Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The Bloodfane is probably the least-defended? (Compared to 'ancient Necrarch's tower' and 'Chaos fortress')
Though the Brass Keep should be the easiest to find.
How in the world did you get that idea? Iirc the brass keep is the one no one's got a exact clue about where it is.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Aksel said the Hedgewise were charged with defending it, I imagine he has an idea where it is.
Some sources have it under Imperial occupation at modern points in time, so that seems easier to find than the two other locations that I don't believe any Imperial has ever found unaided.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Since we'd be merely scouting from a distance, I think the implication of the action is that we'd be looking at all of them. Unlike a lot of other waystone actions, there's no "choose one:" conditionals in there.
And the last time the hedgewise held the fortress was well before the colleges where even a thing. He might have a clue or he might not know at all because the forest of shadows had pushed them out for long enough that it got forgotten.
Edit: and I doubt it's under imperial occupation because we would have heard about it.
They held it before the rise of the Cult of Sigmar more than two thousand years ago. That said we could probably triangulate it working off existing stones. I think the daemons and the horrible monsters are more of a concern. To take that place you are going to need several armies. The Empire is rather busy at the moment and so is the Karaz Ankor with the Sliver Road.
Well; they currently think that they occupied it a couple of thousand years ago. This could simply be a self-aggrandising/legitimising myth they've convinced themselves of sometime over the millennia.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[x] Plan Redshirt v1
Haven't had the oomph for posting or writing anything up myself all weekend, but a thought on Sofia:
Even just from Sofia's first impression, part of me wonders if the reason for her Magic Addiction isn't just... It sounds like woman is just in a constant fear of death. It's possible that being suffused with the Jade Wind, and the emotions that come from channeling it, is a balm against that constant fear.
And one of the theories with an addiction is that it's born of encountering a temporary measure to alleviate one's issues that doesn't actually help, or outright worsens, the root cause.
So someone born to tragedy and midway through grooming into a life that would mix the Fear of Shyish and the Power of Dhar into Necromancy found an out, except that that out was still channeling power in order to overcome fear, and drew suspicion, and thus more fear, on her as a result.
Haven't had the oomph for posting or writing anything up myself all weekend, but a thought on Sofia:
Even just from Sofia's first impression, part of me wonders if the reason for her Magic Addiction isn't just... It sounds like woman is just in a constant fear of death. It's possible that being suffused with the Jade Wind, and the emotions that come from channeling it, is a balm against that constant fear.
And one of the theories with an addiction is that it's born of encountering a temporary measure to alleviate one's issues that doesn't actually help, or outright worsens, the root cause.
So someone born to tragedy and midway through grooming into a life that would mix the Fear of Shyish and the Power of Dhar into Necromancy found an out, except that that out was still channeling power in order to overcome fear, and drew suspicion, and thus more fear, on her as a result.
If we're doing them all at once, it feels like that might be a Father Coin turn, since the Empire/Borderlands mapping action update noted that Aksel contacted the local Hedgewise about the Forest of Shadows Nexuses.
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I'm a bit baffled by the resistance to sharing tributaries knowledge due to greed.
Getting both Kislev and Bretonnia to start building tributaries on their own as soon as possible IS a win in my book. Especially since we know an Everchoosen might be on the horizon, less magic in the air is just a good thing and delaying for Mathilde's own interests is pretty much a jerk move.
Nevermind the fact that I'd expect a country like Bretonnia where honor is so important to want to pay us back as soon as possible. Also, we MIGHT be able to develop Waystones without Bretonnia's imput, but it might mean slower developpement which in my opinion is just not worth it when Bretonnia already has told us that they'd be willing to join if we showed some progress.
As for past wars, those where a long time ago in human memory and it's not like offering tributaries will make such a war more likely in the future. Having something to work towards together is actually a good way to build ties and someone must make the first step. If anything, it would be hypocritical to be resentful to Bretonnia for wars that happenned centuries or millenias ago when we straight up located the WP in a polity that comited ethnic cleansing against Norldland villages in living memory.
Getting both Kislev and Bretonnia to start building tributaries on their own as soon as possible IS a win in my book. Especially since we know an Everchoosen might be on the horizon, less magic in the air is just a good thing and delaying for Mathilde's own interests is pretty much a jerk move.
Nevermind the fact that I'd expect a country like Bretonnia where honor is so important to want to pay us back as soon as possible. Also, we MIGHT be able to develop Waystones without Bretonnia's imput, but it might mean slower developpement which in my opinion is just not worth it when Bretonnia already has told us that they'd be willing to join if we showed some progress.
As for past wars, those where a long time ago in human memory and it's not like offering tributaries will make such a war more likely in the future. Having something to work towards together is actually a good way to build ties and someone must make the first step. If anything, it would be hypocritical to be resentful to Bretonnia for wars that happenned centuries or millenias ago when we straight up located the WP in a polity that comited ethnic cleansing against Norldland villages in living memory.
I mean to be fair they do live in and around the Forest of Shadows which are the lands that tributary would have served and they have waystone lore. It is more likely than not that they held it at one point in time.
It really depends on who they were historically.
If they're the descendants of the pre-Cult priest-chieftains of Jutones, they may well have been in control of a fortress in the area historically.
If they were always a marginal profession living on the boundaries of civilisation and nature, then they're unlikely to have been in charge of a large fortress that has the hallmark of being a joint elf-dwarf project.
Even if they lived in liminal spaces if they were the native magical of the area they would have been called on magical matters with the nexus. That is probably close enough for government work when it comes to tribal legends.
The thing is, if the Hedgefolk weren't the priest-chieftains, then the actual priest-chieftains would presumably have been the dominant authorities on magic and the ones in charge of fortresses.
Those Priest-Chieftans seem unlikely to have been using Hedgecraft though. They seem much more similar to the priest-kings of Nehekhara, whom may have inspired them (or be the ancestors of them, for some of the tribes), priests of entire pantheons at once.
The Hedgecraft tributary requires the caster to be descended from the Was-Jutones bloodlines. It wouldn't make any sense if those bloodlines did not link back to ancestral hedgewise mage-priests, but instead linked back to an entirely separate tradition that had different beliefs and practices.
I don't think we have any reason to doubt the Hedgewise's lore about their involvement with waystones.
I don't think we have any reason to doubt the Hedgewise's lore about their involvement with waystones.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I mean, Brettonia wins. They have more productive land and less gribblies to deal with. Whether or not everyone ELSE wins depends entirely on what Brettonia does with that new surplus.
It's hard not to think of all the human kingdoms as being basically on the same side because of shared enemies, right? But it doen't seem to work like that for the people running those kingdoms.
I don't think we know either of those things. Not that she's immortal, and certainly not the nature of the goddess.
It might be the case that they don't feel obligated to return gifts, which this would be. Their honor isn't dwarf honor.
Why?
Why wouldn't they just pocket the win and continue on exactly as they were?
Or, they might direct their gratitude to Mathilde personally, and politely ignore any attempts to use that gratitude on behalf of the empire. Rewarding just the knight who did the deed seems to fit with that worldview.
Eh, Rituals are weird. The belief that they are descendants of important people alone could be enough to have magic work.
That could just be a peculiarity of the ritual. It doesn't work for other Hedgefolk who may be descended from priest-chieftains.
It could easily be that it somehow calls on Halethea and she has was part of the Was-Jutones local pantheon.
- Location
- Earth
Point of order, the Fourth Parravon War was in the early 2400s, which is less than a century ago.
As for your actual case, sure, getting Bretonnia to start making tributaries is a good thing, but I don't see how it makes sense as a priority to do it before we get the rest of the Empire, Karaz Ankor, or Kislev up and running, especially since they're the ones who already contributed. It just makes more sense to reward the people who are already helping, and who are already expecting deliverables from us.
And in the event of an Everchosen, the main invasion vectors would have to go through those polities before reaching Bretonnia anyways, so it makes more sense to shore up the areas that are closer to the front lines.
Still a long time ago though.
I'm all for sharing the info with Kislev first or better at the same time.
However, it's one AP to share the tributaries with Bretonnia and from there they can implement their network mostly on ther own with their own ressources. For the Empire, it's one AP per province. If we wait until the Empire is done we're wasting a lot of time just to save one month of Mathilde's time.
As for Karaz Ankor, we'd probably have to either develop Runic tributaries or use our own ressources to build their tributaries whereas we only need to give information to Bretonnia and they can get started on their own...
And I do think it's likely Bretonnia would reward us one way or another either by providing researchers for the Waystone Project (which was the offer they they made us; show them progress and they'd be interrested in participating) or something else.
I find that there is always a a logical regression to 'the forces of order' when thinking about warhammer fantasy. Because it's easier, and frankly, nicer and happier to think like that.
That 'what benefits one benefits all, making one stronger makes everyone stronger, etc etc'.
But it's not true. Even if players (and some people in the setting like Mathy) want it to be true.
The same way Orcs, Chaos and Vampires arn't automatically friends before they are 'the bad guy factions.' Humans, dwarfs, elves and other humans' are not automatically friends too.
At its most basic, every faction in the old world wants to expand, the more livable land you control, the safer, wealthier, happier your people are.
But there is usually someone else living there because none fucked up land is at a premium.
That's not taking into account opportunities, bad blood, miscommunication, ambition, evangelism etc etc.
A significantly powerful Bretonnia compared to its bordering neighbours would absolutely attack them and expend to a new equilibrium or even take them over completely if possible. The same way the empire would, and the newly revitalised Dwarfs are trying in The border princes. (Just that the dwarfs are liked by us and the BPs are inconsequential/assholes so we don't see it that way.) or the Tilnas make a sport of it etc etc.
None of the nations what to let one of the others get stronger unless they are also getting stronger or even getting ahead.
That's the reality of how the 'nations of order' think.
That 'what benefits one benefits all, making one stronger makes everyone stronger, etc etc'.
But it's not true. Even if players (and some people in the setting like Mathy) want it to be true.
The same way Orcs, Chaos and Vampires arn't automatically friends before they are 'the bad guy factions.' Humans, dwarfs, elves and other humans' are not automatically friends too.
At its most basic, every faction in the old world wants to expand, the more livable land you control, the safer, wealthier, happier your people are.
But there is usually someone else living there because none fucked up land is at a premium.
That's not taking into account opportunities, bad blood, miscommunication, ambition, evangelism etc etc.
A significantly powerful Bretonnia compared to its bordering neighbours would absolutely attack them and expend to a new equilibrium or even take them over completely if possible. The same way the empire would, and the newly revitalised Dwarfs are trying in The border princes. (Just that the dwarfs are liked by us and the BPs are inconsequential/assholes so we don't see it that way.) or the Tilnas make a sport of it etc etc.
None of the nations what to let one of the others get stronger unless they are also getting stronger or even getting ahead.
That's the reality of how the 'nations of order' think.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A good possible reason to open up collaboration with Bretonia is if they (or even just the Fey Enchantress) have the leyline keyphrases needed to establish new Waystones. There's no way to know if they have that knowledge ahead of time, but if they did, I think we'd have a far easier time negotiating for the keyphrases with Bretonia than with Ulthuan or Naggaroth.
Another possible reason is if we hit a big roadblock that we can't get through with our current group, but since we're already 3/4ths of the way to working prototypes I both don't think that's likely and am hoping it doesn't come to that.
Another possible reason is if we hit a big roadblock that we can't get through with our current group, but since we're already 3/4ths of the way to working prototypes I both don't think that's likely and am hoping it doesn't come to that.
Anyone has any clue what could Naggaroth ask for the keyphrases? I'm actually having a hard time thinking what they could ask us.
If Bretonnia gets stronger there's a hefty chance of more war in the future. Sure maybe more ties will reduce the risk of conflict but it is just as possible that giving Bretonnia more resources will make them more happy to fight.
The Eonir had unique and irreplaceable in terms of WP contribution, are a lot less threatening than Bretonnia and had already made serious movements towards rapprochement with the Empire even if they're still on bad terms with Nordland. Also they were wronged in the first place and their most isolationist/pro-ethnic cleansing faction died.
This isn't Mathilde being greedy; she has her (at least somewhat divided) loyalties to the Colleges and the Empire.
I think we wouldn't like what they'd ask of us... Or if the offer seems reasonable then it'd be a serious poisoned chalice one way or another.