Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm curious though, have you come to a decision on what Soizic's Virtue was going to be? I'm very curious.

After much thought and wiki diving, I have come to the conclusion that I have narrowed it down enough to be utterly torn between heroism and empathy. I feel like heroism has a good narrative with her teaching Hubert how to fight trolls and other things, and her idolization of Gilles for creating a country. On the other hand, empathy speaks to her leadership of the Undumgi, and her role in Karag Nar.

Other people's opinions are welcome! And also, how does one choose a virtue, in character? Does it just come out at need our is it a dedication ceremony of some kind?
 
After much thought and wiki diving, I have come to the conclusion that I have narrowed it down enough to be utterly torn between heroism and empathy. I feel like heroism has a good narrative with her teaching Hubert how to fight trolls and other things, and her idolization of Gilles for creating a country. On the other hand, empathy speaks to her leadership of the Undumgi, and her role in Karag Nar.

Other people's opinions are welcome! And also, how does one choose a virtue, in character? Does it just come out at need our is it a dedication ceremony of some kind?
A virtue is more of an active choice of what chosen knight/virtue you're attempting to emulate. I don't think there is a specific dedication ceremony, but it is stated in Knights of the Grail that "Knights of the Realm must choose which of the fourteen Virtues they exemplify and select that Talent to complete the career" which in narrative terms probably means that when you set out as a Knights Errant, you probably go on an adventure trying to emulate whichever Knight/Virtue you want and discover more about yourself, and the process of becoming a Knight of the Realm is formalising that Virtue alongside your Vows. I would make it so the Virtue you most exemplify manifests when you take the Knight's Vow, but obviously it has to be an active choice over what you were trying to achieve instead of it being a surprise to you (although maybe some Knights might have intended a specific virtue but accidentally stumbled on one they fit better with).

As a side note, these is a sidebar giving advice to GMs for how to run the Quest for Knights. Much isn't relevant because it's for tabletop, but I think that narratively there is some good stuff in this section:

"There are two types of significance which suit different styles of play. In the first, the Questing Knight unearths and defeats a significant threat to the land of Bretonnia. This might be a Chaos cult, an Orc warlord, or a Bestigor gathering a war herd. In the second, the events of the quest force the Questing Knight to face his weaknesses or past mistakes. Thus, a knight who failed to defend a village against an Orc attack might find himself placed to defend a different village from a horde of Beastmen. On the other hand, a knight with a tendency to lose his temper might find himself forced to calmly negotiate peace between two nobles who hate each other and have nothing but contempt for the Questing Knight himself"

The first type of Quest is a bit too simplistic and wouldn't fit Soizic, but the second allows for a compelling narrative I feel. You could even justify it in universe as the Lady being really enthusiastic about narrative threads and satsifactory character development before giving her rewards.
 
For those new-enlisted roster duty: learning letters and numbers or making of maps or marking of tunnels in raikspeil, for the tank and file.
reikspeil

rank
thus my attention may have wandered to mine others, but even so I heard a low exchange as the cadences of formal khalazid broke up into the irregular strike and repost of conversation.
riposte


Sad that it is unlikely for Soizic to ever hear about what Mathilde did to save these grumpy old craftsdwarfs.
 
6th Edition Dark Elves is crazy. It seems the absurd worldbuilding runs deep with the Dark Elves.

Off the top of my head, Witch Elves are married to Khaine and therefore cannot marry and have children. The Sorceresses of Naggaroth are considered married to Malekith and cannot marry and have children. Khainite Assassins are made by throwing babies in boiling Cauldrons of Blood and seeing who survives. Several festivals are held every year to see who can kill the most slaves and make the largest banner made from their flayed skin, so that they're spared from the Witch Elves hunting them down during Death Night. Every Shade's first day after coming out in the world as a baby is to be tossed out into the wilderness and see if they can survive the night. The ones who survive are the ones who become shades. There is an anecdotal story of a slave writing in his diary of his experiences. He lived in a small village and 30 people from his village (don't think it was the whole village) were taken. Of them, only three survived the trip to Har Ganeth, because of some weird disease. It's implied there were more slaves in the ship, not just the ones from his village, but a 1/10 survival rate is ridiculous for just the trip to Har Ganeth.

I appreciate and enjoy 6th Edition and all the flavor and context it provides me for stuff that I learned about in 8th Edition, but it's truly fascinating seeing how some of the ridiculous stuff in 8th Edition is actually just a toned down version of what was in previous editions. I honestly don't regret reading these earlier editions, it's so fascinating seeing the development of the lore through the decades.
 
6th Edition Dark Elves is crazy. It seems the absurd worldbuilding runs deep with the Dark Elves.
The 8e book was a realization that yes, there is actually something like "too much edge".
Dark elf society was just as Vanta-black/heavy metal album cover worthy as the worst chaos could come up with.

Also highlights just how utterly obscene Asurayan's face heel turn was during the End times.
If the Cadai are the embodiments of cultural virtues, Asurayan would be justice.
Cursing the Phoenix Kings for cheating. Sure? They cheated!
Watching Malekith fall into madness and depravity? That's my man! Look at him go!
Justice? Rubbish.

Not to mention, the Phoenix guard. They enter the "Chamber of Days" and see the past, present and future written in words of fire. How convenient that they all have to take a Vow of Silence.
 
The 8e book was a realization that yes, there is actually something like "too much edge".
While this is true, I was speaking of 6th Edition, which in my opinion is solidly more absurd than even 8th Edition. I have not seen anything about throwing babies in cauldrons of blood or leaving them out on the first day of their birth in 8th Edition.

8th Edition Dark Elves is ridiculous, but it's toned down compared to 6th.
 
While this is true, I was speaking of 6th Edition, which in my opinion is solidly more absurd than even 8th Edition. I have not seen anything about throwing babies in cauldrons of blood or leaving them out on the first day of their birth in 8th Edition.

8th Edition Dark Elves is ridiculous, but it's toned down compared to 6th.
Case in point? The author of 8e realized that 6e was too edgy and toned down the edge. 8e Dark elves are merely sword-porcupines instead of razor-urchins of 6e.
 
Case in point? The author of 8e realized that 6e was too edgy and toned down the edge. 8e Dark elves are merely sword-porcupines instead of razor-urchins of 6e.
To be honest, I do derive a certain level of enjoyment from unapologetic edginess to a certain extent. The Dark Elves don't really do it for me, they go too far in an unpleasant direction and not enough in the "stupid edge" direction that I enjoy, with one possible exception. Malus Darkblade. I haven't personally read his novels, but I read a synopsis and I've seen a sample from his quotes. He's so stupidly cheesy and over the top that I can't help but find him amusing. The following are all real quotes from Malus' wiki page:

"Do you think to break me with but a glance in the mirror? Did you think I would die from the shock of my own ugliness? If so, you are wrong. I am not broken. I am not defeated. My hate is strong and while I hate, I live."

"I still live. I still have my sword and my mother's ring; and my hate, always my hate. Dark Mother, let that be enough!"

"With hate, all things are possible."

"The Time of Blood is at hand! Shake the temple doors and command them to hearken to the Sword-bearer! The Scourge is here, and he will strip the souls from the unworthy and fling them into the outer darkness!"

"You're out there somewhere, daemon. And if you can hear me, you'd best prepare yourself. The Lord of Ruin is coming for you. On, beast of the deep earth. To the Black Ark, to the daemon realms, to the Abyss itself if that is where the trail leads. Our journey is over. Now the hunt begins."

Note that this guy sometimes refers to himself in the third person using titles like "Scourge" and "Lord of Ruin". I think he's stupid, but I also like him because of it.
 
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6th Edition Dark Elves is crazy. It seems the absurd worldbuilding runs deep with the Dark Elves.

Off the top of my head, Witch Elves are married to Khaine and therefore cannot marry and have children. The Sorceresses of Naggaroth are considered married to Malekith and cannot marry and have children. Khainite Assassins are made by throwing babies in boiling Cauldrons of Blood and seeing who survives. Several festivals are held every year to see who can kill the most slaves and make the largest banner made from their flayed skin, so that they're spared from the Witch Elves hunting them down during Death Night. Every Shade's first day after coming out in the world as a baby is to be tossed out into the wilderness and see if they can survive the night. The ones who survive are the ones who become shades. There is an anecdotal story of a slave writing in his diary of his experiences. He lived in a small village and 30 people from his village (don't think it was the whole village) were taken. Of them, only three survived the trip to Har Ganeth, because of some weird disease. It's implied there were more slaves in the ship, not just the ones from his village, but a 1/10 survival rate is ridiculous for just the trip to Har Ganeth.

I appreciate and enjoy 6th Edition and all the flavor and context it provides me for stuff that I learned about in 8th Edition, but it's truly fascinating seeing how some of the ridiculous stuff in 8th Edition is actually just a toned down version of what was in previous editions. I honestly don't regret reading these earlier editions, it's so fascinating seeing the development of the lore through the decades.
It works pretty well as crazy stories told about them, which have varying degrees of truth to them, but also consist of misunderstandings, exaggerations, and stuff that happened once repeated as if it was a daily occurrence. Warhammers conceit of everything being in-universe stories, not factual truth, works pretty well for that.

For the "put babies into lethal situation", I can see at least two ways it 'really' plays out. First, it's actually mostly ritual, and there's protections that ensure it doesn't end up killing them. Second, it could be a rare thing that happens if the parents are guilty of something, and this is a way to cut the "sins of the father" connection. If they survive, they've proven more worthy, if they don't, punishment has been meted out. (I imagine the parents aren't alive when it happens).

As for the marriage thing? Wouldn't be the first time someone misunderstood the social dynamics of another culture, and imposed their own. For example, the no children thing could have been someone who heard they are ritualistically married to Khaine, who then concluded that means they can't have children. Not that it would stop people, even if it was forbidden. (And hey, all those blood cauldron babies have to come from somewhere, right? Which would also give them a personal reason to ensure they survive)
 
It works pretty well as crazy stories told about them, which have varying degrees of truth to them, but also consist of misunderstandings, exaggerations, and stuff that happened once repeated as if it was a daily occurrence. Warhammers conceit of everything being in-universe stories, not factual truth, works pretty well for that.

For the "put babies into lethal situation", I can see at least two ways it 'really' plays out. First, it's actually mostly ritual, and there's protections that ensure it doesn't end up killing them. Second, it could be a rare thing that happens if the parents are guilty of something, and this is a way to cut the "sins of the father" connection. If they survive, they've proven more worthy, if they don't, punishment has been meted out. (I imagine the parents aren't alive when it happens).

As for the marriage thing? Wouldn't be the first time someone misunderstood the social dynamics of another culture, and imposed their own. For example, the no children thing could have been someone who heard they are ritualistically married to Khaine, who then concluded that means they can't have children. Not that it would stop people, even if it was forbidden. (And hey, all those blood cauldron babies have to come from somewhere, right? Which would also give them a personal reason to ensure they survive)
Uh, 6th Edition Dark Elves is written from the perspective of a Dark Elf instructor teaching a Dark Elf noble how to manage his resources and soldiers. It's written in character for every section describing the lore, and only breaks character for the mechanics.
 
Uh, 6th Edition Dark Elves is written from the perspective of a Dark Elf instructor teaching a Dark Elf noble how to manage his resources and soldiers. It's written in character for every section describing the lore, and only breaks character for the mechanics.
Sure, but if the result is too implausible to be taken as real, you can just say it's because it's an outsider describing what they think things are like.
 
Sure, but if the result is too implausible to be taken as real, you can just say it's because it's an outsider describing what they think things are like.
I mean, a lot of these things are "fixed" in 8th Edition with a very simple solution.

They didn't mention it.

Witch Elves being married to Khaine is probably a thing becuase they're referred to as "Brides of Khaine", but there is nothing that says they're not allowed to marry or have children. Sorceresses are never said to be all "married to Malekith" and there's no real restriction on marriage and childbirth stated for them. Shades are described as an outcast clan of wanderers and scouts who are exceptionally skilled, but nothing is mentioned about them being thrown out into the wilds on the first night. Khainite Assassins are stated to be "chosen from infancy", but nothing about them being thrown into a boiling pot. There is one case in which lots of slaves die from the journey from the Old World to Naggaroth, but that figure was closer to 50% than 90% and was the result of blood sacrifice rather than neglect. It was also from a pilgrimage to Khaine rather than slave raiding, so it made sense for that to happen.

Death Night in 8th Edition is also described as a singular annual occasion rather than multiple occasions each year dedicated to slaughtering slaves. The most egregious thing in 8th Edition might be the children for the Black Guard having their entire family killed so they would be dedicated entirely to Malekith, and I find that more reasonable than 6th Edition's worst excesses.

Sometimes the best solution to the problem isn't "unreliable narrator". Sometimes the solution, which was done by 8th Edition here, is "Discard/ignore it". It works.
 
Witch Elves being married to Khaine is probably a thing becuase they're referred to as "Brides of Khaine", but there is nothing that says they're not allowed to marry or have children. Sorceresses are never said to be all "married to Malekith" and there's no real restriction on marriage and childbirth stated for them. Shades are described as an outcast clan of wanderers and scouts who are exceptionally skilled, but nothing is mentioned about them being thrown out into the wilds on the first night. Khainite Assassins are stated to be "chosen from infancy", but nothing about them being thrown into a boiling pot.
Witch Elves and Sorceresses are also a very small fraction of the population.

My guess at the upper caps would be 1% for witch elves and 0.05% for Sorceresses. Maybe another 1% for Sisters of Slaughter . Having just above 2% of women remove themselves from the pool of marriagable women is not that big of a deal.

The majority of the warrior women of the Dark Elves fight in more sensible formations wearing proper armor.

And thrown in a cauldron of blood could be a Khainite version of Asurayan's fire for phoenix kings. Them being "chosen" would explain how they get to WS 9 so fast.
 
I mean, a lot of these things are "fixed" in 8th Edition with a very simple solution.

They didn't mention it.

Witch Elves being married to Khaine is probably a thing becuase they're referred to as "Brides of Khaine", but there is nothing that says they're not allowed to marry or have children. Sorceresses are never said to be all "married to Malekith" and there's no real restriction on marriage and childbirth stated for them. Shades are described as an outcast clan of wanderers and scouts who are exceptionally skilled, but nothing is mentioned about them being thrown out into the wilds on the first night. Khainite Assassins are stated to be "chosen from infancy", but nothing about them being thrown into a boiling pot. There is one case in which lots of slaves die from the journey from the Old World to Naggaroth, but that figure was closer to 50% than 90% and was the result of blood sacrifice rather than neglect. It was also from a pilgrimage to Khaine rather than slave raiding, so it made sense for that to happen.

Death Night in 8th Edition is also described as a singular annual occasion rather than multiple occasions each year dedicated to slaughtering slaves. The most egregious thing in 8th Edition might be the children for the Black Guard having their entire family killed so they would be dedicated entirely to Malekith, and I find that more reasonable than 6th Edition's worst excesses.

Sometimes the best solution to the problem isn't "unreliable narrator". Sometimes the solution, which was done by 8th Edition here, is "Discard/ignore it". It works.
Sure, that works too. I just find the "misunderstanding of other cultures" angle super interesting, because of how much of it happened in our world. If you apply it solely to the Dark Elves, you get some nasty implications, but you can go the same way with the dwarfs, Bretonnia, etc. I guess it's just my personal preference, I just enjoy that approach more than "Ehh, it was dumb and so we dropped it". (Though in some cases, like the jungle haflings, it's the better approach)
 
So after the jades, I want to recruit the warden of frost and talk to one of the hegdewise groups and magic elf clans.

after that, I think we can actually get started on the project. (obviously getting more groups would be better, but we are on a everchosion clock.)
 
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Sure, that works too. I just find the "misunderstanding of other cultures" angle super interesting, because of how much of it happened in our world. If you apply it solely to the Dark Elves, you get some nasty implications, but you can go the same way with the dwarfs, Bretonnia, etc. I guess it's just my personal preference, I just enjoy that approach more than "Ehh, it was dumb and so we dropped it". (Though in some cases, like the jungle haflings, it's the better approach)
Sometimes it can be hard to come up with a solution that explains in universe stupidity without creating additional stupidity behind the curtain.
 
So I finished 6th Edition Dark Elves and there's an interesting character that I want talk about. Their name is Furion of Clar Karond, and they're the Sorceror/ess who made the Tome of Furion (in both 6th and 8th Edition) and the Crown of Black Iron, both powerful artifacts indicating a great degree of knowledge of the Dark Arts. Beyond that, there's an excerpt from their journals in 6th Edition, and it gives a very biased accounting of Dark Elf history (everybody else is horrible we're the best). That doesn't matter, what matters is some of the stuff they said.

First, the implications of the text indicate Furion is still alive (they describe the Great War against Chaos/Battle of Finuval Plain and discuss a Storm of Chaos coming soon). Another outright statement is that Furion is apparently in the same category as Hellebron and Morathi, they describe themselves as "old when the world was young", and they mention that they have "eaten the fruit of the Black Tree and, by the will of the Witch King, I have lived through ages even as my comrades have died". They're a sorceror and somehow the captain of a Black Ark ship, the Claw of Dominion. Another elf to add to the list of "super old characters" I guess.

You will notice I'm using they/them. That's because not once is their gender mentioned in the sources I'm reading (aside from the wiki... which, yeah). The assumption might be that they're a woman because of the prophecy, but they predate Naggaroth and could be skirting on a technicality. While GW might not have intended it, they could also be nonbinary.

Which brings me to:

Furion stood by Malekith's side as the two viewed Hotek's crucified body in Naggarond's central plaza from their vantage point atop Malekith's tower on the balcony. Furion was not the type of person to betray their nerves, but there was no way they would ever betray their true feelings as they passively viewed Hotek's lifeless body being fed on by harpies.

"Hmmm. Furion, could you clarify something for me please? Is the title "Sorceror" still the term you prefer, or something else? I wouldn't want to be impolite." Malekith's deep voice boomed out of his suit, and Furion couldn't help but wonder if he asked for enchantments to make his voice sound like that.

Furion's mind ran through a dozen different scenarios, then settled on a response.

"I'm perfectly fine with the term Sorceress. I've never felt a connection to any gendered term, but I don't reject them either."

Malekith let out a hum from deep within his throat. "Understandable. Have a nice day, Sorceress Furion." Malekith turned from the balcony, his 180 degree turn sending his cape flapping behind him as he briskly walked further into his throne room.

Furion sometimes regretted signing up to this revolution.
 
So I finished 6th Edition Dark Elves and there's an interesting character that I want talk about. Their name is Furion of Clar Karond, and they're the Sorceror/ess who made the Tome of Furion (in both 6th and 8th Edition) and the Crown of Black Iron, both powerful artifacts indicating a great degree of knowledge of the Dark Arts. Beyond that, there's an excerpt from their journals in 6th Edition, and it gives a very biased accounting of Dark Elf history (everybody else is horrible we're the best). That doesn't matter, what matters is some of the stuff they said.

First, the implications of the text indicate Furion is still alive (they describe the Great War against Chaos/Battle of Finuval Plain and discuss a Storm of Chaos coming soon). Another outright statement is that Furion is apparently in the same category as Hellebron and Morathi, they describe themselves as "old when the world was young", and they mention that they have "eaten the fruit of the Black Tree and, by the will of the Witch King, I have lived through ages even as my comrades have died". They're a sorceror and somehow the captain of a Black Ark ship, the Claw of Dominion. Another elf to add to the list of "super old characters" I guess.

You will notice I'm using they/them. That's because not once is their gender mentioned in the sources I'm reading (aside from the wiki... which, yeah). The assumption might be that they're a woman because of the prophecy, but they predate Naggaroth and could be skirting on a technicality. While GW might not have intended it, they could also be nonbinary.
I don't have the book, but wasn't there a male sorcerer in Malekith's inner circle (from before the prophecy) that survived everything Malekith and his sorceress daughters threw at him?

I think Furion is male name: All of the elf character names I can think of (which is far from a comprehensive list) end in a vowel when the character is a female, and in a consonant when it's a male. A lot of major characters have the 'ion' ending, and they are all male.
Morathi
Alarielle
Alitharielle
Yvraine
There are exceptions: Hellebron, for example.

Otoh:
Aenarion, Morellion, Tyrion, Eltharion.

Another reason I associate the 'ion' ending for names with males is Warhammer's Tolkienian inspiration: in Quenya, "ion" is a patronymic suffix meaning "son of". It doesn't make much sense in warhammer, because those are first names, but it's a strong association, to me.

Secondly, if Furion were a woman, she'd be a subordinate to Morathi and a part of the Convents of Sorcery. As a Male, he'd have to be an outsider to the Convents, which makes for an interesting dynamic in my opinion. Someone good enough to survive that long would not bow down easily to Morathi (and she is exactly the kind to make her subordinates grovel beneath her).

Thirdly, It puts the Dark Elves older than Dirt as 2 males and 2 females, which has a pleasing symmetry :V
 
I don't have the book, but wasn't there a male sorcerer in Malekith's inner circle (from before the prophecy) that survived everything Malekith and his sorceress daughters threw at him?

I think Furion is male name: All of the elf character names I can think of (which is far from a comprehensive list) end in a vowel when the character is a female, and in a consonant when it's a male. A lot of major characters have the 'ion' ending, and they are all male.
Morathi
Alarielle
Alitharielle
Yvraine
There are exceptions: Hellebron, for example.

Otoh:
Aenarion, Morellion, Tyrion, Eltharion.

Another reason I associate the 'ion' ending for names with males is Warhammer's Tolkienian inspiration: in Quenya, "ion" is a patronymic suffix meaning "son of". It doesn't make much sense in warhammer, because those are first names, but it's a strong association, to me.

Secondly, if Furion were a woman, she'd be a subordinate to Morathi and a part of the Convents of Sorcery. As a Male, he'd have to be an outsider to the Convents, which makes for an interesting dynamic in my opinion. Someone good enough to survive that long would not bow down easily to Morathi (and she is exactly the kind to make her subordinates grovel beneath her).

Thirdly, It puts the Dark Elves older than Dirt as 2 males and 2 females, which has a pleasing symmetry :V
That sorceror is literally Furion, who I spent an entire post talking about. Their gender is never stated.

Also, hear me out. I'm nonbinary. I want a nonbinary character. You know what's better than pleasing symmetry to me? Seeing people like me exist in a fantasy setting.
 
So I immediately moved to the Lizardmen 6th Edition Army Book and I was hit with a gigantic bombshell of lore almost immediately. This is incredibly interesting, so I will try to paraphrase without missing out on important details:

The Five Spawnings of the Mage Priests:

The first generation of Slaan are implied to have accompanied the Old Ones on their arrival to the Warhammer World (EDIT: After reading on a little, maybe I misread the initial statement, because they later say that Kroak was the first Slann spawned on the planet.). They are the oldest and most powerful and were involved in the creation of the first Temple Cities, and they were the only ones who could meet and speak to the Old Ones, "perhaps because no other living creature had the mental or physical strength to cope with the experience". They're all dead and those whose bodies could be found were embalmed and kept as relics, becoming the "Relic Priests". Lord Kroak is from this spawning.

The second spawning of the Slaan were created to help with the alteration of the world's orbit. They are incredibly old and powerful even though they've never met the Old Ones. There are only five remaining according to the book (Mazdamundi being one of them).

The third spawning are several thousand years younger than the second spawning, and they're the ones who created and still rule the lesser Temple Cities. There are less than twenty of them remaining.

The fourth spawning are more numerous and were created to tend to the warp gates in the poles and the World Pond, the separation of the continents.

The fifth spawning were made a few centuries before the Chaos Incursion. They are the most numerous, active and aggressive.

I just thought this was interesting, especially the numbers for how many Second and Third spawnings there are and the reasons for each of the spawnings.
 
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Does that mean that there is a chance for a sixth spawning, if most of them happened without the old ones' involvement?
 
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