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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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I think the problem is not actually gods working through people here... the possible problem is that human mage channeled high test WAGH! a force fundamentally alien to humans. Its designed for use by mushroom/fungus men and not mammals. Basically, if your using winds, chaos powers, or god powers its all from the local warp. WAAGH! is not. As far as I'm aware WAGH! exists to dodge dealing with warp nonsense (it has its own nonsense.. so much nonsense)... the old ones being solidly anti-chaos warp nonsense and all.

So any issue stems from how the hell she managed to channel it without headsploding in the first place. The boosting divinity seemed happy with the results, but confused with the entire suddenly ninja thing. Hence the attempt at hiring thing. Kind of a desperate last ditch open ended boost anyone scrapping the ritual boost that found someone who wasn't even suppose to be there at all.

I'm not sure it could be repeated intentionally. It was just kind of a thing that happened. So wasn't an avatar thing so much as an improvised agent with nonstandard soul structure for the conduit.
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On another note, I watched that Skaven origin video and give it 4.5 out of 5 Citizen Canes for nonsense writing. CC required someone to be in the room to witness his last words... and spent the rest of the set up explaining how he died completely and utterly alone. So the key point in the plot is a plot hole. The half point is because daemon princes were invoked in story and did nothing so it could be based on one of those daemon prince basically telling it as a comedic tale on open mike night. Once you establish the Skaven wouldn't have recorded that and no one survived to tell the tale there simply isn't a coherent narrative source.
 
Warmach1ne32 said:
@BoneyM, Would Ranald be tickled if we use the coin with Deceiver to bluff at gambling? For 1 he is a troll so he'll likely get a laugh out of her opponents getting gobmacked she had a royal flush. On the other it is a powerful artifact made from a god.
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It can't be used for these events specifically, but for gambling in general: unless the stakes are particularly high or unique, it would be frivolous, but in keeping with his domain. So it would be neutral.

Rafin said:
The acceptance of this seems weird when seen through the lense of what I've been told by you all about Dwarf psychology. People were promised certain rewards for certain tasks. Any subsequent change of contract should be discussed with new payment attached, no?
Or am I misunderstanding the actual causes behind Dwarven raids on towns that are slightly short on payment and such?
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Usually, but most Dwarves would rather hack off their beard than walk away from the biggest event since Thorgrim's crowning when it's racking up victories. From a purely mercenary standpoint Belegar's being cheeky but all the shot-callers are motivated by grudges or glory or carving out more of their future living space. The purely mercenaries Dwarves are Ulthar's and Skaroki's problems, and will probably be browbeat by the more traditionally-minded Dwarves and mollified by the oversized payday still dangling in the future. The purely mercenary humans are Codrin's problem, and the glory they won today and the celebration they're about to have and maybe the lingering effects of Dwarven rune magic will keep them on board for the present.

If tomorrow brings another shift in goalposts, things could get trickier... even if the imminent arrival of reinforcements practically demands it.

Guile said:
I recently reread the Drakenhof arc, and holy cow those miscasts. I wonder if that town is still on fire from when Jovi exploded?
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The district has a distressing habit of reigniting on particular sunny days. Thankfully those are rare in Sylvania.

Andmeuths said:
There's still the What to tell our master and the Grey order vote coming up
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There isn't. This is the final day for the subject's debate. Mathidle's report to the Grey Order will communicate the maximum amount of useful information without endangering her own standing.
 
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veekie said:
Because of the degree if what happened, because she would prefer a priest's input on what the shit happened and Kragg is THE expert as far as judging is concerned.

Basically its outside her expertise as a lay worshipper, which is why getting a priest's advice in confidence is useful for understanding how it might happen.
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Why would Mathilde consult a dwarf expert on matters of an inhuman god and human gods? I think you are conflating the experience Kragg has with dwarven theology as experience with all theology.
 
Say @BoneyM if playing with the big wolf ends up being what we do at the party, it is safe to assume that we would also have our familiar there with us to play too right?
 
BoneyM said:
Usually, but most Dwarves would rather hack off their beard than walk away from the biggest event since Thorgrim's crowning when it's racking up victories. From a purely mercenary standpoint Belegar's being cheeky but all the shot-callers are motivated by grudges or glory or carving out more of their future living space. The purely mercenaries Dwarves are Ulthar's and Skaroki's problems, and will probably be browbeat by the more traditionally-minded Dwarves and mollified by the oversized payday still dangling in the future. The purely mercenary humans are Codrin's problem, and the glory they won today and the celebration they're about to have and maybe the lingering effects of Dwarven rune magic will keep them on board for the present.

If tomorrow brings another shift in goalposts, things could get trickier... even if the imminent arrival of reinforcements practically demands it.
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I wouldn't go that far, even with a wave of reinforcements, the right move to make at this point is to clear out our section of the underway and absolutely lock everything the fuck out of our newly gained territories. The Eastern Valley in its entirety (Save one spot that's essentially just a roadblock that's convienent for us to leave there) will be in Clan Angrund's hands, that's already the size of an ordinary Dwarfhold and is positively one of those legendary-scale victories that would even get the Old Holds to sit up and take notice.

Lock it down, secure it, and send the mercenaries home with gold and stories of how metal the Expedition was, that way when we rally up another muster, we get the good quality dudes flocking to our banner.
 
Alectai said:
I wouldn't go that far, even with a wave of reinforcements, the right move to make at this point is to clear out our section of the underway and absolutely lock everything the fuck out of our newly gained territories. The Eastern Valley in its entirety (Save one spot that's essentially just a roadblock that's convienent for us to leave there) will be in Clan Angrund's hands, that's already the size of an ordinary Dwarfhold and is positively one of those legendary-scale victories that would even get the Old Holds to sit up and take notice.

Lock it down, secure it, and send the mercenaries home with gold and stories of how metal the Expedition was, that way when we rally up another muster, we get the good quality dudes flocking to our banner.
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That's the smart move, but I'm not sure if it's going to be politically possible. Karak Azul was promised glory, and I doubt they'll be satisfied with simply consolidating our gains.
 
spiritualatheist said:
That's the smart move, but I'm not sure if it's going to be politically possible. Karak Azul was promised glory, and I doubt they'll be satisfied with simply consolidating our gains.
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Well maybe if Karak Azul got here faster than they would have gotten some glory. humph humph.

More seriously, if the size of the investment that Karak Azul is sending is as significant as the blurb made it out to be then Belegar would definitely be able to pay the mercs and ask how many would be willing to stay for an additional round. The stirlander farmers will likely leave and a perhaps a good chunk of the mercs but we would still have more than enough men to push for more karags will all the dwarf reinforcements. They may take a while to get here though. A dwarven throng will not be able to move as fast as a wolf rider. Best to send the mercs home with money and tales of glory and reap a greater amount of mercs when the war horn sounds again.
 
Yeah, honestly, I think Karak Azul's going to show up in the climax of the Battle for the Citadel myself, while it's weakened to a level that we can take it, it's still the biggest chokepoint in Eight Peaks, and whoever holds it has an overpowering advantage. Belegar couldn't capitalize on that advantage in canon because he went for the grand prize without securing a stable logistics chain first, but here? We can, because he has the entire Eastern Valley at his back, and three points of contact with the rest of the Karaz Ankor (Land route to Barak Varr, Air Route to Karaz-a-Karak, and apparently underway route to Karak Azul--which is especially good for them because as long as we hold the Eastern Valley, they have a safe route to the rest of the Dwarfholds)

I feel we're liable to get a three-way clusterfuck here between the surviving greenskins and one of the Skaven clans going for it, and Karak Azul is going to show up at the critical moment as the reinforcement.
 
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[X] Join the hunting with Maximilian
[X] 'Make sure the ale hasn't gone bad' with Johann

Mathilde has not been spending time with the others hasn't she
 
Alectai said:
Yeah, honestly, I think Karak Azul's going to show up in the climax of the Battle for the Citadel myself, while it's weakened to a level that we can take it, it's still the biggest chokepoint in Eight Peaks, and whoever holds it has an overpowering advantage.

I feel we're liable to get a three-way clusterfuck here between the surviving greenskins and one of the Skaven clans going for it.
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I agree that the Skaven might make a go for it but I also don't really know how fast Skaven can move to take advantage of a sudden opening. They seem much more likely to see an opening carefully scout it to make sure that it is in fact an opening argue with each other over it and then find out we took it already.

I don't know how likely this is but my impression on the skaven is that they don't move that fast. When they get moving it's a problem sure. However the problem for the skaven is getting all of them moving in the same way.
 
Neshuakadal said:
I agree that the Skaven might make a go for it but I also don't really know how fast Skaven can move to take advantage of a sudden opening. They seem much more likely to see an opening carefully scout it to make sure that it is in fact an opening argue with each other over it and then find out we took it already.

I don't know how likely this is but my impression on the skaven is that they don't move that fast. When they get moving it's a problem sure. However the problem for the skaven is getting all of them moving in the same way.
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No, it's the opposite, Skaven tend to be on the precipice of making a big play everywhere at once but don't because they fear the unknown, and the moment they smell weakness they jump on it. (This is why they inevitably build massive outposts under every major city worldwide save for the ones on Ulthuan--which they can't reach because it floats), they still technically are supposed to kill every lifeform in the world that isn't Skaven, they're just too scared to make the first move if there isn't an imminent threat)

Right now, we're a new variable so they don't have anything planned for us (Plus, we've shown great strength in our fast movement, which scares them) and because of this, what you say is true--hence why we haven't seen much direct aggression from them I imagine--but the Citadel is a strongpoint they've likely coveted for a while, and the garrison has been depleted thanks to the sally and the micro civil-war that's going on in the Caldera. Their reaction is probably "IT IS GO-GO TIME!"
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
It's fortunate he's found all of that gold to renegotiate with then, eh?
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I don't know how the negotiations were done originally. Were the mercenaries promised (or directly paid) a specific wage or were they promised a share of the found loot?

If it's the latter, then they already have a claim on the found riches and any re-negotiation would have to promise them a bigger share of it.
 
Actually, there's no real reason for the Expedition not to just say: "Ok, preliminary phase is completed, here is the agreed gold. We start the second phase next week. Who here is looking for more gold? There will be a bonus included".
 
BoneyM said:
There isn't. This is the final day for the subject's debate. Mathidle's report to the Grey Order will communicate the maximum amount of useful information without endangering her own standing.
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Glad to hear it. Suck it, Malal!

On a lighter note, what does a Ranaldan religious service usually entail?
 
Alectai said:
No, it's the opposite, Skaven tend to be on the precipice of making a big play everywhere at once but don't because they fear the unknown, and the moment they smell weakness they jump on it. (This is why they inevitably build massive outposts under every major city worldwide save for the ones on Ulthuan--which they can't reach because it floats), they still technically are supposed to kill every lifeform in the world that isn't Skaven, they're just too scared to make the first move if there isn't an imminent threat)

Right now, we're a new variable so they don't have anything planned for us (Plus, we've shown great strength in our fast movement, which scares them) and because of this, what you say is true--hence why we haven't seen much direct aggression from them I imagine--but the Citadel is a strongpoint they've likely coveted for a while, and the garrison has been depleted thanks to the sally and the micro civil-war that's going on in the Caldera. Their reaction is probably "IT IS GO-GO TIME!"
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A very good point. I would make mention of the direction the skaven would make that attack though. They will attack from below and we will be attacking from the surface. The greenskins will take the brunt of both attacks. While we would eventually have to fight the skaven in such an event as a duel attack I don't think we would face a three way battle expect at unique positions. A three way fight may happen but each zone of that fight will likely only face one opponent.

So while a duel attack may cause problems I don't think it is likely to be much bloodier than just taking it from the greenskins given the causalities they both will cause each other.
 
With how small the margin is, we might have an issue. How do we count the votes for telling just Belegar or just Kragg in the big tell/ don't tell split? Since the main vote is to tell them both, or not? Can the tally even handle that with approval voting?
 
BoneyM said:
The district has a distressing habit of reigniting on particular sunny days. Thankfully those are rare in Sylvania.
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Hmm, that actually sounds interesting to study.
Neshuakadal said:
Why would Mathilde consult a dwarf expert on matters of an inhuman god and human gods? I think you are conflating the experience Kragg has with dwarven theology as experience with all theology.
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Because Kragg is a Master of his field, he may not have exactly correct information, but he'd definitely have a better idea of the underlying theory. And because like Mathilde's expertise in Arcane Grey lets her be a useful expert on Arcane in general, Kragg's expertise in Dwarven Theology makes him an useful expert in matters of Greenskin Theology, especially given the role Greenskin shamans have and the importance of smiting them properly.

Also because human priests tend to be pure Piety, no Learning zealots, while Kragg is involved in a highly pious AND intellectual craft.
Alectai said:
I wouldn't go that far, even with a wave of reinforcements, the right move to make at this point is to clear out our section of the underway and absolutely lock everything the fuck out of our newly gained territories. The Eastern Valley in its entirety (Save one spot that's essentially just a roadblock that's convienent for us to leave there) will be in Clan Angrund's hands, that's already the size of an ordinary Dwarfhold and is positively one of those legendary-scale victories that would even get the Old Holds to sit up and take notice.

Lock it down, secure it, and send the mercenaries home with gold and stories of how metal the Expedition was, that way when we rally up another muster, we get the good quality dudes flocking to our banner.
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Well, my read on it is:
Mission Accomplished breakpoints:
-Securing the Gate - Taking the Gate and its adjacent Peaks gives you a secure enough beachhead that dwarfs will flock to the reconquest and from there, grind through the Eight Peaks with or without the mercs. This was the original intention I believe.

-Securing the Caldera - Taking the Citadel and any two adjacent peaks gives you arable surface land, and makes the expedition self sufficient, even if an epic Waagh pours through the supply line, they can hold. At this point all campaign stated wargoals have been met. It's a self sufficient Hold.

-Securing the Supply Line - Taking the Underway chokepoints along with securing the Gate means a solid uninterruptible supply line, and a flow of dwarf support that means they can release the mercenaries for gloryseekers. The halflings don't have their promised land yet though.

I figure we're going to have a hard time pushing past securing the Caldera, because all promises have been met, the mercenaries would disband. Taking the Underway would be a separate campaign(and one we'd want better ratters for).
 
veekie said:
hard time pushing past securing the Caldera
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I think you mean the East Valley.
The Caldera is Grobitown on the other side of the Citadel.
Notably, a Grobitown from where reinforcements for the Citadel can arrive freely and at the Speed of Waagh, based on the last battle.
BoneyM said:
Truth be told, you don't know if the tide of greenskins heading into the Citadel was part of an internal religious schism or them taking the shortest route between their current location and Karag Nar
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veekie said:
Because Kragg is a Master of his field, he may not have exactly correct information, but he'd definitely have a better idea of the underlying theory. And because like Mathilde's expertise in Arcane Grey lets her be a useful expert on Arcane in general, Kragg's expertise in Dwarven Theology makes him an useful expert in matters of Greenskin Theology, especially given the role Greenskin shamans have and the importance of smiting them properly.

Also because human priests tend to be pure Piety, no Learning zealots, while Kragg is involved in a highly pious AND intellectual craft.
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I feel like when dealing with matters of the soul you want more than "not exactly correct information." I would not suggest a Christian to go to a Shinto priest for advice on matters of the soul. The world views are just so different as to not be helpful. If Mathilde is concerned about matters of the soul, which I honestly don't think she is, then she should go to a priest of Ranald and not settle for the closest priest for convince sake. Kragg may be the most knowledgeable about greenskin theology we have but that does not make him an expert. That does not even mean he is the best person to discuss greenskin theology with given the deep hatred he has for the greenskins. One will still be blinded and biased by hatred no matter how much one knows about the subject.

Edit: Also what a bold generalization about human priests. They are pure piety not learning so we don't want to talk to them about this. Really? Mathilde wouldn't be able to find one priest who would be just as interested in learning as he is about zealotry?
 
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