- Location
- Washington
Warhams baby, there is no singular actual truth. Somebody Wrote That One Time and every other canon source is still free to have their own opinions on the matter.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
- Location
- Australia
@Boney, if I've got it right, the Civilised Realms books are for learning and teaching languages while the Linguistics books are for deciphering and analysing languages?
Should be Bretonnian.
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I did some digging and found the phrase 'empire of man' being invoked by Sigmar in the novels - it seems to be directly based off the desire to have for humans what the Dwarves have in the Karaz Ankor, so 'of man' is used to distinguish it from that. It's also used in a bit of fluff in the 2e WFRP corebook. It might not be the best fit, but the other possibilities would be 'Sigmar's Holy Empire' or 'the Empire of the Reik' or something of that nature, which don't fit that well either. And just calling it 'the Empire' doesn't work so well when Ulthuan and the Karaz Ankor are both also empires.
Yes.
- Location
- Australia
The lore actually provides a good name for what it should be called:
Yes, the fact that participants can't speak the same magical language is an important problem and needs to be solved. But I don't think two lucky happenings will do that. And even if I'm wrong, and Gambler will affect whole action, it is still a one-time band aid, not a permanent solution. We need all parties to be able to work with each other even when Mathilde and her Divine artifact are not present. How? Well, I don't know. But I really really doubt that Gambler will allow us to design some kind of independently working smart magic interpreter on the first meeting.
The language thing is an issue, but I don't think it's an insurmountable one. Boneys mentioned a few times that all languages descend from Old One or Demonic, so I suspect that it'll be easy to share vocabulary at the very least.
- Location
- Washington
Strictly speaking there's also draconic as well as eastern languages theoretically descending from sky-titan language though Also-Theoretical Eastern Precursor but for every language relevant to the participants of THIS project, yeah they all descend from old one or daemonic.
Actually, that reminds me—we should probably try to track down and learn arcane queekish at some point.
- Pronouns
- They
Speaking of Sky-Titans, are they contemporaries with the Fimir, Shartak, Protheans? If so, wouldn't the Dragons have fought them over control of the mountain peaks when Dragons arrived on this planet?
What we need is a couple of great metaphors to establish the first pieces of the foundations for communications and working together. Once that's in place then we can continue to build on it with the initial understanding established.
That's why the Gambler could really help with Laying the Foundations.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
The point I am trying to make is that I don't think either side would actually end up attempting an extermination war if this relationship became more commonly known. The Skaven already know about the man-things above and can be motivated by fear just as well as by the belief that there is nothing to fear yet. The Empire's citizen would in time agree that beastmen spawning far underground are a problem to be dealt with similar to beastmen spawning deep in the forests. Keep sentries out and kill what comes. Sometimes even pursue a foe army. But don't spend massive resources blindly hunting them in their own territory.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter, because it clearly seems as if both Mathilde and the EC of Wissenland are read in on the first level of the Conspiracy (barely for the latter) and currently there's no other reason to be interested in the subject from an IC point of view.
I have no idea if there's a canon source, but over at Oksbad's Quest he introduced an Imperial legend (that the Cult of Morr in Tilea finds questionable) that there used to be an outright massive daemon spewing portal that Morr managed to destroy it and that Morrslieb is what remains.
It might of course be a "just so" explanation to reconcile Morr's benevolence with the Imperial name for the moon, which might have become popular back at a time where Morr was still an unpopular and frightening southern death god
These are the two new Houses I am curious about.
Vaire because it is a magic House that Mathilde specifically did not think worth approaching, despite her being interested to some degree in both the isolationist and the racist Hoeth House.
Orophin because everything I ever read about Ellinill himself was decidedly negative, to the point where it seems that I would characterize him as the classical mythological adversary akin to Apophis if this world didn't also have the Chaos Gods. Even his children only seem redeemed after they fled from him and sought the mortal realms for survival instead of wanton destruction. So it is hard to wrap my head around an Elven House that doesn't just occasionally honor him, but exalts him more than any other deity.
Could you already shed a light on either of these?
Of course this train of logic implies that the Asur have probably not quite cultivated most of Ulthuan's forests.
Oh so that's why Slaanesh is considered the youngest Chaos God.
We already know it, though.
Snort Warp Dust until magic happens, easy.
Because House Tindomiel is a Sapherian Hekarti-aligned House that was in favour of working with humans, which makes them an outright better candidate for recruitment.
It's believed by some that if properly propitiated He can be convinced to leave His worshippers untouched and to turn disasters upon their enemies.
Before the Coming of Chaos.
In opposition to and jealously guarding his metaphysical territory against encroachment by them.
The gambler is not going to make us better at making and interpreting metaphors, especially when one race present speaks solely in metaphors and the other race thinks the only good metaphor is a mining metaphor—and communicating with both those races is something we've sunk a lot of traits and skills into. We're already the best that can be on that front.
some of the elfs will know reikspiel out of the simply reason that they approached Nordland and middenland independently on seperate occasions to negotiate with humans. So either they're really great pantomimes or they know the language. (elvish pantomime seems like a very fun concept.)
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I mean this is literally completely wrong. On both a mechanical level and a narrative one. It's sort of mind boggling.
The Gambler should be ideal for arranging that people pick the right metaphor, it can manipulate events so that a participant happens to see something that sparks inspiration on their morning walk, or similar.
This is about inspiration and creativity. It's almost inherently very random, and ideal for the Gambler to make small nudges.
They'll speak Reikspeil. However, Reikspeil neither has the vocabulary nor the grammar to describe magical phenomena. It's why magic users used magical languages. I don't think any of the participants speaks two magical languages, so all communication has to pass via a language that doesn't cover the concepts under discussion.
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Why is it wrong?
Cool but unimportant, because a good portion of the attendees will also not know the magical language, thorek, the babushka, the ice witch and any of the elfs. (also any Hedgewise we get or do not get) so prepare yourself for lots of descriptions of magic in common reikspiel.
Edit: also I don't get the metaphor bit? Like, it's nice they have a good methapor but that's not really going to help with technical details...
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SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
On a mechanical level the Gambler adds +20 to two different rolls, that's actually a very large swing in the result and is functionaly equivalent to having an additional 20 learning.
On the narrative level you're essentially saying divine inspiration amounts to nothing. That's highly questionable especially as the way the gambler functions it provides its bonus in the place that will provide the greatest impact retroactively.
And if Reikspeil literally doesn't have the words to discuss magical phenomena that say Lingua preastantia or Anonqeyan or Arcane Khazalid? Then what?
I suspect one of the key things that will be needed on this project will end up being some one that can speak both Arcane Khazalid and Anonqeyan. Good thing Mathilde is a polyglot.
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Then the whole project is doomed to fail? Because it's not just the elfs that will not know the Imperial magical language? I doubt 2 20s will suddenly make everyone remember they studied at a Imperial academy... Because no one here can speak both...
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yes everything is a binary between perfect success and complete failure and absolutely not a sliding scale. Also have you considered part of the laying the foundation action is to overcome part of this barrier and create shared terminology? In which case those +20s matter a lot to ensure everyone is on the same page.