hoping to single-handedly heal the Dwarven soul?"

You shrug. "If it happens I'll take it, but I joined Belegar because Abelhelm died and I didn't know what else to do with myself, and I found Vlag because I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with the right talents. I can't grab the entire Dwarven race by the beards and shake them until they stop looking backward and start looking forward. But I like them, so I'll do what I can to make the world a better place for them."

"There's a line for their history books. 'The Mathilde Age: She liked us, so she made the world a better place for us'." You roll your eyes at his teasing, but can't help smiling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
So thoughts on the Vladimir assassination, obviously this is all very general since we do not know what circumstances we are working with, but just as a vehicle for speculation pros and cons for various options mentioned in the thread:

Vanishing Tzar

Pros
+We can do it by whatever means we like, since we are not planning to leave any evidence, we could cut off his head with our sowrd and be done with it as long as we find him alone
+We can guarantee a clean death, or an honorable one if he wants to go down as a warrior and tell Boris that, it might make him feel a bit less terrible about the whole thing than some of the other things on here

Cons
-Uncertainty will make the transition of power harder for Boris
-Potential pretenders, how hard it is for say a Champion of Slaanesh to flesh-shape themselves into the guise of a dead man say?

Disguise (Skaven)

Pros
+We can use some Ulgu since we are playing a Clan Eshin assassin
+We aim attention away from ourselves and onto someone who can never clear their name because... well obvious reasons

Cons
-We need weapons, and warpstone
-Shooting is not Mathilde's best offensive skill by a longshot
-That post-cognition spell might be able to see through illusion, we do not know how spirits 'see'

Disguise (Champion of Tzeench/Slaanesh)

Pros
+It directs Kislev's anger at again someone who cannot clear their name
+It directs Kislev's anger at the actual present threat from the North
+We can use Ulgu since both of the above have Ulgu

Cons
-We would have to pretend to be a Chaos worshiper while we know at least one of the Gods is actively watching if not several of them, they might take the opportunity to act in some subtle manner
-We would be giving Chaos an actual win, unlike with the skaven the perception of their power might actually damn the souls of people who give in to despair
-That post-cognition spell might be able to see through illusion, we do not know how spirits 'see'

Open Poisoning

Pros
+Very few moving part, just put something in his food between when the food-taster tastes it and when he eats i (if Vlad even employs such a person)
+We can use common poisons that could be acquired anywhere and we have a trustworthy person to help with brewing it

Cons
-It is clearly an assassination and Boris is an obvious suspect just because he is the heir, he would be starting his reign under a cloud
-It could conceivably fail. This is warhammer 'X resists ten times lethal dose of hemlock until they make it to the priest to heal them' is not beyond the realm of possibility and on the off chance that happens follow up attempts just got harder

Fake natural causes

Pros
+If we can pull it off this is the smoothest possible transition
+It would be painless, he would just not wake up, just that little bit of peace to Boris

Cons
-Like open poisoning but harder since you need to fool investigators and Mathilde is not an expert, frankly I do not think Panoramia is either, 'how to seamlessly poison someone' does not sound like the kind of thing the Jades would teach as part of potions class
-If it gets discovered we are back to Boris being a suspect but worse since by the time it comes out he will already have committed to it being natural causes

Hunting Trip Gone Wrong

Pros
+It is entirely an in character way for Vladimir to die, more so than say dying in his sleep so you will have fewer people being suspicious and checking less thoroughly
+It is a form of 'natural causes' that you can have neutral witnesses to, making it all the stronger

Cons
-Moving parts... all the moving parts, the monster could faceplant, he could realize he is being manipulated/poisoned there are just so many ways this could fail to actually get the job done
-Mathilde is not an expert in wrangling dangerous beasts or the like

Anyone have thoughts? Other suggestions?
 
Last edited:
NexusEye said:
There's straight up stabbing him with Branulhune or Shadow Dagger, either separate him from his bodyguards or distract them with something and stab him while they're not looking, it's obvious that it's an assassination but they'll have no idea who did it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That is about as simple as it gets I'm betting we could do it in hours not days, but outside of that kind of time crunch I do not think it's a good idea.

Shadow Daggers imply the possibility of Ulgu I would not want to do that without offering some kind of framejob, Branulhune is less obvious, but on the off off chance that someone makes that connection there is only one Branulhune
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
Open Poisoning

Pros
+Very few moving part, just put something in his food between when the food-taster tastes it and when he eats i (if Vlad even employs such a person)
+We can use common poisons that could be acquired anywhere and we have a trustworthy person to help with brewing it

Cons
-It is clearly an assassination and Boris is an obvious suspect just because he is the heir, he would be starting his reign under a cloud
-It could conceivably fail. This is warhammer 'X resists ten times lethal those of hemlock until they make it to the priest to heal them' is not beyond the realm of possibility and on the off chance that happens follow up attempts just got harder
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You could include any mundane method of assassination here, from knives to a bomb.

It would essentially have the same arguments ror and against using it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Disguise (Champion of Tzeench/Slaanesh)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
-It means a Ranaldite commiting literal blasphemy while murdering the ruler of Kislev, at a time when Ranald is attempting to build bridges with the Kislev pantheon.
DragonParadox said:
Hunting Trip Gone Wrong
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
+It allows us to attack the Tzar outside of his power base (so we don't need to get past the defences of Bokha Palace etc.)
+Little chance of magic users being present (Ice Witches are present in Kislev city, as much as the Tzar doesn't like it, but Ice Witches probably don't accompany Vladimir on his campaigns)

-It requires us to attack the Tzar at a time that he is alert and excepting confrontation (and surronded by guards/soldiers etc.)
-Chance of collateral damage, the target the Tzar is hunting might hurt his guards and such

Haven't given much thought to to the other methods, and really I think this discussion is premature since we'll probably need to case him first and then we'll have more information to work with.
 
mathymancer said:
-It means a Ranaldite commiting literal blasphemy while murdering the ruler of Kislev, at a time when Ranald is attempting to build bridges with the Kislev pantheon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fair, I think the risk of Chaos doing something suss is probably worse, Ranald can handle his own shit and if he does not want Mathilde doing something he has proved entirely capable of trolling communication :V

mathymancer said:
+Little chance of magic users being present (Ice Witches are present in Kislev city, as much as the Tzar doesn't like it, but Ice Witches probably don't accompany Vladimir on his campaigns)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

While this is true, I do not think 'in the same city' is really close enough to meddle in an assassination, those tend to happen too fast unless the person is on the scene

I agree with all your other points.
 
DragonParadox said:
-That post-cognition spell might be able to see through illusion, we do not know how spirits 'see'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's described as being like a trance vision, so who knows. And of course, this also assumes that a) Hag Witches will offer to peer into the past, and b) Boris doesn't just go "no, while I like the Witches, my father didn't and I don't want to disrespect his memory, I will investigate mundanely, but I thank you for asking".

...On this general note, I wonder if Mockery of Death -> asphyxiation is enough to fake natural causes or if it would be noticed by the local doctors. Presumably his lungs would simply stop working, which would be different from his heart failing, but it might be subtle enough.
 
Parabola said:
...On this general note, I wonder if Mockery of Death -> asphyxiation is enough to fake natural causes or if it would be noticed by the local doctors. Presumably his lungs would simply stop working, which would be different from his heart failing, but it might be subtle enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If we used Mockery of Death we'd still need to smother him somehow.

(If the spell caused you to stop breathing it wouldn't be Mockery of Death, it'd just be Death)
 
Mopman43 said:
If we used Mockery of Death we'd still need to smother him somehow.

(If the spell caused you to stop breathing it wouldn't be Mockery of Death, it'd just be Death)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I know, that's why I specifically noted it with the "->". Mockery followed by actual asphyxiation, covering both nose and mouth.
 
@Boney Is Lathruai's book going to count for anything mechanically in our library once we file it away after writing the paper, or would it only warrant maybe a mention in the notable tomes section?
 
Codex said:
I'm pretty sure casting a Cataclysm spell with a Powerstone does not guarantee you'll cast it without consequences.

If the thread is scared about learning and casting Pit of Shades, I don't think the thread is prepared for Cataclysm magic. Even if our staff reduces the difficulty by one step, it would still be as hard to cast as high end Battle Magic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
My problem with battle magic is that if you keep rolling the dice, they're going to come up snake eyes eventually. But wiping a karak or similar with a single spell (or near enough) isn't something you keep doing. It's a singular event, and a really cool one. So for me, it's more like attacking the Black College, or the trip to the chaos wastes. It's undeniably risky, but really cool, and we did our best to mitigate the risk as much as possible (in the first case, using the night prowler, in the second by just being super mobile so she could have escaped on her own). In case of the cataclysm spell, it would be having the staff to make it not suicidal (high end battle magic can be cast semireliably), more experience with battle magic, hopefully being better at magic in general, blowing a powerstone if that helps, and maybe the fact that apparition binding spells can front load some of the risk.
 
DragonParadox said:
Vanishing Tzar
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is probably the most easy to pull off, but i think the long term consequences are too unpredictable to make it worth it.

DragonParadox said:
Disguise (Skaven)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We don't necessarly need to use a Skaven firearm, a warpstone dagger or sword would be enough.

DragonParadox said:
Disguise (Champion of Tzeench/Slaanesh)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is both the best and the worst plan at the same time.

If everything works perfectly then we have the best possible outcome for the mission.

But if something goes wrong, then there could be catastrophic consequences for Mathilde, Boris and all of Kislev.

DragonParadox said:
Open Poisoning
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This would create too many problems for Boris.

DragonParadox said:
Fake natural causes
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This plan has too much risk and too little reward.

DragonParadox said:
Hunting Trip Gone Wrong
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This could work but with so many moving pieces anything could happen.

Maybe we could combine the Hunting Accident with the Chaos Champion Disguise to make things as effective as possible.

But it would be a really risky plan.
 
Mystic Pentagram said:
This plan has too much risk and too little reward.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can turn invisible and teleport. The plan is as simple as turning invisible, teleporting into his bedroom, invisibly casting a spell to keep him asleep, invisibly suffocating him by pinching his nose shut or something, and then invisibly teleporting away.

I'm pretty sure we could literally accomplish that even if he slept with actual guards in his room who were staring at him the whole time.

The reward is minimal evidence of foul play, and an undefiled body for Boris to bury; the two things making this harder than killing him by staring at him especially hard as he rides through the woods one day, which is also an option we have.
 
chocolote12 said:
We can turn invisible and teleport. The plan is as simple as turning invisible, teleporting into his bedroom, invisibly casting a spell to keep him asleep, invisibly suffocating him by pinching his nose shut or something, and then invisibly teleporting away.

I'm pretty sure we could literally accomplish that even if he slept with actual guards in his room who were staring at him the whole time.

The reward is minimal evidence of foul play, and an undefiled body for Boris to bury; the two things making this harder than killing him by staring at him especially hard as he rides through the woods one day, which is also an option we have.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hell, Mathilde has a spell just for suffocating someone:
K / Throttling: Sends ropes of darkness a short distance to strangle the target. Lasts until you choose to stop or your concentration is broken.
- Without magical protection or supernatural toughness, the target is helpless from when the spell hits their throat.
- Can only be cast on living targets, and the ropes are insubstantial to everything but the target's throat, so it can't be interrupted except by magical means and can't be used to pull the target around.
 
Maybe by using the matrix, we could wait for a time when Vlad is drinking or eating alone, or while the other are also drunk, and activate mockery of death mid-sip so he chokes on it naturally.

While its a sad death, its one that has happened to multiple irl rulers.
Besides the magic
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top