OK so... why would the boyar tell us any of that? There might well be some detective work between talking to this one random man, who will likely lie, and know the mind of an age old forest spirit steeped in blood.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
OK so... why would the boyar tell us any of that? There might well be some detective work between talking to this one random man, who will likely lie, and know the mind of an age old forest spirit steeped in blood.
I kind of regret revisiting the investigate the boyar option considering all the arguments lol.
That being said, I find it weird how popular the scout option is now compared to earlier when it would probably have been much less dangerous and much more valuable information. I'm assuming that we (and the other mages) are gonna be identifiable to wind sight so we'll be a prime target if we enter the woods alone or with a small group. And the enemy is sure to be alert now that there is an army next door cutting down the forest which probably would more than compensate for the distraction afforded by the other scouts/lumberjacks.
The current strategy seems to be to use the scouts/lumberjacks to lure the enemy in for the main force to engage. What would make more sense to me is to keep our very limited magical support as reserves and to strike swiftly when Kislev's mundane forces have engaged the enemy. Also, staying with or behind the army leadership means that if we or any of the other named characters get sniped we have a good chance for a revive with the seed.
If our forces are used as a reserve ready to strike, we have to decide whether or not Mathilde's significant battle might is worth not getting the potential strategic information from investigating the boyar. There is also the facts that we are probably much more suited for investigation and interrogation than scouting and that there are actual battle magic tier casters on the battlefield. On the other hand, staying behind means being at the ready for a revive...
[ ] [GREY] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[ ] [GREY] Investigate Boyar Kalashinivik
[ ] [GOLD] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[ ] [ICE] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
That being said, I find it weird how popular the scout option is now compared to earlier when it would probably have been much less dangerous and much more valuable information. I'm assuming that we (and the other mages) are gonna be identifiable to wind sight so we'll be a prime target if we enter the woods alone or with a small group. And the enemy is sure to be alert now that there is an army next door cutting down the forest which probably would more than compensate for the distraction afforded by the other scouts/lumberjacks.
The current strategy seems to be to use the scouts/lumberjacks to lure the enemy in for the main force to engage. What would make more sense to me is to keep our very limited magical support as reserves and to strike swiftly when Kislev's mundane forces have engaged the enemy. Also, staying with or behind the army leadership means that if we or any of the other named characters get sniped we have a good chance for a revive with the seed.
If our forces are used as a reserve ready to strike, we have to decide whether or not Mathilde's significant battle might is worth not getting the potential strategic information from investigating the boyar. There is also the facts that we are probably much more suited for investigation and interrogation than scouting and that there are actual battle magic tier casters on the battlefield. On the other hand, staying behind means being at the ready for a revive...
[ ] [GREY] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[ ] [GREY] Investigate Boyar Kalashinivik
[ ] [GOLD] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
[ ] [ICE] Standing ready to respond with the Tzar and Boyars
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Because we can be very persuasive? Because we have bullshit windsight? Because we are a very experienced Grey wizard? Like your not giving this the same odds as all other actions we have done. Iirc boney doesn't do trap option and the option going "sicke you now need to spend 4 of your 3 prep days to solve my puzzle box" sounds very much like a trap option.
- Location
- Who knows?
Ehh no, I'd think a trap would be "Boyar is secretly a Bloodthirster who immediately claims your skull for Khornes throne." Options 100% still have downsides, tradeoffs and could be suboptimal. For this specifically Boney has outright said missing the fight due to spending time on this is a possibility.
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- Location
- Germany
Unrelated to our currently pressing issues, there's a fun detail in the new Total War.
The Chaos Dwarf holds already exist partially, Zharr Naggrund, Uzkulak, etc., but they are all starting territories of Orcs.
I believe the Doylist reason for this is that a Chaos Dwarf DLC is already planned and the developers wanted to change less for that, so they build the CD-territories similar to their final state and leave a placeholder in them. (Similar to Nehekara in TW WH 2)
But in the context of the story I choose to believe that this is a timeline in which the Black Orc Rebellion was much more successful and the slaves have defeated their masters and taken over their lands. The Chorfs payed the bill for their millenia of oppression.
The Chaos Dwarf holds already exist partially, Zharr Naggrund, Uzkulak, etc., but they are all starting territories of Orcs.
I believe the Doylist reason for this is that a Chaos Dwarf DLC is already planned and the developers wanted to change less for that, so they build the CD-territories similar to their final state and leave a placeholder in them. (Similar to Nehekara in TW WH 2)
But in the context of the story I choose to believe that this is a timeline in which the Black Orc Rebellion was much more successful and the slaves have defeated their masters and taken over their lands. The Chorfs payed the bill for their millenia of oppression.
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I mean we have gotten that option several times before, you know when we would have had the time to follow up and we did not take it. It was introduced as a player suggestion this update. If you do not think player suggested actions can fail then let me tel you about Ulgu Tongs, they are great.
We do have the traits to make an investigation a very viable option :
Intrigue: 19+2+2+2+1+1=27 - You've developed a somewhat frightening understanding of how to disassemble all kinds of psyches.
Interrogator: You've seen what men are made of, and you've seen them unmade. +2 Intrigue, +1 Martial, -1 Diplomacy.
Infiltration, Advanced: It takes significant effort to make it even slightly difficult for you to enter somewhere. +3 Intrigue
Infiltration, Master (1/4)
Interrogation: You know how to extract information from those that don't wish to give it. +1 Intrigue
Interrogation, Advanced (1/3)
- The Night Prowler: As long as you are outside of private property and within a town or city, nobody will question your presence and nobody will be able to find you if you do not wish them to. For non-human population centres, will work if it's not completely unknown for humans to be present, or if you are disguised as that species.
Especially compared to scouting :
Scouting (2/3)
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Oh absolutely, if we now runaway from the fight but we had the option before and having a option be "nahhh, you get nothing, good job on wasting a vote." is pretty much a trap option in every sense of the word.
Edit: @DragonParadox see above
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All those interrogation skills would sure answer all our questions if we had Drycha tied to a chair somewhere , but then if we had that a lot of things would be easier. It is entirely possible to her something out of him and yet for it to be of no actionable use.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
I argue the scout option as it's much much harder to kill a grey wizard quietly than it would be for the other soldiers.
Also I fucking love the fight scenes in this quest lol
Also I fucking love the fight scenes in this quest lol
No, it isn't.
- Location
- Who knows?
No, I don't think "this option didn't give you any actionable Intel in the short time you have" is a trap since it's 100% a realistic and reasonable outcome. Sometimes stuff doesn't have neat answers you can quickly and safely suss out, see the Mystery of Dum.
You genuinely cannot imagine him having information that would have been actionable several days ago and would not have been now, or for that matter us just failing the roll and getting nothing? Because both of those things can happen, though of course if we fail enough rolls in battle we die, so I guess if you value Mathilde's life more than those of the Kislevites investigation is safer.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
A trap option is "something you could have in no way predicted or planned for", along those lines.
The Boyar not having actionable intel is definitely something we can predict, given that people are predicting it right now.
A trap option is not "taking this option is sub-optimal or useless".
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We get one action. Don't know where you get the idea we get 3.
Bye.
The Waystone-cheking action was pretty much exactly that and I say that as someone who voted for it. That action was for the purposes of this mini-arc useless, but we had no way of knowing so in advance.
This is reminding me way too much of Dum, with people insisting that we must find the answers or some disaster will happen, or conversely if we just poke this one thread lightly all will be revealed. The way I see if there are two options about the Boyar's involvement:
Innocent: that is he did something dumb reckless or just unlucky and now there is a murder fey on his trail, if that is the case he is the most likely to tell us about it, but also he is the least likely to offer some kind of solution
Guilty: He did something that was intentionally evil against the local fey, Drycha or even Athel Loren as a whole somehow , to do any of those things he has to be at least mildly skilled and powerful, he must have some influence beyond 'here is Boyar Not-quite-AK' so he is likely to lie and the most likely to need a detailed investigation. That said depending on how he came to be guilty and how desperate he is to get the murder fey off his trail he might decide to come clean at least in part... and in that unlikely instance he is more likely than the above to actually have actionable intel. Whether w will trust him to make use of it is another matter altogether.
Innocent: that is he did something dumb reckless or just unlucky and now there is a murder fey on his trail, if that is the case he is the most likely to tell us about it, but also he is the least likely to offer some kind of solution
Guilty: He did something that was intentionally evil against the local fey, Drycha or even Athel Loren as a whole somehow , to do any of those things he has to be at least mildly skilled and powerful, he must have some influence beyond 'here is Boyar Not-quite-AK' so he is likely to lie and the most likely to need a detailed investigation. That said depending on how he came to be guilty and how desperate he is to get the murder fey off his trail he might decide to come clean at least in part... and in that unlikely instance he is more likely than the above to actually have actionable intel. Whether w will trust him to make use of it is another matter altogether.
We had 3 before we started the battle, where investigating the Boyar was also a option.
The waystone action told us exactly what we wanted to know, is drycha using or not using the leyline.
@Boney and I'm guessing we would have gone on incomplete information when we followed the only trail for a explanation why a warhost of athel Loren is invading Kislev and that would have lead to nothing.
Or does that fall under "sub optimal decisions"
And no you do not have to tell me that I could have told us something, but the people going "it definitely wouldn't have amounted to anything, better we got 1 good witch and the barely finished apprentice." it infuriates me when people go "but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have helped anything because my intuition tells me so."
If someone has a logical explanation for why investigation the Boyar before the full host assembled would have been useless I would love to hear it. (I already said I understand why doing it now is not a great choice.)
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- Location
- Norway
I'm not that keen on scouting, much for the same reasons as earlier. It being brought up that Mathilde just have 2/3 in scouting just cements that opinion.
Think she is a lot more useful with the patrol or the army, since she can speed up reinforcements with RoW and she is very fast if going alone on her shadowsteed.
Think she is a lot more useful with the patrol or the army, since she can speed up reinforcements with RoW and she is very fast if going alone on her shadowsteed.
I think you may be arguing with a position no one holds at this point. I voted for the Boyar over the witches when that was an option and I think there were at least decent odds of us getting something useful out of him then, now I think the time has passed and let's make sure no one important dies
This really sounds like you're being led astray by metagaming. It seems like you're not evaluating an investigation of the Boyar on its in-universe merits alone, but by the fact that it's the only apparent line of investigation, so therefore you're convinced it must be able to crack the mystery open. That you're seeing this as a binary choice between [Fight Enemy] and [Solve Mystery]. But that's not the choice. The choice is to join part of the forces or to investigate the Boyar or to do literally anything else via write in, and people who are debating how likely it is for the investigation to lead to tangible results are not wrong for doing so.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Yeah tbh, i don'T really care what reasons a batshit insane tree has for hating the man, but Drycha isn't under Ariel, which imho means that the Boyar being targeted because he is part of some nefarious evil world-ending plot has a minimal chance of being true. And if its not, we don't really need to care about it.
[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
She will never get 3/3 scouting if she doesn't scout, since thats, you know, how you level up. The risks are less than before now that there is sufficient amount of warm bodies accompanying us.
[X] [GREY] Scouting the forest with the krugs
[X] [ICE] Guarding the forest rotas as they expand and fortify the path
She will never get 3/3 scouting if she doesn't scout, since thats, you know, how you level up. The risks are less than before now that there is sufficient amount of warm bodies accompanying us.
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- Location
- Earth
RoW's speedup comes from improving the quality of the terrain. Given that the army's plan is to move along and build a road, I'm not sure that still applies.