"By jingo" is an old fashioned British expression stating patriotic enthusiasm for a military adventure.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
"By jingo" is an old fashioned British expression stating patriotic enthusiasm for a military adventure.
- Location
- USA
I thought that "jingo" was meant to substitute for God (to avoid taking His Name in vain, I suppose)? Except in Warhammer-verse, there's more than one god, so...
That's probably how the term originated, I suspect (same as Jove or Zounds), but it was often used in the context of military aggression to the point that the political term "jingoism" is named after it.
Blue space elves?
- Pronouns
- They
I'm kinda curious on why the current vote is so close between Boris and the Ice Witches. Weren't we hoping to bring the Ice Witches into the Waystone Project? Reaching out to them would be more narratively fitting as a follow-up to Mathilde's existing rapport after the Chaos Goblet heist.
Boris kinda feels like a sympathy vote because we turned down his heartfelt offer to host the Waystone Project in Kislev. Getting his approval seems less effective than directly helping the Ice/Hag witches, in terms of bringing Kislev's magical traditions into the project.
Boris kinda feels like a sympathy vote because we turned down his heartfelt offer to host the Waystone Project in Kislev. Getting his approval seems less effective than directly helping the Ice/Hag witches, in terms of bringing Kislev's magical traditions into the project.
Last edited:
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I can't speak for everyone who voted Boris, but I have several reasons for why I'm voting Boris. For one, I actually care less about getting direct favor with the Ice WItches than I am with getting a direct line to the upcoming Tzar of Kislev and the actual power behind the throne. I also think that he has a far greater variety of connections and he clearly has more favor at court. I'm actually not all that worried about our actual Waystone capabilities at the moment. We already have a pretty big base from which to work with, so I'm fine with working with Boris and cultivating the relationship with the Ice Witches slowly through him rather than going directly to them.
Second reason is I just like the guy.
I think it should be noted here that while Boris is the heir he is not yet Tzar. He could always die before he is crowned, this is the Warhammer world and worse still Kislev. By contrast I do not think it is very likely all the Ice Witches will die. That is the advantage of dealing with institutions.
Boris has a huge amount of influence over well basically everything in Kislev - Ice Witches and Hag Witches included. He is also extremely determined to have extra tools against Chaos; when everyone else treated the project as a worthy but not particularly vital endeavour Boris was like 'You want Kislev's treasury? Have at it. You need to diplomatically push Ulthuan? That's doable'. Some posters were wary of just how earnest and eager Boris was being.
Basically he's not only at the top but he's also someone who will jump in feet first to fight Chaos; if we can convince him that we're a good investment he will go all in to an extent that Luitpold or Thorgrim won't (or at least won't quite as easily).
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...Okay.
I really don't know what to tell you. Yeah he could die. Might as well say that Nagash could wake up and kill us right now and it would provide about as much usefulness to the conversation as that suggestion.
If Boris dies, we have much bigger problems than losing a possible connection.
I'm pretty sure the heir of any given nation dying is both less more and less catastrophic than the rise of the Great Necromancer. I mean he does have siblings yes? Aunts and uncles? Cousins?We already butterflied away Karl Franz and no one was claiming that was a disaster on par with the coming of Nagash, I do not see why Boris' death would be.
Last edited:
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He has no known family other than his daughter. He probably has family, but there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone of them is Boris Ursus. Boris is a Magnus the Pious level individual, not some average guy.
Well, for me (as someone that can't choice.)
A lot to do with it is that, the ice witches are notoriously secretive and unwilling to work with other, even for a mystery cult. And are also known to be stone cold bitchs. (Pun intended in universe, there arcane marks literally make then more and more ruthless and unemotional.)
There is a real chance that no matter how much personal favour we build with them, sharing their secrets will just never be on the table because the sisterhood just doesn't share if they are not forced too.
Boris, on the other hand, is one of the few people that could, in theory, twist their arm enough or give them enough power back to make them share.
It's just that we need to build up a lot of favour for him to go out of his way to do that.
I mean there is no guarantee that Mandred is Karl Franz either, but we still are not getting Karl Franz.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Anyways, you're missing the point. What I'm saying is that the argument you seem to be making is ridiculous to me. Are you suggesting that we should never try to make connections with individuals because they might die? That we should always work with institutions, because they don't die as easily? It's such a bizarre argument to make.
It's unreasonably alarmist thinking. Oh yeah let's not make friends with people because they might die.
I am suggesting that alliances with individuals are inherently less stable than those with institutions, it is not an automatic black ball, just one more minus to add to the tally, one which I have not seen anyone bring up yet.
Last edited:
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Actually it was because of a single song AFAIK, rather than common use. That song being the one Boney was parodying.
ultimately, Boris is the most likely future boss of the ice witches and the Hag witches. two groups that are not known for sharing or even being nice to outsiders, so having a good relationship with him, and then getting to know them through him, and then getting to known them ourselves, is the most likely way of getting them onboard instead of getting the door to the face. (its early Strildnd all over again!)
But: That is a lot of steps, starting with getting enough Favour with Boris for him to try and help (and this trip is unlikely to be enough on its own), to work around the cracky witches. A lot of steps with unclear rewards and with other things and groups to woo. so it is arguable that risking the door to face the scenario of just trying to work with them directly is worth the risk over the slow and steady root.
hence why I'm not sure either way.
But: That is a lot of steps, starting with getting enough Favour with Boris for him to try and help (and this trip is unlikely to be enough on its own), to work around the cracky witches. A lot of steps with unclear rewards and with other things and groups to woo. so it is arguable that risking the door to face the scenario of just trying to work with them directly is worth the risk over the slow and steady root.
hence why I'm not sure either way.
Institutions aren't that much safer; we're not talking about modern, relatively impersonal can-take-to-court institutions here but about a much more informal arrangement where individual personalities matter immensely.
Let's take any individual College as an example; the Patriarchs or Matriarchs have immense discretionary power - they're only restrained or contested by the LMs from inside the power structure. As long as Algard can convince Mathilde and her fellow LMs that what he's doing is fine he can do whatever he wants within the Articles (at least until he clashes with the other Colleges or other institutions). Once he retires Starke or Mathilde or whoever succeeds Algard is only going to be very loosely bound by Algard's priorities.
There is also the 'corporate personality' of the organisation or group as well." To take into account.
I know I'm harping on about this, but the sisterhood doesn't have a reputation that I would… assume will lead to equal 'you scratch my back I'll scratch yours' thinking,
If anything half of there description in realms has them dicking over everyone else in the name of motherland and the current agenda of the sisterhood.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't think Realms even has them as an actual cooperative institution. It felt like the books was describing highly individualistic people each with their own agenda who are only loosely related due to a shared culture and ability. They seem even less united in purpose than the Colleges, and this was during Katarin's reign, and that woman is as strict as they come. She seemed constantly irritated that everyone was doing their own shit instead of working together.
It was only during Tzarina Katarin's reign that the Ice Court was an actual institution I think.
This is a good point - We are not getting Karl Franz, we are getting someone even better.
Consider how awesome canon Boris was, then imagine how awesome he could be with Mathide setting things up for him to go well instead of having to drag Kislev along tooth and nail every step of the way...
We even have evidence that Mathilde can have this kind of impact with Belegar. Should Mathilde have avoided him just because he's one dude?
The notion that the company of the PC will automatically improve not just the cause of a certain region but the people she interacts with as though she were some kind of abstract King Midas does not attract me, both from a narrative perspective and a much more grounded 'we do not have time for this stuff' perspective. AP is limited and we live hundreds of leagues from Kiselv city. If you wanted to get that involved with Boris the vote for that has passed when we chose Laurelorn.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Let's not count on things we can't control.
There's every possibility that Mandred doesn't turn out quite as gifted as Karl Franz was.