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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Pan requires large numbers of hugs. Cython shows his intellectual chops. Belegar continues to be my favourite dwarf. All in all, an extremely satisfying update.
 
So I'm just throwing it out there.

Myrmiddia isn't the goddess of Martial Prowess and War.

At least, she wasn't initially. She started of as the goddess of civilization as outlined in her other domains. Only after she lived as a mortal and conquered Estalia, Tilea, and the Border Princes was she known as a war god after her mortal life ended.

Food for thought.
 
Tobtorp said:
I don't think we can. The only thing we have that even resembles green wind magic is our seed and the nut. And we know Jack and shit about both of these...
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We can't help her with it directly, but we should definitely make certain to be on hand for her immediately before/after she takes it. Before, for emotional support. After, so she has someone to vent to (and potentially a shoulder to cry on).
 
The3rdCorinthian said:
This reminds me of some stuff I was thinking about how lifespan and risk are really intertwined.

Dawi live longer, so by that metric, they're inherently less risky because they have more opportunities to metaphorically roll the dice than a human does (Doing something more times ups the potential for this time being the one where things go horribly wrong). Elves are pretty much the same way. So they develop very thorough and precise precautions about what not to do, no seriously, you keep doing that and it will end up killing you one of these decades.

which in turn further reinforces the concept of 'Do this thing properly, even if we have to drill it into your skull a hundred times over'.

Humans lack the time to do this, and for most the risks never actually come up anyway, so what appears to humans like 'Acceptably low chances in the sake of getting this done in a meaningful fashion' looks to everyone else like 'Trying to speedrun something through numerous insanely lucky stunts and somehow not blowing themselves up this time'.

You kinda do see why everyone else shits on humans in general - Rule of averages, to them, suggests they really should have just imploded themselves by now, but somehow they just keep rolling 6's at just the right times not to, and subsequently keep relying on what seems to be those same reckless stunts.
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Aranfan said:
And then the skaven seem to give no shits about safety precautions at all.
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Mm, that might be part of it, but it's not really the age that makes Dwarves so tetchy about tradition and doing things right, it's that they as a species have a photographic memory coupled with that kind of brain that jumps you with that time you were embarrassing at prom ten years ago, and at all other times gives them low level OCD over every single thing that they've ever fucked up and every wrong that's fucked with them. Humans can live in a house that'll 'only' last for a hundred years and never really consider that it might fall down on them, but at the same time they could also just keep it maintained and the risk would be about as low as a proper dwarf built dome, and frequently that's how touchy humans are about risk, too. Dwarves build things to last way beyond even them, it's more than just their own lifespans, it's a matter of honour.

And yeah, humans do crazy speedrun strats for building up, but they do that with shit that's a major risk even in their own lifetimes. Wizards and their firehands, engineers and (some of) their design philosophies, soldiers and (some of) them going all leeroy jenkins... their natural lifespan might mean they have to mature faster, but a lot of the time the risks they take are crazy by any standards, and they just manage to get through because they're not a collapsing race.

Elves, too, don't do what they do to minimize risk. After all, a lot of their culture centers around the idea of them all dying valiantly to be the shield of the world. Rather, they just legitimately think it's more efficient to let people train for so long to reliably get really really good at what they do, which is possible because of their long lifespans, yes, but arguably not something that stems from it, given just how rambunctious elves can be on the field. An Archmage who wanted to try using the human method of magic education wouldn't be rolling the dice more so much as they'd be crippled by one bad roll, whereas human wizards shrug and keep going along the path that said bad roll would trap them in.
 
Boney said:
"More or less. So if we don't have troubles today, we should lay in for the troubles of tomorrow. I've brought in a promising young Engineer named Okri Drakkisson of Clan Bronzebeard - Karak Norn's offshoot of Karak Drazh's Stonebeards, cousins to the Karak Eight Peaks Stonebeards."

"'Promising' and 'young' seem a bit less than what Karak Eight Peaks could have attracted," you observe sceptically.

"Aye, though I've heard good things about him. I'm hoping that through him I can bring in others from his Clan to refound the Karak Drazh Stonebeards, one more general in purpose than the modern Gyrocopter-focused Karak Eight Peaks Stonebeards. His father would be the real catch, he's said to be a genius with steam and hydraulics."
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If anyone is curious, this is a Vermintide 2 reference.

Belegar is recruiting Cousin Okri, in the hopes of getting his father, Drakki Dagsson- the Dwarf that laid down the foundation for this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvg9rHP_2-Y
 
Execute/Dumbo said:
After all, a lot of their culture centers around the idea of them all dying valiantly to be the shield of the world.
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No it does not. That is a common claim without any source. Elves has not done anything to shield the world since the Vortex and arguably that was done because deamons were on their lawn, not because any grand high minded ideals.
 
Lovely update. God it's good to talk to Belegar, I missed the guy.

Boney said:
Ellinill budded off children ass a path to power
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@Boney, this should be 'as' (...I hope)

So, let's talk about the God conversation and how Halétha might fit any of the three models:
Boney said:
A territorial child of Ranald and Shallya would originate in a conceptual subset of one or the other, or perhaps one on the cusp of both. Righteous vigilantism? Protection of the weak? Stealing from the rich, giving to the poor? The overlaps between Shallya the Merciful and Ranald the Protector make it very easy to invent possible identities for territorial children. And if they follow the example of Mathlann, it's possible that the children could have evolved beyond this conceptual nursery.
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As Mathilde points out, protection+mercy is a combination you can fit to many candidates. Halétha seems like a good fit for this model, with Fertility and protection and also general sneakiness. Note that the image Mathilde has shows one Goddess much more similar to Ranald and one more to Shallya, so we shouldn't expect any conceptual mix to go right down the middle.

Boney said:
A metaphorical child of Ranald and Shallya would represent an adoption, a God that had abandoned a previous position to take up one aligned with Ranald and Shallya. You're reminded of the pilgrimage of the followers of the Ancient Widow, and their abandonment of Chaos worship in the Great Steppes to build a bulwark against Chaos in the lands now known as Kislev - but you already know something of the relationship between the Widow and Ranald, and it is a frosty one, not one enshrined in metaphor. And that these children are ones not generally known goes against the entire concept of metaphorical familial relationships among the Gods, does it not?
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Halétha might fit this, I suppose. Say she was a Goddess of the Forest of Shadows and the Hedgefolk communities around it since before the Hedgefolk were persecuted. Then, as the boot of the state is smashed into their face repeatedly, Ranald the Protector becomes a natural ally, and as the numbers of the Hedgefolk dwindle Shallya in her mercy lends Halétha some power over fertility.

Boney said:
Thirdly, biological. Ranald and Shallya are often depicted with human forms, and according to this theory those forms would still be able to... engage in the sorts of activities that result in children. But if you discount the Dwarven examples, then you are left with only Nethu, who you know next to nothing about. You make a foray into your library, returning with the few Dwarven books on the Elves that might have mention of Him. Several hours later you're left with a very few scraps of information: Nethu is the Gatekeeper of Mirai, where the souls of those stolen or seduced away from Morai-heg toil in servitude to Ereth Khial. This is the trouble of a sample size of one: you cannot tell if this close tie to the mother is part of being a 'biological' child of a God, or a product of Ereth Khial's controlling personality that would not apply to what you would hope to be a healthier relationship between Ranald and Shallya and their own children. You do find mention that Nethu is also the God of Dark Pegasi, the bat-winged, flesh-eating flying horses of Naggarond, and this appears to be unique to Him, rather than something shared with His mother - though you do not have anywhere near enough sources to say that with any confidence.
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As Mathilde points out, this is just a big question mark. Not much I can say about this.
 
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Tasoli said:
No it does not. That is a common claim without any source. Elves has not done anything to shield the world since the Vortex and arguably that was done because deamons were on their lawn, not because any grand high minded ideals.
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In which case it's because of their culture which obsesses over their refinement and superiority to the other races and leads them to focus on intellectual and skilful superiority, you've still got dragon riders going out to show off how cool and badass they are.
 
Boney said:
Panoramia
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They make such a cute and caring couple.

being resented by the outsiders for being an insider, being resented by the traditionalists for not believing, and being resented by the modernists for my mother.
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It makes me so angry, and from both directions. I'm angry that she can't accept me believing the same thing that Da believes, and I'm angry that she doesn't see Da as a proper part of the Order."
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Well Paranoth seems to be of like mind, to some degree at least. If Pan wants to change her order for the better help is there for the taking.

Sometimes you're very glad to be part of the sensible Order.
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Yes… 'sensible'. Sure.
How is the paranoia cultivation coming along?

Cython waves its head from side to side in the draconic equivalent of a furrowed brow.
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I do so love these little touches. A face of scale and horns doesn't have the mobility for expression, so greater movements must be used.
It is obvious and sensible, but many authors would not bother with such detail.

the more distracting paraphernalia of flesh
engage in the sorts of activities that result in children.
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Being very PG today.

looking up from your book and blinking at the dragon across from you that you'd completely forgotten about.
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…it is a multi-ton living war machine made out of mana directly opposed to Mathilde's own. And yet she has grown so accustomed to it that she can forget it is in the room.

This is what happens when Curiosity and Revelation try to mix.

Belegar
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Oh I have missed Belebro.

"Edda will be stepping down as Steward in the coming months."
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so I'm going to make Francesco Caravello the new Steward when the time comes.
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A reasonable change. Eight Peaks is set up and the silk road beckons.
We should consider looking in on Francesco in a couple of turns to see how he does as a councillor.

there's rumours of a new Overtyrant among the Ogres
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Nope. We have enough plot hooks to juggle as is. The Ogres are just going to have to sort themselves out.

a promising young Engineer named Okri Drakkisson of Clan Bronzebeard
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"Aye, though I've heard good things about him. I'm hoping that through him I can bring in others from his Clan to refound the Karak Drazh Stonebeards, one more general in purpose than the modern Gyrocopter-focused Karak Eight Peaks Stonebeards. His father would be the real catch, he's said to be a genius with steam and hydraulics."
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Always good to see a Dawi king building towards the future.

"Just checking your plaits for grey hairs. You've spent so long around us Dwarves that you're turning into a longbeard."
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Dwarf infection progresses to its next stage.
 
Boney said:
Sometimes you're very glad to be part of the sensible Order.
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Lol.

Boney said:
"It depends how separable a God is from Their domain. The intuitive models for beings of flesh is that a God is a single discrete entity that lives within Its domain, but beings of spirit may not be so limited. It could be that a God expands and contracts to match the territory It exists within, thus there would be little difference between supplanting and consuming. In either case, it seems that a God can create another God by either withdrawing from enough territory for a new God to emerge, or by splitting off the part of Themselves that occupies that territory. Similar to how a dragon with a greater territory than it requires might grant some to a child, so that a possible ally would be close at hand."
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That's actually my outlook on many derivatives from DnD, like Warhammer and Pathfinder. Gods are the entire planes of their authority, and the anthropogenic avatars are just flesh-like bits they use to interact with their followers that would rather talk with something looking like them instead of a giant space butterfly squid the conceptual size of their planet.

*instinctively cringes calling Warhammer a derivation of DND*

I think it's a bit older than Dungeons, at that.
Tolkien's fallen Valar and Maiar had a distinctive ability to influence the part of the Arda they claimed as their own, with Sauron and Saruman doing the lesser variant of what Morgoth did way back then. Since they were spirits who assumed human and elven forms, it somehow makes sense to me that their true essence could seep out into mile upon miles of innocent acreage around their citadel of evil.

aww, the last part was adorable. The triumphant return of Mathilde the Mom-Friend, who manages to mom everyone, including people twice older than her.
 
Angelform said:
Nope. We have enough plot hooks to juggle as is. The Ogres are just going to have to sort themselves out.
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It should be a big deal! Because canonically the Overtyrant right now should be Gresus Goldtooth and if he's dead/deposed then some rando we don't know about is leading the ogres around.
…
With the Warhammer 3 trailer out I took a dive into ogre lore.
 
LiamOfOrmonde said:
It should be a big deal! Because canonically the Overtyrant right now should be Gresus Goldtooth and if he's dead/deposed then some rando we don't know about is leading the ogres around.
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This is probably about Greasus.

When the quest started, Greasus wasn't Overtyrant yet, given he did it in 2482 IC, so there's no reason why he would have become Overtyrant at the same time.

This could be him becoming Overtyrant now, or it could be something else.
 
Ah these chapters are a balm on a magisters soul, and it teach us readers, that no matter how busy we are, we do ourself service to always makes time for our lover, debate pal and bro.
 
Chapter dropped much faster than I expected. And just as I wanted to start being productive...

Boney said:
"She's a staunch traditionalist, but more self-aware about it than most. If there is wheat in that chaff, she should be able to help you find it. If not, she might be able to string together enough of it to sound convincing."
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Exactly what I was speculating and hoping for at the same time. Nice.
Boney said:
"But enough of all that business. I have a powerful desire for Halfling food and Dwarven ale. Any recommendations?"
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Huh. This could have been a social option. Not that I think it would have won.
Boney said:
She doesn't think men have a place in the Order
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I didn't know the Druids were a women exclusive organization before Teclis. Or is that just Panoramia's ancestors' Druid Circle specifically? Or even some pseudo-old bull like many revival groups like to make out or interpret into the past due to a lack of actually preserved history?
Boney said:
You don't know what to say about that, so you don't say anything. You just put your arm around her and pull her to your side, and she exhales and rests her head on your shoulder. Sometimes you're very glad to be part of the sensible Order.
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Oh yeah. Remember Mathilde's acceptance ceremony after all the tests? Algard bumps into her in a corridor, asks her a bunch of unrelated questions that interest him, remembers he's supposed to promote her, tells her that usually there's a staff that goes along the promotion but that those have run out and then softly admonishes her for having expected something grander.
Boney said:
You sigh in frustration,
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Me too, Mathilde. Me too. Just imagining how we could have blown Cython's mind...
Boney said:
In practice, Dwarven children are rare enough that everyone will pretend not to notice a heavily pregnant bride, and will swear on their beard that the child born a month later must be extremely premature and declare it a miracle from Valaya that it was born in perfect health despite that.
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Knowing the Dawi, the vast majority will comply to this, but they will be split into at least three categories: Those that manage to actively delude themselves by trusting the words of the Elders who play along and through religious fervor in Valaya. Those that know the truth and whose quality of life will be permanently lowered by a bit because they will remember their shameful lying forever. And Radicals of varying flavors that resent the institution that makes children born out of wedlock shameful and themselves for not tearing it down in the face of underpopulation, pushing them further into radicality.
Boney said:
and he has the knowledge and he's proven himself trustworthy.
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And he's owned by the EIC...
Boney said:
He frowns at you. "Didn't you step down from giving advice?"

"I stepped down from being paid for giving advice. You're still getting it, whether you want it or not." He gives you a scrutinizing look. "What?"

"Just checking your plaits for grey hairs. You've spent so long around us Dwarves that you're turning into a longbeard."

"Have you forgotten you're more than twice my age?"

"Aye, I often do."

You pat him companionably on the shoulder, and the two of you continue your walk through the construction site.
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Aww. I love 'em.
 
Rafin said:
I didn't know the Druids were a women exclusive organization before Teclis. Or is that just Panoramia's ancestors' Druid Circle specifically? Or even some pseudo-old bull like many revival groups like to make out or interpret into the past due to a lack of actually preserved history?
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They were very decentralized before Teclis. Many branches were matriarchal, a few were outright women-only.
 
Boney said:
Her hand squeezes yours. "I guess I had fooled myself into thinking that I could just put it off forever. The worst part is, if I had just done it as soon as possible, Ma would have still been just a Magister. But now she's a Lady Magister, so she'll be part of the Sonnstill gathering, who adjudicate the Magister tests. So half the High Druids will be going easy on me because of her, and the other half will be twice as hard because of her, and she'll be damn sure to use the old oaths and the full ceremonies, and no part of any of it would be about me. It would all be about her."
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Oof... That's a real difficult shadow to come out of. She's always going to be accused of being subject to nepotism within her own college, until she reaches Lord Magister and overshadows her mother.
Boney said:
Cython looks up from its own book, tilting its head in mild confusion. "Why apologize? You stopped talking because you had gathered so many questions, you had not choice but to pursue them. I know of very few better ways for a conversation to end."
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Cython is adorable. He knows us so well... or is that that he knows our Wind so well and how it affects us?
Boney said:
"Of a wife? Not so much. But of having children I could fail... that scares me more than anything. There's been times over the years where I've drawn great comfort that if I failed, I've failed no worse than a great many of my ancestors. But the thought of having children to pass the crown to, children I might fail to pass the crown to..." He shakes his head. "The price of climbing higher, it seems, is that it gives you further to fall."
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... I suppose Belegar's looking to his own father there, who took the Slayer after losing out the opportunity to become the High King and starting the VAU conquest early.
Edit: I'm not certain what bothers him the most, that his father missed out on the throne, that he took the "easy" way out with turning Slayer, or that he effectively gave up on the VAU conquest.
Boney said:
"Just checking your plaits for grey hairs. You've spent so long around us Dwarves that you're turning into a longbeard."

"Have you forgotten you're more than twice my age?"

"Aye, I often do."
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Belegar is a true friend.
 
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