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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I love Max and Mathilde's nerdery feeding on each other.

Marienburg seems to be making the best of a bad situation, which... will still be unpleasant, but having it rooted out is a good sign. And (if the cultists were responsible for the strike on the Okral) while the Karaz Ankor will be grumpy at Marienburg for failing to catch it before the cultists took their swing, having the perpetrators dead will likely help a lot with the psychology of the grudge.

The whole Panoramia section is OOF. Still, a better situation for Sofia than OTL, looks like. And having a Grey Lady Magister nebulously around is likely to provide additional motivation to work on whatever issues are behind the magical addiction.
 
A_Somebody said:
Eh I'm not sure if the Hekartians would really help Panoramia here. They very specifically see any magic casting as worship/tangling with Hekarti, a personified entity. Doesn't seem like it really jives with the agnostic thing Panoramia is trying to go with
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Hekarti is only partially a personified entity though. To the elves She'e also that part of the mind/psyche that casts and enjoys casting spells.

There could well be aspects of Hekartian philosophy that could be adapted to Panoramia's conception of a Jade wizard's relationship with Ghyran. Particularly a wizard with arcane marks, whose soul may, in some ways be part of their Wind, just as elves seen their souls as overlapping with their Gods.
 
The potential bomb has been planted :V

Lots of things said and not in the chapter. Mathilde continues to be a "and she was there somewhere" character during moments of potentially momentous occasions.
 
picklepikkl said:
So, there was a cult of corruption at the highest levels in Marienburg, just as there had been in the Empire until Abelhelm's little book and two Gray Wizards took care of it. The parallels are very interesting; Chaos trying to make inroads and prepare the way for their Everchosen to come receive Marienburg with ease after it was betrayed from within? And that does seem like a frontrunner suspect for the mining, which makes me feel really good about our decision nearly three years ago (in realtime) to return a verdict of No Verdict Reachable From Current Evidence. "Marienburg, except not Marienburg" would be a very difficult row to hoe, with angry Dwarves.

Also, Max is adorkable.
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Personally, my first though on that part was: Hey, didn't we have discussion about our spymaster predeccor's involvement with the Fall to Chaos of the Haupt-Anderssens--- which we now know to be Slanneeshi --- speculating that he may have wandered off the Marienburg and become an Everchosen candidate?

And now we're finding Slaaneshi Pleasure cult in charge of some of Marienburg's more baffling decisions?

Curious. Very Curious.
 
DragonParadox said:
Also these people literally handed his kid off to a new magister as a political sop, it is not like they do not deserve to be humiliated and deposed if they are going to misuse their authority like that.
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I don't think this is misuse of authority though? It's standard use of authority in a way that is pretty gentle to the one challenging it.

"You think you have an argument? Prove it." It's a pretty straightforward thing, and the apprentice needed a master in a position to provide appropriate oversight.

The real unanswered question here is "how does her 'magic addiction' actually work, what are it's means and methods, what sort of 'high' is she trying to get another hit of?"

I'm rather looking forward to learning more, tbh. And I think it was nice of the jade order to keep K8P stocked with the next generations of wizards.
 
The Phoenixian said:
Personally, my first though on that part was: Hey, didn't we have discussion about our spymaster predeccor's involvement with the Fall to Chaos of the Haupt-Anderssens--- which we now know to be Slanneeshi --- speculating that he may have wandered off the Marienburg and become an Everchosen candidate?

And now we're finding Slaaneshi Pleasure cult in charge of some of Marienburg's more baffling decisions?

Curious. Very Curious.
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Mopman43 said:
Well, suspect to be- Alberic could have been an Undivided candidate that was just blessed by Slaanesh in the moment, we didn't find his support network to know for sure.
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It definitely seems like Slaanesh is the one trying the most open moves and possible Everchosen.

We definitely on the shit list given we ruined their plan with Karak Vlag and that what set up the Next Everchosen quest.
 
@Boney : So what arcane marks does Sofia have? I don't think that you can really call someone magic addicted without them having a bunch. Because no marks would indicate that they are being careful.
 
Glau said:
I don't think this is misuse of authority though? It's standard use of authority in a way that is pretty gentle to the one challenging it.

"You think you have an argument? Prove it." It's a pretty straightforward thing, and the apprentice needed a master in a position to provide appropriate oversight.

The real unanswered question here is "how does her 'magic addiction' actually work, what are it's means and methods, what sort of 'high' is she trying to get another hit of?"

I'm rather looking forward to learning more, tbh. And I think it was nice of the jade order to keep K8P stocked with the next generations of wizards.
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It is misuse for two reasons, one of which is more morally problematic than the other
  1. They are not neutral arbiters, they are using their greater political power to force someone opposed to their views to pass a test of their choosing or fold
  2. They are sending a kid with a serious magical problem to someone with the reasonable expectation that she will used as an experiment and, since again these people mostly hold the opposing views, that Panoramia will fail and the kid will suffer for it.
They have set up a child's life and sanity as a token in an academic pissing match with no real stakes for anyone beyond their in group.
 
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My first response to Panoramia here is kind of...

"Okay, that sounds like the Religious Heresy version of 'Proliferating Standards'" Trying to make a clean middle ground really doesn't tend to work work with that sort of thing and I winced a bit and went "oh honey, no." when I saw that as Panoramia's solution.

On the one hand, them handing her Sofia as an apprentice is kind of a dick move, but on the other hand, I get where the Jade order is coming from. If the thesis can't handle that kind of edge case intact then it really doesn't belong. Both from a proto-scientific approach of testing the hypothesis and a religious and tutelage one of not letting stand a heretical and potentially dangerous teaching that poses to undermine the work they do.

So yeah, three ways to fail the test... but if Panoramia has ambition and skill and her thesis is anything more than a way for her to stay out of a scholarly debate while she's out at the edge of the world, then she may yet find a fourth path.

From the sound of things, they probably could have dressed it up nicer, but the core goal here doesn't seem wrong?
 
DragonParadox said:
They have set up a child's life and sanity as a token in an academic pissing match with no real stakes for anyone beyond their in group.
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The thing is, the impression I get is that no one in the Colleges knows how to deal with magic addiction, so it's not like she's harmed by sending her to Panoramia than to anyone else, and she may be helped if Panormani actually has any novel insights.
 
The Phoenixian said:
My first response to Panoramia here is kind of...

"Okay, that sounds like the Religious Heresy version of 'Proliferating Standards'" Trying to make a clean middle ground really doesn't tend to work work with that sort of thing and I winced a bit and went "oh honey, no." when I saw that as Panoramia's solution.

On the one hand, them handing her Sofia as an apprentice is kind of a dick move, but on the other hand, I get where the Jade order is coming from. If the thesis can't handle that kind of edge case intact then it really doesn't belong. Both from a proto-scientific approach of testing the hypothesis and a religious and tutelage one of not letting stand a heretical and potentially dangerous teaching that poses to undermine the work they do.

So yeah, three ways to fail the test... but if Panoramia has ambition and skill and her thesis is anything more than a way for her to stay out of a scholarly debate while she's out at the edge of the world, then she may yet find a fourth path.

From the sound of things, they probably could have dressed it up nicer, but the core goal here doesn't seem wrong?
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The argument only works if the divine side of things never gets obsessed to the point of self harm
*crowd of zealots moaning in the distance* :V
 
Hell yes, it returns!

It is important to note that there are some issues with the idea of Mathilde backing Panoramia to the hilt.

1. Mathilde doesn't actually, uh... agree with Panoramia on key portions of the topic.

Mathilde "Ranald's Right Hand" Weber is in absolutely no position to argue that there is no place for worship of deities in the Colleges, or that Grey Wizards should solely "worship" Ulgu.

Indeed, she's already taken largely the opposite position regarding Haletha worship and the Hedgewise. At most, Mathilde can argue that such worship shouldn't be mandatory (which is at least congruent with Ranald's ethos).

2. We're kind of relying heavily on the Druidic faction of the Jade College in order to get Waystones working.

Any positions Mathilde takes are going to have to be considered with regards to how badly we're willing to piss of Tochter in the process.
 
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