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deeper into the reported rumorus it becomes clear
rumours

[X] No
[X] Perpetual Apprentice Culloch


[X] Middenland, to see how the Ulricans are going with their new Eonir coreligionists.

[X] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
 
It would be nice if someone were to agree to help you for the common good of the Old World, rather than for the opportunity to get you to do something for them.
And yet, I suspect Mathilde might do something very similar if put in a similar situation. Even (or perhaps even especially) if it was something she wanted to do or see done anyway, why pass up an opportunity to get something else to further your goals from a high-ranking member of another order out of it? It's free real estate favors! That'd be a very Mathilde reaction, IMO.

Though, it's also very in-character for her internal monologue to decline to consider that.😁
Honestly, if the Magister Patriarch of the Jade is nearly certain his Order knows nothing interesting about the subject, I'm inclined to believe him.
If this were a topic of no more than academic interest to him, then so would I. But this is clearly tied into an internal conflict over the Jade Order's identity, which means that ideology and politics play into it, and he's on the opposite side of the people who still believe in the value of the Old Faith. Never underestimate the ability of the most intelligent and educated people to rationalize seeing absolutely no value in the positions of their opponents.

[X] Yes
[X] Magister Tochter Grunfeld
[X] Egrimm, to celebrate his imminent promotion and gauge his reaction to it.
[X] Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Project.
[X] Cython, to talk obliquely of what it means for a God to have offspring.
[X] Middenland, to see how the Ulricans are going with their new Eonir coreligionists.
[X] Kasmir, to see how partnership with Sylvania's native faith has been going.
 
[X] Yes

[X] Magister Tochter Grunfeld
An ambitious pioneer in Jade rituals who has spent recent years engaged in the Sylvanian campaign, experimenting with ways to purify the soil. She knows more than any other about the rituals that descended from Druidic rites.

[X] Egrimm, to celebrate his imminent promotion and gauge his reaction to it.
[X] Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Project.


[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
 
[X] No

I believe the Magister Patriarch of their Order about what they know and don't.

Besides even if he isn't right and they possess some knowledge about the Waystones it's probably better for us to spend the favor we're doing to him to convince another group like the Ice Witches or Damsels who definitively have knowledge about the Waystones instead of a "maybe they've knowledge".
 
@Boney question.
On a scale from 1 to 10 (one being kragg grumbling heavily until all the elfs stop being so... Elven and 10 being him smashing the Grey lords heads in while throwing torches at anything even remotely wooden.) what does Mathilde think kraggs reaction would be upon being asked to help with the waystone project?
 
[x] Yes
[x] Egrimm, to celebrate his imminent promotion and gauge his reaction to it.
[x] Cython, to talk obliquely of what it means for a God to have offspring.
[x] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
[x] Roswita, to get a sense for who will control Sylvania after you turned down the position.
[x] Panoramia, to talk about how well her project in the Eastern Valley seems to be going.
 
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And yet, I suspect Mathilde might do something very similar if put in a similar situation. Even (or perhaps even especially) if it was something she wanted to do or see done anyway, why pass up an opportunity to get something else to further your goals from a high-ranking member of another order out of it? It's free real estate favors! That'd be a very Mathilde reaction, IMO.

I'm pretty sure that if someone else made a Waystone Project and we had reason to believe it had a shot at working we would do at least some favors pro bono for them. Then again Mira was willing to do a little pro bono as well, give Horstman magister level access to the secrets we sought so as much as we might consider her a political creature she was actually more altruistic than either Thorek or Paranoth.

Isn't that a trip to consider. :V
 
After he got the lay of the land and set up his quarters and workshop, he left. He'll be back when the Project begins.

Oh no. I was hoping to hear elvish scandalized gossip about a dwarf runelord bullying the elf smiths and other random elves he encounters.

Guess we should have recruited Kragg instead of Thorek for that.
 
[X] Yes
An excuse for adventure! Yay!
It helps to sustain the illusion that humans know anything about Waystones, which I think is a good thing. Having more actual knowledge we don't have to beg the elves and dwarves for is also nice.

[X] Magister Tochter Grunfeld
[X] Perpetual Apprentice Culloch
I'm not sure which of these two wizards would be the best.
While the old rituals didn't seem to do much, the Jade College apparently managed to base some of their working rituals on them anyway. Also, unlike Panoramia, I am interested in the whole Earth Mother business.
On the other hand, having access to all of the Waystone rituals is also very good for the project.

[X] Panoramia, to talk about how well her project in the Eastern Valley seems to be going.
[X] Cython, to talk obliquely of what it means for a God to have offspring.
Cython and gods, what's not to like?
[X] Middenland, to see how the Ulricans are going with their new Eonir coreligionists.
I'm interested in how this works.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
They'd better be making the most of this!
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
Just want to cross this of the list, to be honest.
[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
It's been a while, and I like the fief. I know we don't have to, but I feel like we should visit every few years.
 
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[X] Cython, to talk obliquely of what it means for a God to have offspring.
[X] Belegar, to discuss who has been made Loremaster after you.
 
[x] Yes
[x] Magister Tochter Grunfeld
[x] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[x] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[x] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[x] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
 
I'm pretty sure that if someone else made a Waystone Project and we had reason to believe it had a shot at working we would do at least some favors pro bono for them.
You could be right in that specific instance of perfect overlap with something Mathilde wanted to happen anyway (which, to be fair, is a scenario I specifically spoke to so that's fair game), but even then I think this might be shaped a bit by the fact that the thread mechanics formalize that doing deeds "pro bono" consistently pays off in Favors and/or Great Deeds, and decisions like that get made by the thread. I think knowing that you will very likely be allowed to collect your favors after the fact may signify when considering whether your deeds can be considered altruistic.

There's also the matter that we're not actually asking for "some favors," we're asking for an indefinite commitment to somebody else's project from either them personally or from one of their people. If what someone was asking for was for Mathilde to take on another ongoing commitment of open-ended duration (I can already hear screaming about AP hell) or to, say, loan them Johann indefinitely are you sure the answer would be the same? What about if it was for something she might be interested in but that wasn't actually one of her own priority interests? If a Damsel showed up asking for us to send them Johann to help with their Chaos Orc problem until such time as they felt that project was handled, do you think we'd send him off without asking for anything in return just because Chaos Orcs are a problem and should be dealt with by somebody?
 
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"What's this massive pile of paperwork about?"

"Lady Magister Weber wants to found a library in Karak Eight Peaks."

"Okay. And what's that got to do with this massive pile of paper?"

"We need to ensure that the prospective library will be a safe place to keep the books."

"In Karak Eight Peaks."

"Yes."

"You need all this paperwork to find out whether a library will be safe in a Dwarfhold."

"Yes."

"Civilization is so dumb."

*signs paper, gives paper to bird*
Who even talks to him about this stuff? A non-magical secretary? Because any colleague would just say "I know, right?"
Here it is again. The Socials vote. At least this time I have a fairly solid idea as to what 4 I will vote on.
It's five this time. Has it always been five?
No, in this case I think it's fair.
Paranoth has been Patriarch for decades (as far as I can tell) and should actually know his order inside and out. If this were any fresh and arrogant Magister or even Lord Magister I'd give the druidic remnants the benefit of the doubt, but we are talking to the ultimate authority on the Jade Order, so I'll take him by his word.
He kind of isn't around much though.
So you think that Alric is the premier authority on the Light Order and we should have gone to him?
Honestly, I think that Alric is more of an authority on his own Order's knowledge than Paranoth is. Paranoth has better things to do than juggling internal secrets and politics.
And as a highly-ranked representative of a foreign Empire the person that Mathilde would be trying to play on the ego of would be literally Settra, and poking Settra in the ego would be right up there with touching the mummy gold on things you probably shouldn't do.
Nehekhara's hierarchy is tight-knit enough that going to a lesser Tomb King would cause problems? It's not as if anyone there knows who she is.
He also was Magister Patriarch (the highest authority of his College) for decades, and a LM before that. I trust him to be up to date with his Order's knowledge. And he wasn't always an old man.
Didn't he also have a single stint as Supreme Patriarch?
I think this might be the case. A Jade is probably concerned less about geographical borders and more about metaphorical ones.
More importantly, ecological ones. The river might not be thick enough to prevent wide sweeping cross-pollination.
Stirlanders like Mathilde are an exception to that trend, as Stirlanders have a cultural obsession with lineage.
Oh, that's a Stirlander thing? Cool!
Is it from somewhere in canon or did it become Quest canon back when Mathilde rolled well with that one headsman near Wurtbad?
In any case, the attention to detail you have is and remains amazing.
Because you trust yourself more than you do someone you only know by reputation from another college. I mean look at it this way, if our positions were reversed, what would we choose to delegate towards and up and coming Jade Magister?
Eh. Paranoth prefers following his own projects and Mathilde is widely known to be an obsessive overachiever among LM circles. Just look at her CF income. That's something that most Magisters have knowledge of. As is what she spends it on, at least in part.
Is that something we can do? The question is not 'what actions would we trust a Jade with', it is 'which of our actions would we delegate to a Jade Magister we know only by reputation?'
Of course we can. It's called spending CF. We just prefer spending it on magical doodads more than on this.
And the tasks of a Magister Patriarch are judged (by themselves) to be so important as to deserve the eye of someone who has only 6 peers across the whole of the Empire. That is why i think that of those tasks we would be handed the one he considers least important.
I don't think that the MP/LM divide is qualitatively similar to the LM/M divide. There is technically no limit to how many LMs a College can have. The bar is just damn high and the numbers might also be kept low on purpose for prestige reasons. But there can only ever be a single MP per College, even if there are other LMs that are peers or even surpass their LM in most metrics. The Gold MP comes to mind, who might well not be the strongest in his Order in magical ability, knowledge or fighting skill.
The differences in ability between Patriarchs and lord Magisters seems much less clean cut then between Magisters and lord Magisters. Just about every Magister wants to be a lord Magister or at least would not turn it down. Plenty of lord Magister don't want to become Patriarchs or could become one if they actually wanted to.
We had two whole omakes about that.
Panoramia doesn't really talk about her parents much, and when she does it's as Ma and Da. But there's only so many Lady Magisters in the Jade Order, and it seems very unlikely there'd be another Perpetual who's married to one.
Wait, Panoramia's mom is a Lady Magister? I thought she was just a regular Magister. And that Magisters married to Perpetuals shouldn't be all that rare in the Jade Order.
Yeah, that's what made Mathilde so giddy. Her first impression was that it was a smoking gun for embarrasing Alric, since the Unfahiger name is downright infamous in the Empire. Technically there's nothing wrong with what he's doing, but as you said, we'd have to go down the census to even try to narrow down how many people have a grudge against them.
There must be more. Because the eternal gratitude of that particular noble house doesn't seem like a perfect fit to assure his position as Light Patriarch.
Depends too much on what's actually going on to say for sure.
That's already answer enough to make me interested.
All that's known for sure is that Ostermark's military is mobilizing, the rest is a huge amount of wild and often contradictory rumours.
That's the part I wanted to know. The trouble being of the type that causes military mobilization is already new information.
Elrisse is Mathilde's peer. Hatalath very much isn't.
I didn't know that was a prerequisite to hang out. So he's only gonna try and get to know Thorek for now?
It doesn't matter. If you're Magic 1 you can only ever roll 1d10. It is literally impossible to miscast on 1d10 because you can never roll a double, triple or quadruple. However, every time you roll a 1 you have to make a willpower test or take an Insanity Point, so there's still a downside even if you never miscast.

No miscast, no Arcane Mark. It is theoretically possible for a Perpetual to have a Magic score higher than 1, as demonstrated with that one Nordlander Grey Perpetual who suffered an absurd series of miscasts because her power outstripped her control, but most perpetuals are perpetuals because they lack the power not because they have too much power. She's a special case because she advanced to Journeywoman and then went back to perpetual. Most perpetuals never make it out of Apprentice.
You sure that that isn't just a game convention? We've met a Perpetual that has had plenty of miscasts. Hell, Mathilde had a miscast as an apprentice.
In any case, the idea that magic in universe is neatly separated into integers is ludicrous.
 
You know if it turns out all the druidic lore is bunk at least Panoramia will finally be able tow write the paper she has wanted to ever since she got pissed off and ran out on the Jade Order to make her own place:

Why the Great Mother is Bullshit and you should just stop talking about it, coauthored Thorek Irowbrow and the Grey Lords of Laurelorn. :V
 
Behold the might of the legendary hero Captain Indecisive!

[x] Yes
[x] Magister Tochter Grunfeld
[x] Perpetual Apprentice Culloch
[x] Egrimm, to celebrate his imminent promotion and gauge his reaction to it.
[x] Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Project.
[x] Belegar, to discuss who has been made Loremaster after you.
[x] Panoramia, to talk about how well her project in the Eastern Valley seems to be going.
[x] Middenland, to see how the Ulricans are going with their new Eonir coreligionists.
[x] Roswita, to get a sense for who will control Sylvania after you turned down the position.
[x] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
 
It's five this time. Has it always been five?
The raw number is six, one social action per regular AP. When we had Wizard Club, that ate a slot, so five. Then we added externally-initiated social actions and dropped to four. When we began the Waystone Project we dropped Wizard Club, so back up to five.
Wait, Panoramia's mom is a Lady Magister? I thought she was just a regular Magister. And that Magisters married to Perpetuals shouldn't be all that rare in the Jade Order.
Boney addressed this:
She was a regular Magister nine years ago.
Apropos of nothing:
[X] Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Proje
Both of you have typos in your vote that results in them not being tallied with the rest of that category:
Cython, to talk obliquely of what it means for a God to have offspring.
Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Project.
 
I am torn. The Jades might have nothing. They might have something. But no matter what, they need help with something.
The Ice Witches definitely have something. Kislev shares the problem troubling Ostermark. The Tzar 300% hopes that this Waystone stuff takes off. But the Ice Witches haven't approached us about the project, and there is no guarantee they will.
 
If we bring the Ice Witches the head of... whatever it is that's getting people spooked in the Forest of Shadows, they might not even ask us a price for their aid—that would be twice we've proven ourselves to them.
 
[X] Yes

Other than the many reasons already mentioned there's also the slightly metagamey one that Tochter Grunfeld became a Matriarch later in her life and I don't think that Boney would set her up in a way that has her believe in marginal fringe stuff that would ruin any chances to become MM. At the very least it makes the argument that the current Patriarch knows best weaker.

[X] Magister Tochter Grunfeld

I thought the Perpetual might be interesting, but he is the foremost secular expert. I.e. he doesn't himself believe in it. And he has no first hand experience either.
If needed, nothing precludes Magister Grunfeld from asking him about additional historical trivia once she starts doing research for us. It's the same argument as to how Elrisse can find out anything Stephen knows, is it not?
Except I guess in the case where Grunfeld specifically doesn't want to ask Culloch because she doesn't take him seriously. Because that's something that true believers often feel towards people studying the history of their faith from an outside and secular perspective.

Normally I would go with the secular scientist over the practitioner, but we already chose Faith just this turn, so it somehow feels natural to continue to do so.

Favorites:
[X] Egrimm, to celebrate his imminent promotion and gauge his reaction to it.
[X] Elrisse, to get to know the most recent contributor to the Project.
[X] Belegar, to discuss who has been made Loremaster after you.

Approval to keep relevant:
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
You know if it turns out all the druidic lore is bunk at least Panoramia will finally be able tow write the paper she has wanted to ever since she got pissed off and ran out on the Jade Order to make her own place:

Why the Great Mother is Bullshit and you should just stop talking about it, coauthored Thorek Irowbrow and the Grey Lords of Laurelorn. :V
If that secular expert Perpetual is actually her father then she might have run away for a different reason. Except if those fights were literally dinner table fights for her.
Boney addressed this:
That... doesn't really answer the question? Except in a wait and see way I guess.

@Boney if Culloch doesn't win, can we still find out what Panoramia's parents are called afterwards. I mean finding her and going "what were your parents called anyway" seems to make sense, no? As would be asking her her opinion on Tochter Grunfeld, should she win.
 
Hmmm, @Boney we got several choices for the lights but only one for the jades. Is that because we know the lights better or do the jades just don't like this topic very much? Also could we try to get maybe the perpetual through other means? Hiring him? Having Panoramia ask (if it really her dad) if he wants to help out?
 
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To make an analogy that might make it clearer why I'm not necessarily going to just take Paranoth's word on the validity of Druidic knowledge: if, say, the President (or Prime Minister, or whatever) of a country said that the opposing party's political beliefs had no validity and wouldn't work, would you just take them at their word without knowing anything about the matter yourself, just because the leader of the country should know about the country's government and how it works?

Even if this hypothetical President or whatever was somebody highly-regarded for their knowledge in general, I'd still suggest it's worth finding out for yourself in that scenario. Because motivated reasoning is a phenomenon that applies to everyone, including the intelligent and knowledgeable. IIRC, there's actually evidence out there that more intelligent people can be better at rationalizing away things.
 
I would like to point out that we used the Gambler on the Jade Recruiting action, and how it's definitely just a coincidence that the action they want from us involves going to the border between Kislev and Ostermark, fairly close to where one might expect to find the Ostermark Hedgewise and the Ice Witches.
 
I would like to point out that we used the Gambler on the Jade Recruiting action, and how it's definitely just a coincidence that the action they want from us involves going to the border between Kislev and Ostermark, fairly close to where one might expect to find the Ostermark Hedgewise and the Ice Witches.

I am pretty sure Ranald has no power over the decisions of the Patriarch of the Grey Order, he does not work like that. he's not Tzeench. Most likely the coin made it so that we would actually get the Patiarch and not an underling so would have more options to choose from in terms to who we can hire.
 
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