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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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If Grimgor is of a mind to get more lackeys, he might get it in his head- who hates the spikey stunties as much as he does? Who would jump at any chance to see more of them dead?
Who is currently working on a new campaign of reclamation?

Perhaps when Mount Silverspear is reclaimed, a single orc will show up, and ask to see the stuntie warboss...
 
Mopman43 said:
Honestly, I can totally buy that, there's not a hint of Waaagh about the Gnoblars or Hobgoblins that I've ever seen.
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At least in DL, the Hobgoblins are explicitly stated to be Goblins who turned their back on Gork and Mork:
Boney said:
The gates are closed, but a small door in the base of them is open, and a handful of what must be Hobgoblins shiver and bicker as they crowd around a cooking fire. Physically they look little different from 'normal' Goblins except perhaps a bit taller, but their nature is said to be entirely different, as these are the Goblins that have turned their backs on Gork and Mork, either in favour of Hashut or pure self-interest. East of Kurgan land they're said to control a vast stretch known as the Khanates, and here in the Dark Lands they're possibly the craftiest of those in the service of the Chaos Dwarves.
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If we assume that the Waaagh is maintained by Gork and Mork, then the Hobgoblins shouldn't have it.
Woltaire said:
4th editon not canon by default though in DL? also considering that they nearly brought down their entire civilization nay race, I doubt they would take the risk again and have them in their army, plus they are terrible at being slaves
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It's generally accepted fanon that he was a Chaos Dwarf slave, partly because of his description in 8th Edition saying he came from the Dark Lands exhausted and hungry and partly because it was explicitly stated in the End Times.

This is how it works in my omake. A note that this is not canon, but rather how I justify it: Power is one hell of a drug. The Black Orcs are incredibly powerful, and the Chaos Dwarves are very few. They're very careful with this crop of Black Orcs nowadays, making sure to separate them into groups, putting them in reserves, never letting them interact for long periods and keeping them cooped up separately and controlling every aspect of their lives. They've got collars on them that prevent the Waagh from forming and squeeze down on the blood vessels while growing warm, choking them out and causing intense pain to teach them a lesson, and they're not afraid to keep doing it until they learn that obedience is key. They only give magical and high quality equipment to a Black Orc who has served with distinction for at least ten years with complete obedience.

Grimgor played a very long game to achieve his freedom, looking for an opportunity where a superior of his would get greedy and draw from the "loyal" reserve troops.
 
Woltaire said:
4th editon not canon by default though in DL? also considering that they nearly brought down their entire civilization nay race, I doubt they would take the risk again and have them in their army, plus they are terrible at being slaves
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Zharr-Naggrund is ruled by Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers, and to become a Dwarven Sorcerer you have to choose power over self-preservation. Of course they would take the risk.
 
Codex said:
At least in DL, the Hobgoblins are explicitly stated to be Goblins who turned their back on Gork and Mork
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You know what would be interesting? If changing the amount of Gork and Mork in the equation results in Greenskins different kinds of green.

Hobgoblins turned out of self interest...
Gnoblars turned out of fear of ogres...
Black orcs were forced to turn with dark sorcery...
 
Boney said:
Zharr-Naggrund is ruled by Chaos Dwarf Sorcerers, and to become a Dwarven Sorcerer you have to choose power over self-preservation. Of course they would take the risk.
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And I would argue even more than is usual for a sorcerer. Unlike the Four Hashut is up front, if you use magic you will rule... but you will also turn to stone. The price is explicit and clear. I can kind of see why He of all the dark powers appealed to the eastern dwarfs. I do not imagine that his was the only temptation in an age when daemons walked the earth unfettered, but his was the bargain they took.
 
You know, given Hashut's domains, and the fact that the Chaos Dwarves are specifically on the lookout for Crystal Keys (we know this from Chaos Vegas customs), I think it more likely that Hashut is a god of Law than Chaos.

If so, I guess they'd be constantly pissed off that everyone else calls them Chaos Dwarves.
:V
 
Deathbybunnies said:
You know, given Hashut's domains, and the fact that the Chaos Dwarves are specifically on the lookout for Crystal Keys (we know this from Chaos Vegas customs), I think it more likely that Hashut is a god of Law than Chaos.

If so, I guess they'd be constantly pissed off that everyone else calls them Chaos Dwarves.
:V
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Given that he causes bestial mutations and is OK with his people selling canons to the hordes of Chaos he has no one but himself to blame if that is the case.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
You know, given Hashut's domains, and the fact that the Chaos Dwarves are specifically on the lookout for Crystal Keys (we know this from Chaos Vegas customs), I think it more likely that Hashut is a god of Law than Chaos.

If so, I guess they'd be constantly pissed off that everyone else calls them Chaos Dwarves.
:V
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I'd just as soon put the keys down to an Easter Egg.
 
Just for fun, I thought I would update Belegar's WHFB profile from DL. Last time we saw it, it looked like this:
Boney said:
Duel Interlude:

Code: 
Belegar Ironhammer
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
3 6 4 4 5 3 4 3 10
The Hammer of Angrund: Always strikes first, +1 to wound
Shield of Defiance: 4+ Ward Save
Gromril Armour
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Belegar's changed since then. I'll put my modified statblock under spoilers:
MWSBSSTWIALd
3646634310
Troop Type: Infantry (Special Character)

Special Rules: Ancestral Grudge (Hatred against Orcs and Goblins as well as Skaven), Relentless (+1 S on a charge), Resolute (Can march within 8" of an enemy without LD test), Stubborn (always counts as steadfast, never receives penalties for being outnumbered).

Duelist: Belegar must always issue a challenge if he is able, and may never refuse a challenge. When in a challenge, Belegar may reroll all failed to Hit rolls.

Goraki: At the start of each of the player's Movement phases, Belegar can allow one friendly unit within 12" to reform for free. This maneuver does not count towards movement or shooting penalties.

In addition, if Belegar is chosen as your lord choice, one unit of Rangers may be upgraded to have the Ambushers special rule.

Magic Items:

Hammer of Angrund: Magic Weapon. Always Strikes First and +1 to Wound.

Shield of Defiance: Magic Armor: Shield. 4+ Ward save and immunity to Killing Blow and Heroic Killing Blow. KB and HKB are treated as normal wounds.

Crown of Vala-Azril-Ungol: Talisman/Magic Banner. Belegar acts as both the Army's General and Battle Standard Bearer, the range of his Inspiring Presence and Hold Your Ground! Special rules are 18" rather than the normal 12". In addition, Belegar gains +2 S and +1 T (already added to his profile).
I shamelessly stole from other profiles for my own benefit here. Canon Belegar had Revenge Incarnate, which I didn't think fit DL Belegar, so it wasn't included. Duelist is a rip from Chakax and Nekaph's own Duelist special rules. Goraki was inspired by one of the results from Marius Leitdorf's insanity table, which gave a free reform to everyone, but the randomness justified it's OPness, so I adjusted it here. Ambushers just felt like it fit Belegar.

The Crown's effects were inspired by Gorbad Ironclaw's own special rule "Da Boss 'as a Plan!", with some stat boosts in there as well. This probably doesn't interest many of you, but it was fun for me.
 
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Codex said:
Belegar's changed since then. I'll put my modified statblock under spoilers:
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Seems pretty solid. Only two questions, first, is the reason he's WS6 because Boney's version was? And second, is the Shield meant to make him entirely immune to KB and HKB, or just treat them like normal Wounds?
 
I was rereading a bit of the thread, and I found this old comment of mine:

Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Cython has proposed that the eight winds are similar to gods.

Runes work by trapping a sliver of the winds and taming them to perform a particular purpose.

Hypothosis: If winds can be trapped in runes, and winds are gods, then gods can be trapped in runes too.


Edit: wait, wait. Elves have the cardinal framework for magic. Humans have mystical/elemental framework for magic. How elves use magic is similar to how elves mantle gods.

What if Karnos is Elemental Taal? What if Taal is Mystical Karnos?
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And I can't help but feel the last few updates have proven my hypothesis correct. We replicated a sliver of divine energy that felt like a god and encased it within a crystal—this implies that with a large enough cage (be it a crystal or a rune), we could imprison an entire god within it.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I was rereading a bit of the thread, and I found this old comment of mine:



And I can't help but feel the last few updates have proven my hypothesis correct. We replicated a sliver of divine energy that felt like a god and encased it within a crystal—this implies that with a large enough cage (be it a crystal or a rune), we could imprison an entire god within it.
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I see... so if we build a big enough rat trap out of crystal and runes we can catch the Horned Rat... and then keep him in a cage as a pet, feed him and watch him drink water and run on his Doomwheel.

...that's what everyone else was thinking right?
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Seems pretty solid. Only two questions, first, is the reason he's WS6 because Boney's version was? And second, is the Shield meant to make him entirely immune to KB and HKB, or just treat them like normal Wounds?
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Yeah he's WS6 because Boney's version was. This version of Belegar is 50 years younger than the canon version and hasn't gone through nearly as many fights and hardships, so it made sense for his WS to be two points lower than canon anyway.

The Shield's ability is straight up ripped from Belegar's canon profile. It treats Killing Blows and Heroic Killing Blows as regular wounds.
 
Codex said:
Yeah he's WS6 because Boney's version was. This version of Belegar is 50 years younger than the canon version and hasn't gone through nearly as many fights and hardships, so it made sense for his WS to be two points lower than canon anyway.

The Shield's ability is straight up ripped from Belegar's canon profile. It treats Killing Blows and Heroic Killing Blows as regular wounds.
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I get that. I was just slightly confused because the default Dwarf Lord WS is 7.

Well yeah, but then you're missing the last bit of the text, where it treats those as regular wounds instead. As it is, it sort of reads like attacks that trigger KB or HKB just do nothing.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
I get that. I was just slightly confused because the default Dwarf Lord WS is 7.

Well yeah, but then you're missing the last bit of the text, where it treats those as regular wounds instead. As it is, it sort of reads like attacks that trigger KB or HKB just do nothing.
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Well, I edited it to include the parts I missed.

Also, yeah I was a bit confused at WS6 as well considering the standard Dwarf lord is WS7, but I suppose the reason for that is what Boney said about Belegar being "young for a Dwarf King". I also think that K8P was his first major engagement/battle, since he was only really involved in skirmishes and minor engagements before.
 
Andres110 said:
Are Ranald's daughters halfling gods?
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I don't think we know enough to be able to guess that. My instinct is to say no because the Halfling gods are generally pretty separate from the human ones (aside from Sigmar, which is stated to be an odd case). If it is the case, then I suppose the options are Groplotta (Goddess of Gardening), Esmeralda (Home, Hearth and Cooking), and Hyacinth (Fertility and Motherhood).

Also, @Boney I have a question because I've been thinking about making a WHFB profile for Dragomas, Paranoth and Algard. Do all three of them have the Loremaster trait? You might not want to answer and that's fine. My instinct was to give it to them because Gelt and Elspeth both have it and I think those three are powerful enough to justify it.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
I was rereading a bit of the thread, and I found this old comment of mine:



And I can't help but feel the last few updates have proven my hypothesis correct. We replicated a sliver of divine energy that felt like a god and encased it within a crystal—this implies that with a large enough cage (be it a crystal or a rune), we could imprison an entire god within it.
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Isn't one of the gods of law trapped in crystal?
 
IronFist said:
Isn't one of the gods of law trapped in crystal?
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Arianka. She's trapped in a crystal coffin under someplace, likely Praag, and by the Chaos Gods no less. Needs crystal keys to unlock. Reminder that she's 1st edition and there is no guarantee the Gods of Law exist. If they did, I imagine Solkan would have been mentioned at some point since Mathilde had a Witch Hunter boss, and Solkan is popular with them.
 
Codex said:
If they did, I imagine Solkan would have been mentioned at some point since Mathilde had a Witch Hunter boss, and Solkan is popular with them.
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While I suspect you're most likely correct, I do want to note that I kinda doubt Abelhelm "I don't care if you're corrupt just don't make it an actual Problem, we have vampires to kill" van Hal would have been Solkan's biggest fan regardless.
 
Wiadi said:
While I suspect you're most likely correct, I do want to note that I kinda doubt Abelhelm "I don't care if you're corrupt just don't make it an actual Problem, we have vampires to kill" van Hal would have been Solkan's biggest fan regardless.
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Oh yeah for sure, but I expect he would have complained about him or Mathilde would have mentioned him in her internal monologue at some point, especially when they started flooding Stirland after Roswita arrtived.

I heavily doubt Abelhelm would have liked Solkan.
 
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