Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Whew, I'm done with finals, so it's DL time. The first thing I want to say is that I like the vibes I'm getting from the narrative lately @Boney. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not, but it sort of feels like you're experimenting with a bit of a new style? Or is it going back to an old style? This update felt a lot more introspective than many of the other updates, full of tangents that Mathilde goes on in regards to her wanderings and musings, as if her mind is constantly scattering all over the place but always withdrawing back to her head when she needs to while maintaining a facade of "I was always here". Incredibly relatable to the ADHD experience. I've always felt that each "arc" you've been making has a different vibe, from Stirland to K8P to Karag Dum and now Laurelorn, I'm not sure if it's intentional or notm but there is something about the writing, maybe it's just the setting, that changes the feeling I get from reading.

With Stirland, there was definitely a hesitant, unsure edge to Mathilde. She didn't know what she was doing, and she was a huge dork and that was obvious to everyone. But she was trying her best and succeeded magnificently when needed. Her anxiety was also far more visible, culminating in the infamously painful scene of Abelhelm telling Mathilde to value herself more because she's one of the strongest people in Stirland. Then it transitioned to K8P where Mathilde's grief and trauma changed the way she presented herself. I guess she seemed more "closed off" and "mysterious", but there was the occasional dorky moment like cooking with Panoramia that always reminds us that underneath all the layers of obfuscation and trauma Mathilde is still the same person. Her career in K8P seemed to largely be creating an air of mystery around her actions.

Back in Stirland, a lot of things were grounded, and interactions with the common folk was incredibly common. I remember vividly a scene where Mathilde bonds with the Vilage Chief of Biderhof by comparing ancestry. In K8P though, Mathilde has climbed the ranks and is exclusively interacting with powerful or eccentric individuals. People who would understand her better, like other Wizards or people with a great burden on their shoulders (Belegar, Ulthar and Kragg for example). I think I could actually make a whole essay on the way that Roswita's treatment of Mathilde and the effects of the campaign in Sylvania affected Mathilde, and the fact that it was the Dwarves who extended a helping hand, saving her life and checking in with her with a Barazul, that created the inevitable journey that resulted in Mathilde becoming the Dwarf-Friend she is today.

I suppose what I'm saying is that the longer the quest goes on, the more fantastical the quest becomes, but that isn't to say that it's ever lost its grounded touch. There is still a deeply human element to the story even with all the bizarre magical and fantastic stuff that happens. All the characters feel like fleshed out, deep personalities with their motivations and desires, and that is what I love about the quest so much.

Anyways, I went on an absolutely huge tangent. I wanted to make a reaction post and I'm already 550 words in without a single reaction:

With Egrimm already in and out of the Light College while trying to uncover usable details on their origins, it was very easy to transition that into him remaining there for a prolonged period while preparing for whatever tests or rituals mark a promotion to Lord Magister among the Light Order. But you're a little worried about how Egrimm might take this meddling in his career, so you rearrange your own schedule so you can be nearby when he is either promoted or passed over to congratulate or commiserate. This will also give you an opportunity to touch base with one of your newest partners in the Waystone Project.

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I'd like to remind people that Egrimm was by far the most socialed character in the Karag Dum expedition, with a total of four actions taken (Eastern Oblast, Wind Falls, Black Blood Pass, Tobol). This is not counting the in depth conversations they had outside those actions, which came about as a result of Egrimm saving Mathilde's life in the battle of Karak Vlag and the other their farewell conversation. 6 months after the expedition, we then snipe him from under Alric into our project, and now for a full year and two consecutive turns we took a social action to check up on him. Despite his relatively late appearance, Egrimm might be one of the most socialed contacts we have so far.

From an outside perspective Mathilde might look like an overly caring, heavily involved kind boss who's super involved in making sure her subordinates are being well treated.

Don't get the wrong idea Egrimm. Max and Johann don't get this treatment. You're just high maintenance.

and part of that means that as the guest of a Magister,

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Is this supposed to be guest of a Magister or guest of a Lord Magister? Seems like an overly fancy waiting room to provide for any visitor to a Magister.

The Light Order is rather more open to guests than the Grey, and part of that means that as the guest of a Magister, you have one of their guest rooms made available to you. Despite this welcoming gesture, you find yourself far from comfortable as you do your best to settle in, and can't seem to shake a feeling of being exposed. Part of that is undoubtedly metaphysical in origin as your Ulgu-rich self is smothered in its cardinal opposite, but it's also a result of the ambient light seeping into the room from every angle. You're undoubtedly far from the first to not be entirely comfortable in these environs, and there's a freshly-laundered sleep mask waiting for you on the bedside table.

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Have I mentioned that I really like the introspective looks into the day to day of a Wizard? I really like the little tidbits of worldbuilding Boney likes to throw in about magic and what it's like to live with it. There are a lot of moments like this in the chapter, since Mathilde is really being pushed out of her comfort zone. She's so used to being in control the past decade or so that it's a bit discombobulating being pushed into one situation and then another where she's always the one at a disadvantage.

You rise early the next morning from uneasy sleep for your meeting with Lady Magister Elrisse. Her full title is High Luminary, Treatite, and Abjurer Elrisse, which signify a Lord Magister who focuses on the pursuit of practitioners of unsanctioned magic and has secondary specializations in academia and the banishment of Daemons. Her role in the Order's hierarchy is that of Gatekeeper, which is a surprisingly grounded title for the Light Order, and you can only conclude that it refers to more esoteric and metaphorical gates rather than the mere front doors of the College, which is equivalent to the Grey Order's Provost - the one responsible for internal security. You don't doubt that between your involvement in Light Order affairs and her future involvement in your Project, she'd have done some digging into your own background. You wonder how many roadblocks she would have encountered in doing so, and how she would have reacted to them.

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Very neat worldbuilding, and not something I remember from the books. The books don't really go too deep into what the titles of the Light Order mean. I'm a bit surprised Elrisse doesn't have her canonical title of "Chanter". Maybe that's just a common title and not super notable, or maybe Boney is just making his own stuff, it doesn't matter all that much.

Only other thing I want to say is that the guy who started the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels had the title of "High Luminary Horx", so there's that. I suppose spending all your time hunting down unsactioned magic users can lead you to think of what you could do if you had access to those forbidden secrets.

Your meeting is to take place in the Sun Room of Volans, and you wonder if it originally belonged to the Light Order's founder or whether it was merely named for him. You take a moment to consider the bust of him beside the door; the offputtingly blank stare of marble eyes would be accurate in this case, as every depiction of him you've seen had solid white eyes that the touch of Hysh sometimes imparts. Considering his history, you wonder if he developed them under Teclis' tutelage, or whether they were a result of his disastrous early experimentations with magic in a long foreshadowing of his future path. You also wonder how he'd feel about the modern strife within his Order.

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More internal meanderings and wanderings. I'm starting to get the feeling that the reason for Mathilde's scattershot thought processes lately might be the result of growing more and more attuned to Ulgu. Ulgu is the Wind of Curiousity, and it is drawn to questions. Mathilde is constantly wondering things and asking herself questions and positing scenarios in her head, which she doesn't always do. Maybe she's trying to create Ulgu in her mind in a place that is usually so devoid of it?

I might be looking way too deep into it, but it's fun.

Inside the room there are a pair of reclining chairs parallel and separated by a few feet in the middle of a sunbeam that appears to come from nowhere in particular. According to your mental map you're too deep within the structure to be receiving direct sunlight, but you suppose moving sunlight around would be a triviality to the Light Order in the heart of their power. One of the chairs occupied by who you presume to be Lady Magister Elrisse. Her eyes open and she gives you a long, considering look before speaking. "Lady Magister."

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I think I would have appreciated a better look at what she looks like, or at least what her eyes look like, so I can visualise this scene better. I understand that it's not really Boney's style and that he prefers leaving things blank for us to fill in, but I am a very visual reader.

No I'm not asking for a description because I want a better idea of what to thirst over. Why do you ask?

"Lady Magister," you respond, hiding your reluctance as you take your place in the chair beside her, refusing to show that this setting is about as comfortable to a Grey Wizard as a mounting board would be to a butterfly. You also resist the urge to feel resentment over this arrangement. As the woman in charge of internal security for the Order of Light, not taking every advantage she can would be disrespecting your capabilities.

She shifts onto her side to look directly at you, and you copy her movements with some awkwardness. These chairs go in and out of vogue every few years among the nobility, but your only encounters with them had been in books, and you'd much rather be upright and with a table between the two of you.

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I'm sorry, but I just recently finished Arcane, so my first thought was that they somewhat looked like this:

Spoiler

Except facing the same direction. And hopefully less intimate. I suppose that might be a reason for the awkwardness and Mathilde mentioning that she only knew it from books. Not exactly the most professional of settings to be lying on your side to talk to your business partner in reclining chairs under the sunlight.

"I am told we are to work together," she says, "in exchange for services performed for the good of the Order of Light. I am leery of a Grey Wizard having a part in our internal politics, but you have been vouched for at the highest levels."

"I am honoured by their trust in me," you say, wondering precisely which highest levels she's been talking to.

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Several possibilities. Mira, Algard, Dragomas and I suppose the Emperor if Heidi made him give an endorsement? Depends on what Elrisse considers to be "highest level".

"Trust is hard to find between Light and Grey, but if we are to be colleagues, we must cultivate it. I would ask that you explain to me how this Project came about." Her tone is steady and well-enunciated and just short of being rhythmic, as though they had been hammered into place in an attempt to bulwark against the vagaries of the spoken word.

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Boney I will have you know that I've been restraining myself since you wrote this:

"I'll keep an eye on them when it's not on my three. Being watched from both the light and the shadow should keep them on the right path."

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One Brings Shadow, One Brings the Light.

She nods. "My own credentials are in counterespionage, counter-daemonology, and Article 13 enforcement. I have relevant experience in the purging of malign energies and in encounters with Waystones corrupted for fell purposes, two of which were restored and one necessitated destruction. I also have access to many relevant accounts of events involving Waystones in the Luminarian Archives, the vaults of the Librarium Secularum, and the sacristies of the Order of the Silver Hammer."

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I assume Luminarian Archives are the libaries of the Light Order. Librarium Secularum is the secular library of the Cathedral of Sigmar. I had to look up what sacristy means. I have no idea why the vaults of the Witch Hunters are in a sacristy instead of a more secular name, when the Cathedral of Sigmar has a secular section. Magnus really failed in trying to secularise the Witch Hunters I guess.

You consider both her and your reply. She makes all the proper expressions and replies one does in conversation, but there's a moment of blank concentration before each, as though she has to take a moment to conceive of the right reply. You wonder if this is a mark left by Hysh she is attempting to work around, or a more personal idiosyncrasy. "And what of the wisdom Volans was inheritor to?"

"I know what all of my rank know, and have access to more, should it be necessary."

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Alright, so I'm a bit curious. Before, Mathilde said: "Her tone is steady and well-enunciated and just short of being rhythmic, as though they had been hammered into place in an attempt to bulwark against the vagaries of the spoken word". Now, she mentions that Elrisse looks like she's concentrating whenever she's about to make an expression or reply, as if she's thinking of the best way to do it. This combined with the practiced nature of her speech as if she is warding away the wanderings of spoken language give me a bit of a neurodivergent vibe. Could be ADHD, could be on the spectrum. If I have time to prepare for a conversation, then I actually make a flow chart and consult it to concieve the best possible outcome and make sure that I'm not misunderstood. It's nice to see a character on screen working with a similar difficulty (as if she's consulting a mental chart on what best to say), even if it turns out she isn't ND.

It's possible that it's an Arcane Mark, albeit not one recorded on the books (custom Arcane Marks are a thing), but I'd like to think it's just something mundane she's working through. It's not like it's my most out there headcanon (that might be trans Mathilde).

She considers you. "I will take that under advisement," she eventually concludes. "But it will not benefit the Empire if we surrender the wisdom of ancients to the first Elf who asks nicely."

"We will not benefit anyone at all if we sit upon a hoard of secrets until Chaos overtakes the world."

She considers you for a long moment. "The Elves are not your Dwarves," she finally says. "If they can extract all of our secrets and give us nothing in exchange, they will do so gladly, and without the faintest twinge of conscience."

"I'm aware. If they were Dwarves, I wouldn't be trying to bluff them."

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"Your Dwarves". Heh. I suppose Mathilde's reputation has something to it, that Elrisse is being so direct like that. I think it's obvious to someone of her station how much the Dwarves mean to Mathilde and vice versa. There's a reason she was scouted as an option for ambassador to the Dwarven realms despite lack of diplomatic training.

You're not entirely sure if her smile in response to that is amused or condescending. "You would seek to use lies and deceit to manipulate them into a mutually beneficial arrangement?"

"The only thing wrong with that sentence is the tense it's in. I am using lies and deceit to manipulate them into a mutually beneficial arrangement."

"Then I believe I have established an understanding. Thank you."

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Bold words from Mathilde. I also find it funny that Mathilde is outright admitting that she's being duplicitous so that a positive outcome to all is achieved. What a funny situation.

"A question in response, if I may." She nods. "It is odd to me that someone in a position that would demand loyalty, or at least neutrality, to the Magister Patriarch is aligned against him."

She considers that for a time. "I can see why you would believe that to be the case, but it isn't," she finally says. "I am here talking to you, not nipping at his heels in Talabecland. What Alric wants most of all is for his Order to finally outgrow him, and if this Project is a success, that serves Alric's ultimate objective and Mira's immediate goal."

"You're hedging your bets."

"I suppose one could describe it that way."

You nod. "Thank you for your honesty. I am glad we could go into this with an understanding of each other."

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I don't think I got a huge grasp on Elrisse, but I liked what I saw. Also, I have to question if Alric's goal really is for the Order to outgrow him, considering how heavily he's clinging on to his position like a leech and stealing the credit of his subordinate. Doesn't really paint a picture of someone who cares for anything but himself.

The time where a dejected and rejected Egrimm would have emerged comes and goes, and you go off to have a meal while you wait for the next time of possible emergence. And finally, at the end of what you're absolutely sure was an unnecessarily long-winded ceremony, Egrimm emerges from the inner chambers of the Light College in the ceremonial garb of a Lord Magister of the Order of Light. Well, in most of it. He's already removed the very tall mitre, which would be completely unwearable anywhere with normal-size doorways, and is staring at the embossed snake on it like he's worried it will bite him. "Congratulations, Lord Magister Egrimm," you say, patting him on the shoulder as best you can around the large and intricate coiled snake pauldrons. "Rather belatedly, but well-deservedly."

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I had to look up what a mitre even was. Boney is making me learn so many new words today. Educational.

and is staring at the embossed snake on it like he's worried it will bite him.

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Funny reference to canon Horstmann and his sister being thrown in a pit of snakes by Alric. Or it could be a coincidence.

"Thank you," he says, tucking the mitre under his arm. "And not just for the congratulations. I know you had a part in it. There's no way someone so tied to Alric would be getting promoted right now otherwise."

"You're quite welcome," you say with a smile.

"Now you don't outrank me, though," he says, the unasked question is clear in his expression. You could pretend you don't know what he means, or just say it was the right thing to do, but that wouldn't be the way to handle him now.

"Outranking you gives me no utility," you say instead. "If you don't want to be a part of what I'm doing, then using rank to force you would be the same stupid mistake Alric made. I'd rather have no help at all than rightfully recalcitrant help."

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I'm glad Mathilde was perfectly honest with him and understanding of his concerns. Mathilde is really growing in her understanding of people.

He nods slowly as he considers that. "Thank you," he says again. "And I will be sticking with you. If nothing else - and in truth you've provided a lot of 'else' - then because Tor Lithanel is a great place to hunker down and wait for this conflict to be over."

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Aw, that's sweet. Have I told you guys about my elaborate Horstmann x Johannx Kadoh poly ship and how I want Horstmann to be sandwiched between them? No? Anyways, I'm filing that "a lot of 'else'" away to my personal folder.

You smile. "So, how was it? Esoteric and ominous?"

"Funnily enough, not so much," he says with a smile. "I just got done swearing terrible oaths not to reveal the details, but I can tell you that it's extremely obvious where someone, or more likely a lot of someones, went in there and carefully reworded everything so that everything has an entirely secular meaning if you examine it from a post-Teclisean lens. Trying to make a metaphor fit the old traditions and the new truth at the same time makes for a lot of really bad metaphors. What about yours?"

"They showed me an ancient and powerful secret and gave me seven different and mutually exclusive explanations for it."

"Wizards," he sighs.

You nod in agreement. "Sometimes I think they're just making it up as they go along."

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I love Mathilde and Horstmann's friendship. It's great. I honestly wouldn't mind him becoming evil so we get a sweet angsty "you were my brother Horstmann!" moment, but I'm perfectly fine with a supportive friendship between two perfectly innocent angels.

The next morning you're up almost as early as usual, feeling only slightly worse for wear and probably a great deal better than Egrimm. Celebratory drinks with him demonstrated to you what you would have guessed: that the lifestyle of the Light College leaves one with much less of a head for alcohol than that of a Dwarven Karak, but a much better singing voice.

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I was going to point out that there is an Arcane Mark for Hysh called Choral Voice that makes it sound like you're singing in Choir and maybe Horstmann has it, but then I figured that Horstmann is probably a good singer because he was in a choir.

Now, the question to end all questions. @Boney this is very important.

Is Horstmann a Bass, Baritone, Tenor or Countertenor or is his voice range even past that? Are Light Magisters restricted by human voice range?

As you're packing your things for your departure from Altdorf, you receive a short note delivered by the Light College's staff from your own Order - specifically, from Lord Magister Reiner Starke, asking for you to drop by his office at your convenience. That he specifies his office instead of a more general meeting indicates it's on the business of his office, and it's rarely a good sign for anyone to receive an unexpected invitation to the Porter's office.

You suppose this was inevitable, you tell yourself after running through the first dozen disastrous scenarios. Getting entangled in the business of other Orders would always mean more eyes on you, and eventually those eyes would find something of some shade of untoward. That you received a polite invitation at a reasonable hour indicates that whatever was turned up wasn't too bad. That rules out the Liber Mortis, the former Empress, and probably the current Empress. That just leaves... well, a lot of things, none of which strictly wrong, but lots that could look bad if stumbled over by someone unused to the shades of grey that your occupation requires. The embezzlement would be the most uncomfortable possibility, you suppose. Oh. No, actually that is a very distant second. The Underwear Incident, that would absolutely be the most uncomfortable. Then there's involvement with various frowned-upon groups - thieves, tricksters, spies, radical sects, merchants. Dubious experimentation that you weren't ever explicitly cleared for. Involvement with foreign magic-users. Encounters with the forces of Chaos...

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Good old Mathilde the overthinker. Reminds me of the Thorek assassination thing, but even more longwinded because of all the options she had to go through in her mind. Honestly I think Mathilde just thinks through dozens of scenarios as a way to calm herself down at the moment. She's very well trained in working through her panic by going through every scenario and logicking it out, then crossing out unlikely scenarios but keeping them in the back of her head. What a wonderfully anxious existence she lives. I don't envy her.

Then there's involvement with various frowned-upon groups - thieves, tricksters, spies, radical sects, merchants.

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This is just funny. Ah yes, Merchants, infamous for being just as bad as thieves, tricksters, spies and radical sects. I suppose from a certain perspective, they are.

You suppose the whole Only Mork thing might also be a possibility. But while it is the sort of thing that would raise a great deal of questions, only five other beings know about that and you can't really see any of them gossiping to the rumour mill of the Colleges about it.

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I was a bit stumped at what the five were at first. Ranald, Kragg, Belegar and Gunnars are obvious, but I was wondering who the fifth was. Then I remembered that Gork and Mork aren't always considered the same thing, so I suppose Gork was the other. Yeah I don't see him gossipping to the Light College.

Well, you could think yourself in knots for hours going over the possibilities, but the only way to get an answer is to go to the meeting.

You reconsider that last thought, and mentally edit it. The only way to get an answer, excluding methods unacceptably likely to cause even more trouble, is to go to the meeting.

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Classic Mathilde.

"Lady Magister Weber," Lord Magister Reiner Starke greets you as you step into the room. You're very careful to leave that 'step' unmodified by descriptors - you do not step cautiously, or hesitantly, or brashly. You simply... step. "Thank you for visiting me on such short notice."

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Mathilde has such power over the narrative she can remove descriptors. How terrifying.

"The security of the Grey Order is ever my concern," you say as you take a seat across from him. He had called you in as soon as you knocked, which can't be taken as a good or bad sign on its own. It could be good that he's not playing games by making you wait, but it could be bad that this is so important that he's dropped whatever else he was doing.

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I'm growing more and more convinced that Mathilde's thought processes actively lead to overthinking because of her saturation with Ulgu. She analyses the speed of someone replying to her damn knocking. That's something else. She doesn't even come to a usable conclusion, she just overthinks for the sake of overthinking.

"That may be overstating my purpose for this meeting. This is a courtesy to you. A counterpart of mine in another Order-" Elrisse, you guess immediately, and then second-guess that. If it was her, she surely could have timed it better to make it less obvious, so perhaps it is the Jade equivalent. Or perhaps Elrisse knew that you'd think that, so she- you remember that Reiner is still talking, and force your attention to return to his words, quickly running through what he has been saying that a corner of your mind had been paying attention to the whole time. "-was doing a routine investigation and came across some irregularities. Do you recall your involvement with the Wurtbad Watch?"

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That is an amazing tidbit. Mathilde has shown this ability before, but it was explicitly mentioned as a Wolf ability:

A trick of memory that would have been more difficult when you only had one memory to work with. You compare notes with the recollections stored in Wolf's mind, ignoring the parallel adventures through the streets of Middenheim he got on with his new friends.

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Mathilde can just partition one part of her mind to listen intently and another to go through an entire tangent. How amazing. I wish I had that. I wonder if this demonstration of the ability is also from Wolf or it's just something she trained herself to have. Parallel thought processes sound astoundingly useful for generating internal Ulgu.

Ah, yes. The Watch you put a professional thief in charge of. The Watch you tried to convert to the worship of Ranald. The Watch you sort of stole the Gong Farmers from. And a saltpeter factory. "Yes, I recall."

"I understand that your handling of their spiritual welfare was... what some might describe as unconventional." His voice and expression are worryingly neutral.

You're careful to keep your expression unmoved. "We're Grey Wizards, Reiner. Conventional isn't our purview."

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Let's be real here, I'm not sure the Watch missed the Gong Farmers all that much. I clearly recall how dissasatisfied the Watch members were at being relegated to sewer/underground men thinking it would hurt their reputation. I imagine the Gong Farmers' loss didn't hurt them that deeply.

He gives you a long look at that, and then his expression softens. "That's fair. Okay, let me be clear. The Grey Order has unambiguously endorsed the actions of Journeyman Mathilde Weber twice over. I'm not here to autopsy the events of a decade ago, and even if I were inclined to do so, this particular event wouldn't be worth any of our time. Each one of us has many events in our past that can be pointed to as mishandled with the luxury of hindsight. But while you and I and every other Grey Wizard worth a damn knows this, there's a lot of important people out there who aren't Grey Wizards, and they might stumble across traces of things that aren't problems, and between misunderstanding and skewed perspectives, mistake them for problems. Or if they come at it with ill intent, they could make them into problems. You can end this conversation right now and walk away if you want, that is your prerogative, and I'll consider the matter closed and if I have my way we'll never have to talk about this again. But if we do have that conversation here and now, then I'll have your version of those events right here on file, not the garbled misunderstandings some outsider spills all over my desk. And having that means I'd be a lot more able to get ahead of possible future manufactured discreditation before it has a chance to begin."

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Starke is quite the reasonable individual. I'm liking this take on him that Boney cooked up. The tidbits we get from him in canon don't exactly paint him in the best way (he employs some seriously questionable methods to enforce Sigmarism in places he moves through).

The attempted conversion of the Watch was... not your finest moment. With the Watch already grumbling and Abelhelm's death still raw, you'd funnelled your grief into what might have been a punitive war against Sigmarism among the Watch and expelled a number of watchmen from it over the vandalism of the shrines to Ranald the Protector. That would have left quite a trail of bitter men willing to tell the tale to anyone who stood still long enough. And Reiner is right: if someone heard the worst version from someone who'd been letting their bitterness marinade for a decade, or if they went out of their way to spin it as badly as possible, this could lead to future discomfort. It would make sense to have a justification here in Altdorf, ready to go. But what explanation to give?

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I think marinade here should be marinate.

[ ] Piety
You converted the Wurtbad Watch to Ranald because you worship Ranald, and it would have given you a better hold over the organization. Simple and true, but it would mean revealing your faith.

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I've already said my piece on this. Not very interested in it.

[ ] Grief
You acted rashly after the death of Abelhelm, a death that Sigmar could have prevented, and acted out against a largely Sigmarite institution under your control. While true and understandable, it does hint towards the extent of your rather complicated feelings towards your former liege, and you might not want those hints available for cross-referencing if the Underwear Incident ever comes to light.

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I don't think I want to mention my feelings about the thought of Mathilde and Abelhelm being confused for lovers. I'm moving on.

[ ] Trauma
You stood over your dying liege and fought against an endless tide of undead, waiting for reinforcements that almost never came. You took command when nobody else would and gave orders that led to the deaths of thousands. You sentenced a Necromancer to death and smiled as you watched him burn alive. In the aftermath of all that, you were not at your best. That's why you mishandled the situation.

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My favored option. It's honest and understandable. Nobody who gets to Mathilde's position in the Colleges doesn't have their own share of traumatic experiences, and it would be utterly idiotic to attempt to use this against her.

[ ] Skaven
Sure, you didn't know about them then, but Reiner doesn't know that. Say that you had plans to turn the Watch into an instrument for defending against the Skaven. As part of the Conspiracy of Silence, Sigmarite creed denies the existence of the Skaven, so it was necessary to convert the Watch to some other God, and the Night Prowler was the best fit for a subterranean war.

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Not sure about lying to him.

[ ] Nothing
Give a non-answer. You don't fully remember the details, but you made the best decision you could with the information you had available to you at the time. With the benefit of hindsight you would have done things differently.

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Not much better than no answer tbh.

[ ] Leave
Reiner has been very clear that you can just leave. Do so.

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I would prefer to give him something he can work with rather than just leaving it.

- Something that Mathilde would know but didn't acknowledge in her internal monologue because she's off-balance: this is not a huge deal. This will not lead to disaster unless you answer something like "I was too busy reading my newly-acquired copy of the Liber Mortis to do my job properly". Don't think of this in terms of 'if we answer wrong Mathilde goes to Azkaban', think in terms of 'what answer will be least disruptive and/or most beneficial to Mathilde's ongoing relationships within the Colleges'.

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I appreciate the clarification to get ahead of thread panic.

Good update. This post is almost hitting 2500 words so I'll stop here.

 

[Alliterate]

I'm thinking Trauma, too.

 

[pucflek]

Is this supposed to be guest of a Magister or guest of a Lord Magister? Seems like an overly fancy waiting room to provide for any visitor to a Magister.

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Considering that being a Magister already sets you on similar ground within Empire as minor nobility and that Light Order is especially noted for having wildly more disparate ratio between Apprentice:Magisters, i think it didn't need to be a typo. Magisters are probably important enough to warrant this.

 

[IronFist]

Is this supposed to be guest of a Magister or guest of a Lord Magister? Seems like an overly fancy waiting room to provide for any visitor to a Magister.

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When the guest is a lord magister, they probably open the nice rooms for them.

 

[Codex]

Considering that being a Magister already sets you on similar ground within Empire as minor nobility and that Light Order is especially noted for having wildly more disparate ratio between Apprentice:Magisters, i think it didn't need to be a typo. Magisters are probably important enough to warrant this.

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I'm not sure if people realise that there is a bit of wordiness going around with the noble thing:

11. All Magisters may expect to receive accommodation, benefits, respect, and fair treatment, as would befit any noble of Sigmar's Holy Empire, while in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire.

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While in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire. I'm not a legal expert of the Empire's laws, and I don't have a copy of the Empire's laws at hand, but maybe you can argue that all Magisters are "in the employ of the Emperor" or maybe you can't argue that. Depends on the wording of the laws, but rules lawyering is a thing.

Magisters aren't automatically granted all the privileges of a Noble.

 

[Cheap Orange Knofe]

We should totally blame the skaven

 

[Abhorsen]

That being said- I really don't think this is Starke trying to put us on the spot here, I think this is someone who's history of being an arguable triple(?), quadruple(?) agent trying to best integrate the Hedgewise has given him a lot of personal experience with the need to recast past choices in the least damaging light possible. I think he's genuinely trying to help us repaint things in the most favorable light for us.

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Starke isn't the Hedgewise guy. He's the Sigmar guy.

But honestly, I think Faith is fine here, if only because it is basically public knowledge cause of the dwarf announcement.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

My favored option. It's honest and understandable. Nobody who gets to Mathilde's position in the Colleges doesn't have their own share of traumatic experiences, and it would be utterly idiotic to attempt to use this against her.

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IRL politics would disagree, sadly. Nothing has proven more effective over time as smearing the other guy. And nothing is sacred in a smear campaign.

 

[pucflek]

I'm not sure if people realise that there is a bit of wordiness going around with the noble thing:

While in the employ of the Electors of Sigmar's Holy Empire. I'm not a legal expert of the Empire's laws, and I don't have a copy of the Empire's laws at hand, but maybe you can argue that all Magisters are "in the employ of the Emperor" or maybe you can't argue that. Depends on the wording of the laws, but rules lawyering is a thing.

Magisters aren't automatically granted all the privileges of a Noble.

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Truly, but this is on grounds of college itself. Why ever would the colleges not treat themselves and their wizard with at least as much respect as should be afforded to them by others.

 

[Codex]

Starke isn't the Hedgewise guy. He's the Sigmar guy.

But honestly, I think Faith is fine here, if only because it is basically public knowledge cause of the dwarf announcement.

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The only people that have said they know of it are Belegar, the Dwarves in general, and Roswita, who is an Elector Count and deeply involved in Sigmarite circles, who are involved in Dwarven affairs and circles because of their scriptures requiring them to. I don't think we should assume the message from the Conclave that Mathilde is a Dwarf is in any way "Public Knowledge".

 

[FriedIce]

We're a Grey Wizard. Why use a bad truth when we have an excellent lie available?

Blaming the Skaven can't be disproven because the Grey Order informs people about the Conspiracy of Silence by dead drop mental packages (all Johan can say is that we seemed like we didn't know, but Grey Wizard). The Head of the Watch at the time thought he was being brought in to fight the War Bellow so will back us up if ever asked. It fits with bringing the Gong Farmers and Rat Catchers in. We've since become the Empire's greatest expert on the Skaven as well so it fits a pattern of behaviour.

It's the perfect lie. Let's use it.

 

[Jreengus]

Starke isn't the Hedgewise guy. He's the Sigmar guy.

But honestly, I think Faith is fine here, if only because it is basically public knowledge cause of the dwarf announcement.

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The dwarf announcement was that Ranald stole a dwarven soul and put it in a human baby, assuming people actually believe it to be true that doesn't mean the child had to grow up to a Ranaldite. I doubt most people Ranald has pulled a trick on worship him.

all Johan can say is that we seemed like we didn't know, but Grey Wizard

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Didn't we trigger the package before actually meeting any skaven and end up giving him the impression we knew from the start anyway?

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

Starke isn't the Hedgewise guy. He's the Sigmar guy.

But honestly, I think Faith is fine here, if only because it is basically public knowledge cause of the dwarf announcement.

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Except he is an authority in this situation, so we are religiously obliged to not say we worship Ranald.

We can be as blatant as possible as we like, but we can't say the words.

That's the rule.

 

[Dark as Silver]

Question about the vote for people, while Reiner might be being diplomatic, he didn't say that the events where poorly handled, he said they where unorthodox so, I don't know if Trauma is actually as true as people are saying.
The conversion of the watch was a fuck up because Mathilde was in a terrible place to handle it or back down when it was clear how disastrous it was going, but it was motivated by grief or faith and I feel that is what Stark is actually asking.
Any thoughts?

 

[Codex]

Except he is an authority in this situation, so we are religiously obliged to not say we worship Ranald.

We can be as blatant as possible as we like, but we can't say the words.

That's the rule.

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I don't want to admit that Mathilde is a Ranaldite either, but I have to say it. Ranald isn't that big on rules, and what rules he does have, as loose as they are, are the following:

• One coin in ten belongs to Ranald.
• Ranald frowns upon unnecessary violence.
• Live by wits, not by your sword.
• A true devotee of Ranald uses the dagger and stiletto; only amateurs and the slow-witted need armour and long sword.
• It's better to live free and die, rather than suffer under oppression.
• There is no honour among thieves, yet trust in your brothers and sisters.

I think people overestimate how much Ranald dislikes the authorities. Ranald is against oppression, not the concept of authority itself.

 

[Jyn Ryvia]

I don't want to admit that Mathilde is a Ranaldite either, but I have to say it. Ranald isn't that big on rules, and what rules he does have, as loose as they are, are the following:

• One coin in ten belongs to Ranald.
• Ranald frowns upon unnecessary violence.
• Live by wits, not by your sword.
• A true devotee of Ranald uses the dagger and stiletto; only amateurs and the slow-witted need armour and long sword.
• It's better to live free and die, rather than suffer under oppression.
• There is no honour among thieves, yet trust in your brothers and sisters.

I think people overestimate how much Ranald dislikes the authorities. Ranald is against oppression, not the concept of authority itself.

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Oh, right ya, I keep on mixing the 1ed rules into it.

I don't know why, it's literally the only thing I do mix up 1ed with 2/4 Ed.

 

[Taut_Templar]

God, I'd almost managed to forget about this particular bit of early quest cringe. What the heck were people thinking back then?

 

[ArvisPresley]

An argument in favor of going for the Skaven excuse is that it is quite literally impossible for anyone to find out we only got clued in to the conspiracy during the march to K8P.

Johann thinks we knew about the Skaven the moment we met

He gives you a calculating look. "I could have sworn you didn't know. Bloody Grey Mages." He slings the handgun over his shoulder. "Look, the ratmen are hideously gifted at technological artifice," he says. "Much of it incorporates wyrdstone, and I intend to find out whether it's fully reliant on it or just uses it for a power boost or to blunt-force past shoddy construction. If the underlying premise of their weaponry is sound, then it can be adapted for use with the proper Winds of Magic, or ideally, for entirely non-magical gun crews."

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The person we hired to lead the Watch thought we were hiring him to craft it as an anti Skaven force

He looks around the inn nervously - it's usually crowded, but not this early, and there's nobody within earshot. He lowers his voice anyway. "You're fighting the War Below."

"The War Below," you say musingly. Overly dramatic name for fighting against vermin and smugglers, but it has a nice ring to it. "The Watch is looking for a new leader. Ideally, someone with the creativity and inside knowledge to bring it success as it expands across Stirland."

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And we responded to the Dwarf that clued us into the conspiracy with "Yea, I totes know about them"

"Thaggoraki," you repeat, half to yourself. You've heard that word before. "Beastmen?"

He opens his mouth to reply, then pauses. "While 'aye' would not be incorrect," he says thoughtfully, "It doesn't quite communicate the nature of the vermin. The beastmen that lurk in the woods of your Empire are a very different breed to those that burrow beneath the earth. They are ratmen, boundless in number; in your tongue, they are called Skaven."

The words echo unpleasantly in your head, and grow. A thought unfolds uncomfortably in your mind, and you're taken back to a day forgotten some fifteen years ago. A voice, unfamiliar to you, droning in a bored voice. "Number thirty-two. The Ratmen and the Conspiracy of Silence. If you believe you are accessing this memory in error, please contact the Grey College at your earliest convenience." Information blossoms, summoned by a name erased from history. A terrible enemy, an empire underground. Numbers, mutability, wizardry, technology, stealth, poison, disease, all the ingredients to wipe out humanity, missing only one: unity. Knowledge suppressed so that they felt secure enough to war among themselves. Emperor Mandred, whose death plunged the Empire into centuries of civil war, slain by ratman assassins. Once he was known as the Skavenslayer; now he is the Ratslayer, and given another century or two, perhaps he will be the Beastslayer.

You swallow, and taste blood. "Them," you say faintly. "I know of them."

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When in doubt, blame Skaven

 

[primemountain]

Except he is an authority in this situation, so we are religiously obliged to not say we worship Ranald.

We can be as blatant as possible as we like, but we can't say the words.

That's the rule.

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Pretty much, except that so long as we only give off deniable hints (IE the symbol of Ranald worked into regular motion, namely the cross) we're fine. We can't tell him about Ranald, but we can give him a hint that if he is worthy of it, he'll catch it. Since Ranald the Deceiver is a God of Grey Wizards anyway, he'd understand and accept it, even if he himself finds it distasteful as a Sigmarite in the Empire.

 

[Pipeman]

The only people that have said they know of it are Belegar, the Dwarves in general, and Roswita, who is an Elector Count and deeply involved in Sigmarite circles, who are involved in Dwarven affairs and circles because of their scriptures requiring them to. I don't think we should assume the message from the Conclave that Mathilde is a Dwarf is in any way "Public Knowledge".

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And even if it were, I'm not sure the fact that the Dwarves blame Ranald would automatically be part of that and, even if that were known as well, one can easily conclude that Ranald isn't being blamed because Mathilda is a devout worshipper of Ranald, but because Ranald is a literal god of thieves and the Dwarves were looking for someone to blame for the fact that a Dwarven soul was apparently stolen but reincarnated semi benevolently.

 

[Codex]

God, I'd almost managed to forget about this particular bit of early quest cringe. What the heck were people thinking back then?

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I don't think it's particularly productive to lament the decisions of the early thread literally 3 years ago. Let's just move on and deal with the consequences now instead of beating up the early thread for making a decision that didn't work out.

 

[Mopman43]

I don't care for the Skaven option.

Mathilde told Regimand about getting the info-dump, and while he's not exactly likely to have revealed that to anyone, it's still out there.

"There's a lot of things I should be doing," you retort, and with barely a flicker the spell dissolves and Regimand is looking directly at you, the book nowhere to be seen.

"I daresay they would be. Have you seen the second layer of nastiness yet?"

"Whiskers and warpstone? Oh yes. How many of those little messages are there, anyway?"

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And, more importantly in my eyes- we've already had WoB that there are no Skaven under Wurtbad, at least at that time. The Grey College keeps an eye on burrows, they'd probably be aware of that. While you can argue that preparation is good even if the threat isn't there yet, I still think it doesn't make her look great if that's her reason, given how many other problems there were.

So, remember that there's absolutely zero way for you to access this information in-character, but I overlaid the Empire with the Under-Empire and:



Note the complete lack of Under-Empire under Wurtbad.

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Or just that Wurtbad isn't that important a city (in all honesty it's more of a large town) and it's very far from the population centers of the Skaven. I know that Skaven supremacy is a potent meme but there's just some places that they don't reach because their focus is elsewhere.

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[Codex]

I don't care for the Skaven option.

Mathilde told Regimand about getting the info-dump, and while he's not exactly likely to have revealed that to anyone, it's still out there.


And, more importantly in my eyes- we've already had WoB that there are no Skaven under Wurtbad, at least at that time. The Grey College keeps an eye on burrows, they'd probably be aware of that. While you can argue that preparation is good even if the threat isn't there yet, I still think it doesn't make her look great if that's her reason, given how many other problems there were.

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Huh, that's the Under-Empire Map in Warhammer Lexicanum that Boney's using there. I was wondering on whether I should include it in my map compendium because I haven't seen it in 6th or 7th Edition Skaven and was wondering if it was even canonical/what the source was. Maybe I should include it to my compendium if Boney's using it.

 

[DragonParadox]

You know the more I think about the the more I agree that it is not worth blaming the Skaven for once, there are no or at the very least few Skaven in Wurtbad so it's not like the lie would make us look competent. I say go with Trauma (understandable) or Piety (true). I mean technically trauma is true as well, but that is not why we did it... it is why we ran away from the empire to retake a dwarf hold, much more reasonable.

 

[Shane_357]

I often think that Skaven are too often only seen serving the Under-Empire or clan or whatever, always in that narrow paradigm. You never see some hermit skaven who hides up in a hole in the hills seven days march from the nearest Under-Empire outpost eating rabbits and screaming at Morrslieb every Hexensnacht. You never see the inevitable sapient detritus such a society would create. I don't mean 'good' skaven, I just mean ones that duck-and-covered away from their bosses when shit went down and are too squirrely to go back and take the punishment that is 'surely' awaiting them.