Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Really? How is that going for us then?
*looks around at the vast powers of Chaos at the Everchosen marching ever closer to the world's ruin as the elder races fade and the younger Fall*
...you mean the force dedicated almost entirely to blind faith is winning over the ones less faithful? And the Dwarves are literally planning on a resurgence. And the Empire isn't even on the backfoot right now. I understand if you're bitter, but the vote hasn't even started yet, and snapping at people is probably just going to make people less likely to go for your preferred option.
 
We've just started a potentially world-shaking project to create an alliance of secretive parties to collaborate in the reverse engineering of ancient Waystone magitech. Where we're seriously considering bringing in some Cults, by the by. And we've just decided to lead the Colleges' contributions, via WEB-MAT.

I want to finish that. We started it! I don't think it continues without us.

Oh, we also made ourselves Head Librarian to the foundations of what we hope will be the greatest repository of written knowledge in the Old World.

This is bigger.

Like unironically this has the potential to be fundamentally revelatory in the same way E=MC squared is revelatory. If all divine material can be crafted from Vitae then souls or apparitions or daemons could also be made from AV - this opens up entire branches of research and insight.


This is a very risky and AP consuming activity - but it is also the most important thing that we could be doing. It is probably the most important thing that Teclis could be doing (unless he knows about it). AP spent on it has greater value than AP spent elsewhere in terms of what knowledge we can bring out of it.
 
Adding to our backlog of action options a hitlist of heists to steal copies of these divine signatures seems like a long, long chain of actions to (hopefully) acquire safely, under possible Divine scrutiny- a list we may well never complete, because voting, and I for one would vote against those plans. Or if we do pursue it, it'll delay stuff we're already in line for doing, like those Waystones. And in turn further delay even more long anticipated opportunities, like Nagarythe, home of Ulgu Commando Elves.

An unexercised option, almost by definition, always has positive value. It is never a downside to have an option we put on the back burner for a few years until we have time for it.

Those extra electrons for that extra row in the options for turn planning are not a relevant cost.
 
I don't think that Faith is asking Ranald what to do and expecting to receive a stop. It is offering the sacrifice of what we have done, and for the sacrifice to be genuine we must stop. Thus the decision to stop research is done in the act of choosing Faith, not afterwards. (If faith was asking Ranald then we could always ignore his answer, thus Faith wouldn't be stopping the research)
If that is your read, then we already have an answer- if a cease and desist order is guaranteed, then we know he does not want us to do it.
 
No divine energies are getting stolen in these experiments. Essentially this is externally introduced pure Aethyr getting attuned to a divinity and then stored in a crystal. Presumably if one can travel into said divinity's domain and get a sample of ambient energy there the result would be the same.

There may be a way to expand the options. Perhaps we may decide to keep experimenting but focus on Destruction gods (Horned Rat, Gork&Mork, maybe Great Maw)? Perhaps we can simply go to a priest of a more open minded cult, explain to them the idea and ask for permission? Heck, this may even be extremely useful for priests themselves!

Also we just have one crystal. Our theory on what it is is a good one, but still just a theory until we have a second one of another divinity to compare.

Finally, an option is to go to Gretel who is both a Wizard and a Morrite priest (since she can do rites I assume she's ordained). Perhaps she can offer her view on the matter.

Therefore I'm inclined to the Truth option. We are not obligated to run around temples stealing fires if we choose it. It can wait for a more morally clear opportunity.
 
...you mean the force dedicated almost entirely to blind faith is winning over the ones less faithful? And the Dwarves are literally planning on a resurgence. And the Empire isn't even on the backfoot right now. I understand if you're bitter, but the vote hasn't even started yet, and snapping at people is probably just going to make people less likely to go for your preferred option.

Have you met Tzeench? Transitive understanding is his thing and all the dark gods promise knowledge beyond the ken of mortal man to any who would grasp it.
 
When the QM says that the research option is to vote truth, and he only explicitly says truth.
Then it means nothing more than truth is the research option.

Stop trying to have the cake and eat it too...
There's a difference between making progress on something and researching it, and there's the possibility in the air, albeit small and unlikely, that Ranald might want us to look further. It's less eating the cake and more making note that the cake is there, it can be offered, it can be bought, and eaten. But we don't know if we can get it for a myriad of reasons. Such as lacking money, or the store owner not liking us, etc.
 
Have you met Tzeench? Transitive understanding is his thing and all the dark gods promise knowledge beyond the ken of mortal man to any who would grasp it.
...the knowledge that drive them mad and willing to break the world? That knowledge is more like him giving his followers timebombs to blindly poke at. I don't think any of his followers are actually allowed to grasp anything like his true nature at all.
 
Like unironically this has the potential to be fundamentally revelatory in the same way E=MC squared is revelatory. If all divine material can be crafted from Vitae then souls or apparitions or daemons could also be made from AV - this opens up entire branches of research and insight.

An excellent point… for faith.

What you just described sounds like the opening flavor text of a new order opposed faction, like necromancy but more existential horror.

I do not trust humanity with that kind of power.

An unexercised option, almost by definition, always has positive value. It is never a downside to have an option we put on the back burner for a few years until we have time for it.

Not if you buy it in broken trust and it leaves the option of someone finding the Nuclear Skeleton in our closet.
 
If that is your read, then we already have an answer- if a cease and desist order is guaranteed, then we know he does not want us to do it.
You have misunderstood me. For a sacrifice to be a sacrifice we need to give something up. If after the sacrifice we can just go and re-create it then we have not meaningfully given up anything and thus the sacrifice is pointless. If we choose Faith we are not asking Ranald for his blessing to conduct research. We are sacrificing to him the possibility of that research. Thus there is no cease-and-desist order because it is not applicable.
 
If that is your read, then we already have an answer- if a cease and desist order is guaranteed, then we know he does not want us to do it.

In the Faith option, there is no cease and desist order. Faith is Mathilde proactively sacrificing the potential of the research to Ranald, preemptively committing not to pursue it as a demonstrated of her commitment to Him. It's a sacrifice because of the potential value Mathilde is giving up, not because Ranald necessarily wants her to stop. Ranald could be completely cool with the idea of her stealing the Aethyric signatures of other gods and if we choose Faith we'd very likely never know that, and she might get rewarded anyway for the depths of her devotion.
 
No divine energies are getting stolen in these experiments. Essentially this is externally introduced pure Aethyr getting attuned to a divinity and then stored in a crystal. Presumably if one can travel into said divinity's domain and get a sample of ambient energy there the result would be the same.

There may be a way to expand the options. Perhaps we may decide to keep experimenting but focus on Destruction gods (Horned Rat, Gork&Mork, maybe Great Maw)? Perhaps we can simply go to a priest of a more open minded cult, explain to them the idea and ask for permission? Heck, this may even be extremely useful for priests themselves!

Also we just have one crystal. Our theory on what it is is a good one, but still just a theory until we have a second one of another divinity to compare.

Finally, an option is to go to Gretel who is both a Wizard and a Morrite priest (since she can do rites I assume she's ordained). Perhaps she can offer her view on the matter.

Therefore I'm inclined to the Truth option. We are not obligated to run around temples stealing fires if we choose it. It can wait for a more morally clear opportunity.
Mathilde explicitly says that if the Cults or the Gods themselves found out it would be war. There is no asking them, becasue that is literally advocating for blasphemy. The God themself will personally smite us or torture us like Prometheus. Truth is being completely clandestine in the operation and hoping to Ranald that- Oh wait, we wouldn't hope to Ranald because we'd be betraying him.

This is stealing from the gods. It's not stealing their energy, it's stealing their fingerprint. A higher form of blasphemy that could hardly be matched by anything else because you're attempting to steal the effects of a god without the god's permission or consent. That is stealing, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it.
 
There's a difference between making progress on something and researching it, and there's the possibility in the air, albeit small and unlikely, that Ranald might want us to look further. It's less eating the cake and more making note that the cake is there, it can be offered, it can be bought, and eaten. But we don't know if we can get it for a myriad of reasons. Such as lacking money, or the store owner not liking us, etc.

Except the GM knows what can and cannot be done, he is the one playing Ranald. If Ranald was willing to give us something similar to Truth if we chose Faith then it would be a non-choice and bad quest design. Call me crazy but I think different options do different things especially when we are told they do.
 
To be clear: Prometheus was a hero who saved the lives of countless mortals, and everyone with ethics should do the same. We just shouldn't get caught doing it ;)
So personal privacy is negotiable in the name of searching for a nebulous truth? Never mind the fact Promethius shared fire he stole. We can't. We wouldn't be thanked, nor would lives inherently be saved. We'd be lynched.

Likewise… the burden of proof is on you if you want to assert that there's no real risk being seen stealing divine fire from the likes of Ulric's Flame. Especially since we can only recognize the presence of Ranald from long experience.

Pay attention to Mathilde's narrative. She doesn't talk about the good she can do, the injustice of the gods not vivisecting themselves for humanity's edification. She talks about making a collection, of learning secrets simply because they are secret and knowing the places her above others. This is not the pursuit of truth from a noble place. It's a thief stealing a hoard cherished by another. It's seeking knowledge for the simple reason that few would ever have it, and possessing it asserts your primacy. It's not about some unworkable desire to mass produce miracles. It promises no inherent good, only the notion of that mathilde learning something is an axiomatic good

Edit: we're stealing a fingerprint,- signifier of identity itself. That's literally a crime to do to a person as far as I'm aware.
 
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An unexercised option, almost by definition, always has positive value. It is never a downside to have an option we put on the back burner for a few years until we have time for it.

Those extra electrons for that extra row in the options for turn planning are not a relevant cost.
They most certainly are if we wind up with multiple, incomplete (or worse, failed) projects because of insufficient attention due to swinging vote focuses. Look at the delay between Vitae followup actions gaining traction, for an example of the event, if not the fallout.
I say again, I want to finish what we've just begun rousing the Old World to start.
 
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An unexercised option, almost by definition, always has positive value. It is never a downside to have an option we put on the back burner for a few years until we have time for it.
Assuming the option itself will have a positive outcome, compared to the risks it invites. Already, we're seeing the beginnings of another Tongs-level theorizing storm, but we have no idea what this could actually lead to at all.
 
Whatever. It's three in the morning. Y'all wanna betray the lad who's been with us through everything, go nuts. I'll vote Faith when I wake up.
 
Mathilde explicitly says that if the Cults or the Gods themselves found out it would be war. There is no asking them, becasue that is literally advocating for blasphemy. The God themself will personally smite us or torture us like Prometheus. Truth is being completely clandestine in the operation and hoping to Ranald that- Oh wait, we wouldn't hope to Ranald because we'd be betraying him.

No she did not. She did not say it was declaring war on the Cults and the Gods. She said it was declaring war on their secrecy.

Dropping the word secrecy totally transforms what the update said.
 
Except the GM knows what can and cannot be done, he is the one playing Ranald. If Ranald was willing to give us something similar to Truth if we chose Faith then it would be a non-choice and bad quest design. Call me crazy but I think different options do different things especially when we are told they do.
I just said that either result may still end up with progress, even if it doesn't take the form of scientific research in the future, and for all, we know it might be more a series of quests and favors. It's not guaranteed but that is like any other option in the quest and life.
 
Unlike Tongs this option is provided by the GM, so you know it does have actual gold in the seam.
...was it? I'm pretty sure the thread came up with investigating the Coin like this in the first place. Wait, every research option Boney gives us to guaranteed to have good results? Tongs has gold in the seam too, it just requires working with Dhar. Much like how this could be useful with incredible downsides.
 
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