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The documents are certainly useful, but to prioritize them is a mistake. They will save time and effort but at a cost of letting the ringleaders get away with their ill-gotten gains to regroup. It is far better I believe to focus on seizing their assets, that way we can both weaken the League's position and strengthen our own. Using the seized assets to invest in other income-generating areas while the trade route is set up again.

I would also like to advocate taking the following option:

[ ] There's a vacuum where a dozen trade guilds should be. Found one of your own, and let information and profits flow through you, and see what the Stirlandian League does about it. (warning: expensive, will need Van Hal or Wilhelmina to sign off on it)

With the newly seized assets, it should be easy enough to cover the cost and would provide an excellent source of information and revenue for ourselves and the Count.
The asseta are the LEAST valuable item there. Immediate liquid wealth for a corporation is usually very low compared to its actual value in trade and connections.

Do it only if we need a shitload of money right now(we do not). Taking the network without crashing the economy when the biggest traders in the province shuts down is pointless.
While I might actually like your plan better than my own, but would you mind clarifying this? Bit confused on how she is double teaming this if we don't organize with her?
She's on the job. We don't need an action to add her bonus
Also, I still firmly believe that not going for the trade guild now, before others have a chance to build up in the vacuum would lose us an opportunity for both new revenue and information. Is there any way I could convince you or @DarkLight140 to change learning for either that or the option below?
Nope. With our Stewardship such and endeavor is a waste of money. We don't have the kind of background or funds needed to make this turn a profit.

Leave that stuff to the stewarship advisor.
 
Note that Val Hal did approve the use of discretionary funds for an Enchanters Workshop. No idea if that extends to all other magical needs and things, but its a start, and could mean we could get by with less embezzlement, due to using said discretionary funds and not our personal funds for magic expenses.
Possible. But really our embezzlement level is well within the Job Perks range and so stopping it isn't really useful when we still have debts
 
Willing to change, though the whole thing on embezzlement for self enrichment is missing the point. We're not breaking our Grey Vows of poverty.

Developing magic is expensive. We need to set up a lab, we need to clean out our dungeon base, we've seen that for instance, building even just the one mirror cage costs a substantial amount of money(like, you can buy a goddamned house for that much), we've been trying to buy magic reagents and tools but we can't outbid Wizard Chic in terms of how much money they can throw at it.

Thus we need to keep some personal funds, and to be aware. I see no reason to change the embezzlement amount until we paid off our fees fully, and have everything set up. Self improvement is expensive.
Once our fees and debts are fully paid off, we need to buy books and other materials to get to Magister, by then we can shift the embezzlement down a notch, but we shouldn't go to 0 in any case. Van Hal would expand the budget once his income improves. Just mention that our networks are reaching the limits of funding in the report
I agree that self-improvement is both important and expensive... but, Van Hal has explicitly authorized us to spend our discretionary income on self-improvement. We brought this up in one of our conversations with him. Buying spell components and equipping a lab are discretionary expenses, not personal ones, since we secured that permission. Remember this?
"I'd like to build an enchanter's workshop and lay in a supply of regents, for my investigations into the enchanted swords and for future projects for Stirland."

"In the castle, or in wherever it is you're living these days?" he asks, a teasing note to his voice.

"...hidden," you hedge.

He smiles, then thinks for a while, his fingers twitching as he moves sums around in his head. "Not right now," he finally says. "If you can make it happen with your discretionary budget you're welcome to, but we can't spare any more money right now, not when we're about to start fortifying the border and building the Langwald-Leigheburg road. Ask me again in a year or so, and we'll see."
So we don't need personal funds for our currently-known expensive magical development tasks. Those are all discretionary, and based upon current trends we'll be able to continue making our self-improvement costs discretionary as long as we ask him about them. So why embezzle at all when we can just openly write these costs off as business expenses, paid for by Stirland by the authority of the Elector Count himself?

As for overwork, it should be reserved for when shit is actually on fire and we have to scramble for everything. Habitual overwork can leave us exhausted when we need the extra actions. Leave it for turns where we actually need to commit 4 actions to just staying on top of things.
This seems like the biggest point of concern for the people voting for your plan over mine based upon feedback, and I'll think on it. I do feel like it's important to take social actions, though. Perhaps we could get GM word on whether we would still get the Intrigue/Learning study bonuses if we took one of the more social-study actions with them instead of solo-study. @BoneyM, could you clarify?

Petty magic meanwhile is actually important: We don't even know how to dispel. If we had those spells last turn? We'd have been able to turn one of the enemy's agents by dispelling the Dhar and have a better lead for unraveling THEIR network.
No one so far has expressed more than a mild preference for shadow magic over petty/lesser magic in our studies, so I'm willing to swap those in my plan unless someone currently voting for it speaks up and expresses a strong preference.

While I might actually like your plan better than my own, but would you mind clarifying this? Bit confused on how she is double teaming this if we don't organize with her?

Also, I still firmly believe that not going for the trade guild now, before others have a chance to build up in the vacuum would lose us an opportunity for both new revenue and information. Is there any way I could convince you or @DarkLight140 to change learning for either that or the option below?
My understanding is that our two-action commitment to destroying the Stirlandian League automatically implies coordination with Wilhelmina, and that any further actions involving her would be on top of that existing work together.

I agree that the Stirlandian League vanishing will be a major opportunity for traders and guilds to start up, as they can take advantage of the new economic circumstances. However, I don't think it has to happen THIS turn- the options mention that there is space for "a dozen guilds", and that's the kind of hole that doesn't close quickly. There will be opportunities to make money and build intel networks by exploiting the absence of the Stirlandian League for several turns to come at minimum.
 
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[X] Plan no fires.
-[x] The assets of the Stirlandian League will be a huge boost to Stirland's coffers.
-[x] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned.
--[x] Intrigue
-[x] Practice, Practice, Practice: Having been thrown into the deep end of imperial politics, it would probably be a good idea to brush up on your skills and internalize the lessons you've learned.
--[x] Learning
-[x] Personally construct the Mirrorcatch Box. Though being around that many mirrors for that long makes you antsy, there's nobody else you can trust with the task. (Ranald's blessing)
-[x][ Enchantment: So far you've failed to find suitable equipment (damn Wizard Chic) but youcould always try again with local goods.
-[x] Free Time: Now well-established in Wurtbad, you can spend some time in your scant off hours gettingto know someone better.
--[x] Wilhelma
-[x] Change embezzlement
--[x] Change to no embezzlement.
 
Overwork... maybe should be saved for crises? I don't like the 'barely avoiding a very serious consequence' from last time. I have no objections to training with Gustav as such, but it doesn't seem a priority- as in it will be of very situational benefit to fight better from horseback. A social link could be useful, but his reaction to a super-shadow-horse-Wizard showing him up in her centaur-saddle is not guaranteed to be positive. So I'm not inclined to overwork just to get this in a plan.
Gustav is in love with cavalry, and Wizard Chic has consumed both Altdorf and Stirland.

Having a mage on hand who can shit him out a hundred untiring shadow-beasts in a foggy morning is valuable, I think he'll see that.
[X] Documents and Training

Not a fan of overwork, but I struggle to think of what a catastrophic learning failure might be, besides making us look like even more of a dummy.
Possibly -1 to Learning instead of +1? Like, she learned something wrong.
*overworks learning intrigue*
*Superior Seduction for the Salacious Sorcerous*
GM: "roll a diplo check wherever interacting with Hall to avoid awkward flirting"

"Huh, my 'How to win friends' book suggests picking my target based on long, flowing hair and rippling abs. Well, who am I to argue?"

*Weber has misplaced her Intrigue text for a tawdy romance novel by accident*
 
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So we don't need personal funds for our currently-known expensive magical development tasks. Those are all discretionary, and based upon current trends we'll be able to continue making our self-improvement costs discretionary as long as we ask him about them. So why embezzle at all when we can just openly write these costs off as business expenses, paid for by Stirland by the authority of the Elector Count himself?
Again, discretionary funds are for job expenses. We can't assume all self improvement counts as reasonable job expenses. Nor our student debts and home improvement projects.

We're still embezzling within expectations here. There'd be a bigger issue with constantly leaning on our personal friendship with our boss to mix the budgets than with simply skimming off the top for unexpected personal expenses.

Especially not when we've been wiping the supposedly large personal treasury out every 3 turns.
Not that you're wrong, but the private possessions of members of the Stirlandian League are also up for grabs.
Even accounting for that. After all as per the council meeting, we don't need more money right away, but we do need more income because the outflows are rising
 
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[X] Plan Bless The Snake

I dithered considerably between long-term and short-term income (curse you Boney!) but eventually settled on long.
I like the ranald blessing on the mirrorsnake, definitely NOT a fan of going insane or being mercykilled by van Hal
 
Again, discretionary funds are for job expenses. We can't assume all self improvement counts as reasonable job expenses. Nor our student debts and home improvement projects.
Honestly, we kind of can- not the student debt, but our personal pay is larger than the payments on that. For the rest of it...

Does Stirland want a spymaster who can turn invisible? Hell yes, Stirland wants a spymaster who can turn invisible. Therefore Stirland pays for our how-to-turn-invisible books.

Does Stirland want its spymaster to have an underground base with all kinds of traps and enchantments and improvements? Well, as spymaster of Stirland, we can make that call at our discretion. Our discretion says that yes, Stirland would be better off if the trapdoor to our base was enchanted so that it never is noticed, so Stirland pays for the enchantment.

Thinking that we need to pay for any of this out of personal expenses is kind of silly. We're not constructing massive boondoggles or conducting experimental theoretical research with no practical applications here; basically everything we do has been job-applicable. I can find almost no expenses the entire game so far that isn't something a highly-paid contractor in a modern corporate environment couldn't reasonably charge to their client, except the student loans.
 
But our official income covers our debts, so why do we need to embezzle to cover them?
We have expenses other than the debts.
Honestly, we kind of can- not the student debt, but our personal pay is larger than the payments on that. For the rest of it...

Does Stirland want a spymaster who can turn invisible? Hell yes, Stirland wants a spymaster who can turn invisible. Therefore Stirland pays for our how-to-turn-invisible books.

Does Stirland want its spymaster to have an underground base with all kinds of traps and enchantments and improvements? Well, as spymaster of Stirland, we can make that call at our discretion. Our discretion says that yes, Stirland would be better off if the trapdoor to our base was enchanted so that it never is noticed, so Stirland pays for the enchantment.

Thinking that we need to pay for any of this out of personal expenses is kind of silly. We're not constructing massive boondoggles or conducting experimental theoretical research with no practical applications here; basically everything we do has been job-applicable. I can find almost no expenses the entire game so far that isn't something a highly-paid contractor in a modern corporate environment couldn't reasonably charge to their client, except the student loans.

Note that anything we spend from the discretionary budget has to be named and listed. While yes, Van Hal has authorized both our requests at present, we do still need to ask, expanding our secret base still costs from personal budget.

It is thus actually better for our boss for us to not bug him or Wilhelmina over every expense and keep a personal piggy bank.

Noting again, that the whole "we have lots of momey so we should stop" argument is full of holes when we've managed to burn through the current amount in a single action. Much less a whole turn.

The whole writing off personal expenses thing is a lot clunkier and dodgier than functionally increasing our pay.
 
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What differences do you feel most strongly about? Do you really want to (not) embezzle? Are you concerned about the dangers of overwork? Is the potential social link with Gustav irresistible/distasteful? Do you really, really want those petty magics/feel like we're hardly a shadowmancer at all until we learn more actual shadow magic spells?
Voting for snake, I'd prefer to stop embezzling but it's not a huge sticking point. OTOH not over working on a relatively trivial matter is non-negotiable; that's just asking for trouble. I think the Gustav write-up is a but silly, and would prefer to SL other people before him anyways- with his recklessness there's no telling if he'll even be alive next year. For magic, I'm of the opinion that the wide spread of comparatively minor utility is worth delaying learning a single more powerful spell. It's already been pointed out but we could've really used dispel, and the others would be nice to have in general.
 
We have expenses other than the debts.
Based on what I was replying to, your objection was to stopping embezzling while we have debts.

As for our other expenses, we can stop excavating the Buried Palace and that's the majority of our non-loan personal expenses gone. It's not like we need the extra rooms. Setting up an enchantment lab, the only thing people have had the idea of doing with spare rooms, doesn't require that we excavate any further, because we've already got one spare.

That would leave us with just tithes and loan repayments, and the occasional small purchase like new clothes this last turn. Everything else can be paid for with our discretionary income.
 
As for our other expenses, we can stop excavating the Buried Palace and that's the majority of our non-loan personal expenses gone. It's not like we need the extra rooms. Setting up an enchantment lab, the only thing people have had the idea of doing with spare rooms, doesn't require that we excavate any further, because we've already got one spare.

I've removed the option to excavate the Buried Palace piecemeal as part of my efforts to cut down on complexity - now it's an action and some money to just excavate every room available to you and explore the now-exposed nearest reaches of the Palace.
 
It's already been pointed out but we could've really used dispel, and the others would be nice to have in general.
I would like to know how people think we would have used Dispel last turn. We didn't even think to look for a spell with the first guy, so we wouldn't have gotten any use of it there. With the woman we captured, Dispel wouldn't have helped us either. She gave us all the information she had, so we didn't run out of time. She couldn't have been used to counter-infiltrate, because they'd notice the missing spell. She wouldn't even have lived, because we executed her so that her family wouldn't face reprisals. What benefit would we have had?
 
For magic, I'm of the opinion that the wide spread of comparatively minor utility is worth delaying learning a single more powerful spell. It's already been pointed out but we could've really used dispel, and the others would be nice to have in general.
Being able to walk about invisibly would have meant we wouldn't have had to walk about in our underwear, which I imagine Weber would have preferred.
I would like to know how people think we would have used Dispel last turn. We didn't even think to look for a spell with the first guy, so we wouldn't have gotten any use of it there. With the woman we captured, Dispel wouldn't have helped us either. She gave us all the information she had, so we didn't run out of time. She couldn't have been used to counter-infiltrate, because they'd notice the missing spell. She wouldn't even have lived, because we executed her so that her family wouldn't face reprisals. What benefit would we have had?
I guess we could have chosen to keep the stoolie infiltrator alive? I dunno.
 
@veekie @DarkLight140 thank you for prompt answers. Do you have any opinions on Siual's write in for Crisis of Faith?
While I have personally an interest in converting Van Hal to Ranald, I also note the thread already decided that we wouldn't based on the last vote. Meanwhile we literally know zero other priests, and the most suitable god hates witches.

Barring things getting worse or other info coming up I'd leave Van Hal to find his own faith and stick to our job. Maybe if he asks us.

Not much point adding it in when half the players feel its a dealbreaker.
 
Note that anything we spend from the discretionary budget has to be named and listed. While yes, Van Hal has authorized both our requests at present, we do still need to ask, expanding our secret base still costs from personal budget.

It is thus actually better for our boss for us to not bug him or Wilhelmina over every expense and keep a personal piggy bank.

Noting again, that the whole "we have lots of momey so we should stop" argument is full of holes when we've managed to burn through the current amount in a single action. Much less a whole turn.

The whole writing off personal expenses thing is a lot clunkier and dodgier than functionally increasing our pay.
We can name and list things easily, including our secret base- we told Van Hal that we wanted a secret base and he said "that's fine as long as you can pay for it from your current budget". If Van Hal audits our books and sees "secret base expansion" or "magical research materials" or "spellbooks" as line items on our discretionary budget he'll go "this all seems in order, Mathilde, carry on". Which is exactly how things should be.

We can burn through our entire store of personal funds in one turn if we pay for huge expenses out of personal funds, sure. But why would we do that? The only reasons I can think of are that we're trying to hide them from Van Hal or we don't think that they can be reasonably justified as to the benefit of Stirland. I cannot, at this moment, think of a single huge expense which we actually want to do in the near future which fits into those categories. Can you?

And if you think actually explaining what we're buying and why it's important to Stirland's welfare is dodgier than outright embezzlement so that we can avoid accounting for anything we do financially is, then... I don't know what to tell you. That's just wrong. Having a written list of everything you spent money on so that your boss can approve it is, in fact, just about the definition of not being dodgy financially.
 
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Based on what I was replying to, your objection was to stopping embezzling while we have debts.

As for our other expenses, we can stop excavating the Buried Palace and that's the majority of our non-loan personal expenses gone. It's not like we need the extra rooms. Setting up an enchantment lab, the only thing people have had the idea of doing with spare rooms, doesn't require that we excavate any further, because we've already got one spare.

That would leave us with just tithes and loan repayments, and the occasional small purchase like new clothes this last turn. Everything else can be paid for with our discretionary income.
Once the loans are paid and the dungeon fully excavated(leaving bits buried is just asking for a gribbly to come up our ass one day) I should have no issue with cutting the embezzlement. Most of them should fall within our pay range.

All I can see of the current plan to cut it entirely is excessive optimism not reflected in quest reality or history.
I guess we could have chosen to keep the stoolie infiltrator alive? I dunno.

If she was alive we could have used her to trace back to her origin village and slap more eyes on.
 
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