Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
A little bit of both, but mostly it's just the lack of stupid carrying things. Like, to go with your example of Evil Hogwarts, Alkharad didn't make the it very obvious where he was hiding out, and Mathilde didn't get in because there were convenient weak points that any idiot could use. She was just that good to bypass his entirely reasonable security, and he was fully able and willing to put her down hard and fast when the fight actually happened. None of that "I'm going to lock you up with a dumb guard who can be tricked or with keys in obvious sight, or turn my back while I monologue dramatically." And when she won it was not through luck or, again, his idiocy, but because she had a completely unpredictable defence earned and chosen for situations exactly like that.

I mean, you could maybe make the old Voldemort argument of "why didn't he just kill her instead of casting a spell", except his goal wasn't to kill her.

There are several examples of fiction when the characters (heroes and villains alike) are smart or competent. I also know of some where the characters are complete idiots, but not in ways that exist to trope the plot forward. It is not solely quests that have competent characters.
 
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. Treat all magic users as chaos meant that all magic users would rather logically attack you and run away. Similarly, if the Empire had a policy to kill all elves on sight, they would have an alarming amount of angry elves trying to tear down the Empire.
Yes, but the elves stay in their territory and don't go marauding around the country side (excepting the dark elves) the beastmen will happily go out of their forests and start slaughtering the villagers.
Tzeench always sends infiltrators, still it makes sense not to drive the innocent towards Chaos. What the Empire (and the Old World broadly) does to mutants is what the Empire used to do to wizards (which are technically warp touched mutants as well) and so the solution should be similar as well. the trouble is there is no real incentive to legalize mutation because it brings no immediate benefit to the state to do so and goes against the doctrine of every single god bar Shaylla.
OK but again, how do you differentiate between the "good" beastmen and "bad" ones. I understand that for magic users it's pretty much a "join or die" thing but they also don't normally start out chaos touched. A beastmen either gets born from a normal mother and then either gets killed or set out into the Forrest or its born to actual beastmen. And you can't really use the gods to differentiate because they are as likely to burn both types equally. So how do you determine "yes, this one we can let in to check and this one will eat Peter's face."
 
Last edited:
OK but again, how do you differentiate between the "good" beastmen and "bad" ones. I understand that for magic users it's pretty much a "join or die" thing but they also normally start out chaos touched. A beastmen either gets born from a normal mother and then either gets killed or set out into the Forrest or its born to actual beastmen. And you can't really use the gods to differentiate because they are as likely to burn both types equally. So how do you determine "yes, this one we can let in to check and this one will eat Peter's face."

The same way you differentiate between all other forms of life, you watch them and assess their behavior. It's not like perfectly human looking cultists can't eat your face. That's the real problem, not the mutant, the cultist, many of whom have mutations, but that is not what makes them aligned with chaos.
 
The same way you differentiate between all other forms of life, you watch them and assess their behavior. It's not like perfectly human looking cultists can't eat your face. That's the real problem, not the mutant, the cultist, many of whom have mutations, but that is not what makes them aligned with chaos.
OK, where do you watch them? Or do you only accept normal born beastmen and let the other ones rot? Because the empire can't even go into the drakwald without loosing men so checking those is almost impossible.
 
OK, where do you watch them? Or do you only accept normal born beastmen and let the other ones rot? Because the empire can't even go into the drakwald without loosing men so checking those is almost impossible.

Well you cannot reasonably accept the hordes of horned chaos marauders in the forest, because you know... endemic Chaos worship. The best the Empire can hope to do is not kill mutants born among them on sight and should a band of defectors come out of the woods extend some small measure of trust, as much as one did a band of Norscans claiming the same, like Oswald's ancestors.
 
Yes, but the elves stay in their territory and don't go marauding around the country side (excepting the dark elves) the beastmen will happily go out of their forests and start slaughtering the villagers.
Perhaps the lack of elves marauding about killing humans is related to the Empire's lack of a 'Kill all Elves on sight' policy.
 
Last edited:
Yes, but the elves stay in their territory and don't go marauding around the country side (excepting the dark elves) the beastmen will happily go out of their forests and start slaughtering the villagers.

OK but again, how do you differentiate between the "good" beastmen and "bad" ones. I understand that for magic users it's pretty much a "join or die" thing but they also don't normally start out chaos touched. A beastmen either gets born from a normal mother and then either gets killed or set out into the Forrest or its born to actual beastmen. And you can't really use the gods to differentiate because they are as likely to burn both types equally. So how do you determine "yes, this one we can let in to check and this one will eat Peter's face."
And humans do not enter into elven territories with armies as a policy, and they do not keep murdering every elf they see, nor do humans turn into elves all over the empire just to be instantly given a choice of "run away and join the marauding hordes or get murdered by your neighbours".
Again, chicken and egg.
Any justification empire can give to their treatment of beastmen, beastmen can turn back and use as justification for their actions towards the empire.
 
The trouble is there is no real incentive to legalize mutation because it brings no immediate benefit to the state to do so and goes against the doctrine of every single god bar Shaylla.

This is fascinating because it suggests most of the gods have a grudge against beastmen that is separate to their war on chaos, at least partially. Makes me wonder if beastmen were around before the polar gates collapsed, while the gods were incubating? In which case it probably suited the human gods to conflate then with chaos when it happened, and chaos to grab a whole bunch of useful pawns.

The crux of this would be the question of whether beastmen had their own gods before chaos, and what happened to then since.

It is the sort of answer we can get with our relationship with Ranald now though...
 
The crux of this would be the question of whether beastmen had their own gods before chaos, and what happened to then since.

It is the sort of answer we can get with our relationship with Ranald now though...
I don't see Ranald going along with "lets supress this entire group of people", getting info on that situation should be doable.
 
One nice thing about the quest format is that it allows things to progress that most people would call out if it was in traditional prose.

Like, everything turning up our way in the final conquest of K8P, or Eike turning out to have the talent to be a wizard. It'd be contrived if it was planned, but with this, well, that's how the dice went.
I think that somewhere in Apocrypha or Media there's a post where someone faux complains to GW about what a massive Mary Sue Mathilde would be if she had been the product of deliberate, premeditated writing instead of the quest format.
 
I think that somewhere in Apocrypha or Media there's a post where someone faux complains to GW about what a massive Mary Sue Mathilde would be if she had been the product of deliberate, premeditated writing instead of the quest format.
Really? I don't remember seeing that post.
 
Another good example of this is the death of Gotrek. A lot of people don't like the way this came across, and I think a big part of that is that it lacked all the signposting that people have come to expect from character death. if I was writing prose and had decided to kill off Gotrek in advance I could have emphasized the rough terrain and built tension around how the Expedition was approaching the worst of it and had Gotrek show Mathilde a picture of his family and talk about how he's three weeks from retirement or whatever.

A tool you can use in such situations is from RPG called Dark Fate Flaw. I have seen it used in TT games (WoD mostly) where a chracter gets a bad roll and should die but GM would allow them to take that flaw instead which means their death is delayed untill right time but is certain to happen before the end of the current adventure.

It is usefull way to keep a character around if you want to and I don't think thread would mind.
 
Really? I don't remember seeing that post.

Found it:

It all depends which army book you appear in, and how much the writer of the day likes you. The Haupt-Andersens appeared in a Vampire splat book, and got repeatedly stomped in a side bar for the vampire thrall model. In that book, they run a conspiracy that goes to the highest echelons of power, and can snare even Grey Wizards.

Of course, it mustn't have worked well enough in drumming up sales, or a new guy in charge really hated vampires, because they decided to stomp them right to hell in the next splat. There, you have a journeyman wizard repeatedly beat the vampires in their shadow games on her lonesome, where previously the whole Grey Order was basically helpless. Then super wizard and the new Elector Count, a Witch Hunter (notice anything with that?) and descendant of Frederik van Hal (aka the guy who fucked up Sylvania in the first place) team up and tear down Castle Drakenhof. Most of the fanbase expects them to just flat out drop Vampires as a main line army, because where do you go from there?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way. The next book, a dwarfen splat for the new K8P subfaction, mentions the ECs daughter proceeded to stomp on the vampires some more, since they apparently wanted to make their position on vampire fans clear.

Because I'm already ranting, do you know why we know this, since it's from a dwaf book, but involves no dwarfs? Because super wizard (now a magister) is one of their lords (yes, one of three lords in a dwarf army book is a wizard. Surely that's completely sane and not at all lore breaking), and it's mentioned how she likes to show up for some vampire dunking now and then. In between casually conquering Karak-bloody-Eight-Peaks (and it is casually, since they make it a point to mention how quick and bloodless the whole thing goes down, especially the final battle she commands. Because that makes sense, but then they did the same for Drakenhof), building magical superweapons (yes, in a dwarfhold), and destroying million+ Waaghs with magical superweapons. You can't make that shit up (unless your GW, I guess).

I haven't even mentioned all of it. She's also super rich and best friends with the Empress (a former Haupt-Andersen, just to really drive the point home, and then that little extra bit further). That isn't the end of it either (bloody pseudo runefangs), but I don't want to be sued for reprinting copyrighted material.

At this point, the only way we'll get a vampire army book is if they decide she's a secret mega necromancer for some reason that would surely make total sense. No, I'm not bitter about my favorite army getting kicked to the curb in the lore. Incidentally, anyone want to buy some models?

Well, Elfs are slated for the next book, so hopefully we'll get a reprieve there. I'd say they can't shoehorn Ms Perfect into those when she's palling around with dwarfs, but that would feel too much like tempting fate.
It was pretty deep in the Media tab as "Legitimate Complaints about GW's Writing."

And when I say pretty deep, I mean "it's the threadmark right before the 5000 pages celebratory art" deep. By Ranald, that's literally over half the thread ago.
 
So I guess I made a statblock for Kragg the Grim. I did not take a look at his canonical statblock from older editions, I just looked at his kit in his wiki page and copy pasted the descriptions, but I made my own statline for him using my knowledge of 8th Edition as inspiration. It's actually incredibly funny reading the description of his magic items. They're literally just called "Kragg's Hammer", "Kragg's Armor" and "Runestaff". Creative names don't seem to be Kragg's forte.
MWSBSSTWIALd
3644533210
Troop Type: Infantry (Special Character). If Kragg is upgraded with an Anvil of Doom he counts as a War Machine and follows all the rules for the Anvil of Doom.

Special Rules: Armor Piercing, Magic Resistance (3), Relentless (Can march within 8" of an enemy), Resolute (+1 Strength on the turn of a charge), Shieldwall (+1 to parry saves against charges), Rune Lore (can channel dispel dice), Unbreakable (Immune to Psychology, always passes Break Tests, can't join units that aren't Unbreakable)

Forgefire: All friendly units joined by Kragg the Grim count as having the Armor Piercing special rule as long as he is part of that unit.

Aura of Negation: Kragg the Grim is the most powerful living Runelord in the Karaz Ankor, and his ability to shut down enemy spellcasting is unmatched. Kragg the Grim automatically succeeds at channeling Dispel dice. Kragg the Grim counts as a Level 4 Wizard for the purposes of dispels (adds +4 to dispels, this doesn't stack with the Dwarf Army's innate +2 to dispels).

In addition, no enemy spellcaster within 6" of Kragg can cast spells, and no Bound Spells from enemy models may be cast within that range, whether it is innate or from an item. If an enemy is further than 6" from Kragg, they can cast the spell and target Kragg, but Kragg also confers his Magic Resistance to all Friendly Units within 6" of him.

Unbelievably Old Grumbler: Kragg the Grim is the oldest living Dwarf in the Karaz Ankor, and that means a lot to Dwarfs. Kragg the Grim may not be the army general unless he is the only character model in the army. All friendly dwarf units within 12" of Kragg may reroll failed panic tests. In addition, while Kragg is Unbreakable, he can still join units of Longbeards and Hammerers, and he conveys the Unbreakable special rule to them as long as he is part of that unit.

Disapproval: Kragg the Grim disapproves of everything, as befitting a Dwarf of his age. Kragg the Grim adds +1 to the Ancestral Grudge roll at battle start, and regardless of the result, counts as having Eternal Hatred (rerolls failed to hit rolls against all enemies in every turn of Close Combat).

Magic Items:

Kragg's Hammer: Kragg's Hammer bears Kragg's Master Rune. This will be the Old Runesmith's greatest legacy to the Dwarf realms when he releases it, if he ever does. Kragg devised his rune to aid him when forging. It heats up the hammer till it glows red hot and then transfers the heat to whatever it hits. It also drives the hammer forward with crushing force. The hammer is so hot that any enemies affected by fire are affected by the hammer as if it were actually burning. All hits from Kragg's Hammer count as S10 and have the Flaming Attacks special rule. In addition, if Kragg's Hammer wounds a model with the Chariot, War Machine or Monster troop type, or deals damage to a Building or similar structure, then Kragg deals Multiple Wounds (D3) instead of just one wound.

Kragg's Armor: Kragg's armour is forged from heavy gromril. Over the years the Runelord has laboured long and hard on it, turning each separate component into a lovingly crafted work of art. Kragg's Armor gives him a 2+ armor save. While Kragg's Armor is active, all Killing Blows, Heroic Killing Blows and Multiple Wound attacks are treated as a single Wound, regardless of the source. Poisoned Attacks do not automatically wound Kragg and he has a 2+ Ward save against Flaming Attacks. In addition, the first time in a battle that Kragg is about to die from an unsaved wound, he can roll a special D6 after the wound is resolved. On a 2+ the wound is discounted, but the ability may not be used again.

Runestaff - This ancient staff of oak is adorned with the skull of a minotaur which Kragg slew while still a youth of just a hundred winters. The Skull has been coated in brass to preserve it. If Kragg successfully dispels a spell cast by a Wizard, then the spell's caster suffers an automatic D6 strength 5 hits.
I don't think it's obvious to people who don't know WHF's rules, but just in case I haven't made it clear, this statblock is unbelievably overtuned. I made him kind of overpowered, so if he was playable, he would be prohibitively expensive. I think it's fair enough considering who he is.

I also made him very distinct from Thorek. Thorek's statblock is largely based around the Anvil of Doom, which he is deployed with. Kragg can be deployed with an Anvil of Doom, but he gets no special abilities from it like Thorek does, to represent that he's ironically not as experienced with the Anvil as Thorek. On the other hand, he's got some absurd personal abilities, like the Aura of Negation. Thank older Warhammer Editions for that ability, I don't think 8th Edition has abilities like that.
This is an interesting one. You're right that it's pretty powerful. I'd actually say that his armour and unbreakability are what make him so dangerous, rather than the Aura. No Wizard wants to get into combat with anything anyway, and Kragg is very likely to be in a unit , to which he would confer his MR anyway. Meanwhile making a block of Longbeards or Hammerers unbreakable is very dangerous (even if neither is likely to run anyway), and his armour makes him very difficult to kill. I do feel I should point out that if Kragg counts as a Wizard for dispelling purposes then he'd negate the +2 bonus, even if he himself is not dispelling the spell (for example, if he's lost concentration). Perhaps simply give him a +4 to dispelling and don't have it stack with the Dwarfen one?

Also, it amuses me that the best units I can think to field against Kragg are all Elves. Very ironic.

Mopman, Death, I think I finally found the legendary "Estalian Steel" excerpt that caused the wiki to add it in. This is the only instance so far that I've come across something that could inspire it, but I think this might be the reason it's a thing in the fandom:

"Always carry two weapons lad, that's a lesson I learned the hard way. If I hadn't picked this up I'd not be talking to you right now. See the fine pommel and the gold work? Forget 'em and look at the blade. Finest Estalian steel. That's what matters. That's what'll bring you home. That's also what I used to relieve one of those spellcasting witches of his head after he'd turned my hammer into a snake" Battle of Blood Gorge, 6th Edition Warhammer Core Rulebook Page 140

An excerpt from a battle veteran (who went through one battle and almost died during it) talking about "finest Estalian Steel". Sounds about right for how things proliferate through fandoms.
I've seen similar things before too. In 6th edition the Dawn Armour is said to be made of "burnished Estalian steel" for example. I can see why stuff like that would make the idea that Estalian steel is good pop up. They keep mentioning it, so it must have some quality that sets it apart from other steel, otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned.
 
This is an interesting one. You're right that it's pretty powerful. I'd actually say that his armour and unbreakability are what make him so dangerous, rather than the Aura. No Wizard wants to get into combat with anything anyway, and Kragg is very likely to be in a unit , to which he would confer his MR anyway. Meanwhile making a block of Longbeards or Hammerers unbreakable is very dangerous (even if neither is likely to run anyway), and his armour makes him very difficult to kill. I do feel I should point out that if Kragg counts as a Wizard for dispelling purposes then he'd negate the +2 bonus, even if he himself is not dispelling the spell (for example, if he's lost concentration). Perhaps simply give him a +4 to dispelling and don't have it stack with the Dwarfen one?

Also, it amuses me that the best units I can think to field against Kragg are all Elves. Very ironic.


I've seen similar things before too. In 6th edition the Dawn Armour is said to be made of "burnished Estalian steel" for example. I can see why stuff like that would make the idea that Estalian steel is good pop up. They keep mentioning it, so it must have some quality that sets it apart from other steel, otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned.
I had this written down in the profile: "Kragg the Grim counts as a Level 4 Wizard for the purposes of dispels (adds +4 to dispels, this doesn't stack with the Dwarf Army's innate +2 to dispels)." I thought I made it clear that his personal dispel bonus doesn't stack with the Dwarf Army's innate bonus. If it wasn't clear, any suggestions for a rewording?

Oh wait, you're talking about the rule that says that if a Wizard is on the side of the Dwarfs the Dwarf army loses it's +2 dispel bonus right? Hm, you're right that this particular interaction is something that I've never seen before. I said level 4 Wizard for the purposes of dispelling to convey the idea of a +4 bonus, but maybe I should reword to clarify that he's not actually a Wizard.

Also, I had a special rule in mind that was similar to Golgfag's magic item special rule, where you could choose one character model in the Army to outfit with 100 pts worth of Runic items if you field Kragg on the battlefield. You could have a maximum of 3 Runic Items outfitted on a person but they all had to be different categories and would all have to add up to 100 points, and Kragg would have given a 5 point discount for each rune taken. So if you took 3 runic items each with 3 runes, then that's 9 runes with a 5 point discount for every rune, making it so you could take 145 points worth of runic items and meet the point threshold. The points cost would have been part of Kragg's initial points cost rather than the total army points.

I decided to scrap the idea because Kragg was already looking pretty overtuned. Maybe it would have been flavorful, but thinking about it Kragg doesn't really spend that much time outfitting people. His standards are too high.
 
I had this written down in the profile: "Kragg the Grim counts as a Level 4 Wizard for the purposes of dispels (adds +4 to dispels, this doesn't stack with the Dwarf Army's innate +2 to dispels)." I thought I made it clear that his personal dispel bonus doesn't stack with the Dwarf Army's innate bonus. If it wasn't clear, any suggestions for a rewording?

Oh wait, you're talking about the rule that says that if a Wizard is on the side of the Dwarfs the Dwarf army loses it's +2 dispel bonus right? Hm, you're right that this particular interaction is something that I've never seen before. I said level 4 Wizard for the purposes of dispelling to convey the idea of a +4 bonus, but maybe I should reword to clarify that he's not actually a Wizard.

Also, I had a special rule in mind that was similar to Golgfag's magic item special rule, where you could choose one character model in the Army to outfit with 100 pts worth of Runic items if you field Kragg on the battlefield. You could have a maximum of 3 Runic Items outfitted on a person but they all had to be different categories and would all have to add up to 100 points, and Kragg would have given a 5 point discount for each rune taken. So if you took 3 runic items each with 3 runes, then that's 9 runes with a 5 point discount for every rune, making it so you could take 145 points worth of runic items and meet the point threshold. The points cost would have been part of Kragg's initial points cost rather than the total army points.

I decided to scrap the idea because Kragg was already looking pretty overtuned. Maybe it would have been flavorful, but thinking about it Kragg doesn't really spend that much time outfitting people. His standards are too high.
It's an interesting idea, but I have to agree, I don't think it fits Kragg to be giving out magic items. Actually I'm not sure it really fits any of the Runelords. Which is kind of a pity.
 
Most of their Lords and Heroes, although the generic ones would need to have the right magic items. But the main two that popped to mind were Hellebron (although that's a bit unfair, she kills just about everyone) and Dragon Princes.

The Elves are well suited to this because they're fast and have high WS. Kragg's armour gives them the most trouble, but he has limited return attacks. and his attacks are flaming. That is why the Dragon Princes would be effective against Kragg, because they have a default 2+ ward against flaming attacks.
 
High Elves are very strong in general, but if I were to take a guess at what Death means, I can think of a few things.

The High Elves have a piece of equipment called Dragon Armor that gives them the Fireborn special rule, which is a 2+ Ward Save against Flaming Attacks. Kragg's weapon deals Flaming Attacks, so that actually kind of screws him over. Secondly, a frankly ridiculous amount of Elven troops have Always Strikes First (I think nearly all of them do? Swordmasters lose it because of their Greatswords though). They also have higher initiative than Dwarfs by far.

This means that Elves will always attack before Dwarves, and because they have higher initiative and Always Strikes First, they reroll all missed to hit rolls. If you really want to screw over the Dwarfs, you can get the Cloak of Beards which on a 4+ causes runic items in base contact to be destroyed.

I can see an Elven Hero challenging Kragg to a fight, if Kragg refuses Kragg can't fight in the round of close combat. If he accepts he's at a disadvantage. He might be able to win, but if the enemy is wearing Dragon Armor, he's kind of screwed.
 
Have to say I fine this pretty funny, I know that this is about the tabletop, but meanwhile the discussion is happening in a quest where the main character is Lady Magister Mathilde "Let me charge this Keeper of Secrets with my runic greatsword" Weber.
Technically, what Deathofrats said there doesn't apply to every Wizard, since many character models tends to have the Wizard title. Characters like Malekith, Settra, Greater Daemons, Archaon and the like can all cast spells at the same time as they can rip people apart in combat, it's just that the standard Wizard is squishy and bad at combat.

Something I realised when making a Mathilde statblock for the tabletop actually, is that Mathilde struck me as resembling a Swordmaster of Hoeth more than a Wizard. She has some magical ability, specifically one battlefield altering spell and the rest is highly personal, but her primary power lies in her combat ability and versatility. Kadoh's assessment of her as a "Loremaster" is actually not all that inaccurate, even in the Elven sense. Loremasters and Swordmasters aren't necessarily masters of all the Winds, they're warrior scholars with magical abilities who adapt their understanding of the Winds in their philosophical journey to understand the universe. I can see some Swordmasters/Loremasters sticking to one wind, like the Dragon Mages of Caledor do (Dragon Mages can only cast from Aqshy, they're too tempermental for anything else).
 
Technically, what Deathofrats said there doesn't apply to every Wizard, since many character models tends to have the Wizard title. Characters like Malekith, Settra, Greater Daemons, Archaon and the like can all cast spells at the same time as they can rip people apart in combat, it's just that the standard Wizard is squishy and bad at combat.

Something I realised when making a Mathilde statblock for the tabletop actually, is that Mathilde struck me as resembling a Swordmaster of Hoeth more than a Wizard. She has some magical ability, specifically one battlefield altering spell and the rest is highly personal, but her primary power lies in her combat ability and versatility. Kadoh's assessment of her as a "Loremaster" is actually not all that inaccurate, even in the Elven sense. Loremasters and Swordmasters aren't necessarily masters of all the Winds, they're warrior scholars with magical abilities who adapt their understanding of the Winds in their philosophical journey to understand the universe. I can see some Swordmasters/Loremasters sticking to one wind, like the Dragon Mages of Caledor do (Dragon Mages can only cast from Aqshy, they're too tempermental for anything else).
All of this is kind of why I'm very eager to get that elfcation going at some point.
Potentially getting more ties and connections over there and the first step to getting to see how she stacks up compared to the sword and loremasters.
 
All of this is kind of why I'm very eager to get that elfcation going at some point.
Potentially getting more ties and connections over there and the first step to getting to see how she stacks up compared to the sword and loremasters.
Swordmasters have Weapon Skill 6, which imo is higher than Mathilde's base Weapon Skill. She has yet to reach Grandmaster level skill. However, Swordmasters are Elves, so they have a Strength of 3 and a Toughness of 3, because most Elves are twigs. Mathilde has a Strength of 4 and a base Toughness of 4, which goes up to 5 with her Belt. Mathilde's base physique is vastly superior to the average Elf power wise, which is why Kadoh's first words to her were "you're big".

Mathilde is to an Elf what an Orc is to a Man. Swordmasters are faster, have better reflexes, they're more skilled and sharp and can probably dance circles around her. The deciding factor of course, is the way that Ulgu changed Mathilde to be a death dealing machine, and her absurd equipment.
 
I've seen similar things before too. In 6th edition the Dawn Armour is said to be made of "burnished Estalian steel" for example. I can see why stuff like that would make the idea that Estalian steel is good pop up. They keep mentioning it, so it must have some quality that sets it apart from other steel, otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned.
It may also be a reference to the fact that historically Spain has been a center of blacksmithing and steel working.
 
It may also be a reference to the fact that historically Spain has been a center of blacksmithing and steel working.
Yeah the way I see it it's not that its anything special in terms of crazy properties its just good reliable steel. Nothing that gets up to Dwarf or Elf levels but I could maybe see Dwarfs considering it somewhat passable... for a manling.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top