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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
I was talking about the thread getting attached fast, but not necessarily romantically. Eshin friend isn't seen romantically (outside some jokes, but I think he got like one or two votes), and the mammoth certainly wasn't.

So let's please not bring that up again, because the arguing isn't going to get us anywhere new.
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You're the one who mentioned the "tree spirit thing" (Cadaeth) and the romance vote first, not me. I'm not here to argue or relitigate, just stating that Cadaeth has certain factors involved in the choice to pursue her that I doubt Cython had. Cython made up for it with intellectual attractiveness though (intelligence, power, mystery etc.)
 
Codex said:
You're the one who mentioned the "tree spirit thing" (Cadaeth) and the romance vote first, not me. I'm not here to argue or relitigate, just stating that Cadaeth has certain factors involved in the choice to pursue her that I doubt Cython had. Cython made up for it with intellectual attractiveness though (intelligence, power, mystery etc.)
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I did bring up that she performed well in the romance vote, but that was in the context of examples of the thread latching onto people after a first meeting, and the romance vote was just to illustrate that (since she's otherwise mostly dropped off again, and therefore is arguably not an example). So I feel it's fair to both bring up that she performed well, without wanting another flare-up for why.
 
I'm perfectly willing to shelve the topic and move on. So to discuss something else:
Boney said:
You check in regularly over the next few days, and healing seems to be surprisingly rapid, though you're not sure whether to ascribe this to some property of the prosthetic, or as a result of the superior qualities of Johann's still-gilded shoulder. By the time Johann is up and moving the prosthetic seems firmly anchored. It's yet to respond to any conscious thoughts, but it doesn't quite dangle limply either - it hangs by his side in a neutral position, the claws (which have been safely sheathed in leather) keeping a safe distance from his legs as he moves around. Something about this drives Johann into the academic landscape, and when next he emerges it's with citations from the vaults of the Great Library - where the Verenans keep books that the other Cults might object to, which usually means the Sigmarites but in this case means the Morrites, who take issue not so much with anatomical knowledge as they do with the measures taken to acquire that knowledge in the first place.
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Naming conventions suck, because clearly this library Johann came from just HAD to be named the Great Library. Checking my notes, the Great Library of Verena is the one in Marienburg, which is one of the best libraries in the Old World and also completely locks out anyone from the Empire, so Johann couldn't get in there. So I assume there is another Great Library of Verena but this one is available to the Imperials, so I suppose there is an "Imperial Great Library" variant. What makes this even crazier is this:
Boney said:
You could spent a great deed to get copies made of the key parts of any one Library that the Emperor could browbeat into obedience, including the Public Library of Verena or that of the University of Altdorf, but not the Grand Library of the Cathedral of Sigmar or the Light Order's Library and Repository of Wisdom and Magic.
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So there's a Public Library of Verena, and that means that there is likely a Private Library of Verena. I'm going to assume Johann got the book from the Private Library, though how he got access I'm not sure. Maybe the Gold College has a contract going with the Verenan Cult.

EDIT: I missed that he picked up the book from the "vaults" of the Great Library, so maybe he didn't access a Private Library of Verena and just got into the vaults of the Public Library.
 
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Not to throw any fuel on the sparks that people are very commendably refusing to let catch, but I followed a flight of fancy:

Sitting in a low tree fork and smiling mischievously at the hummingbird investigating the flower in his hair is an Elf, and you very quickly have some uncharitable ideas as to how this unorthodox alliance might have been possible, as the cut of his light green toga bares as much of his arms as its short length does his legs, and his bare feet don't so much hint as they do shout that the toga could be the only garment upon his person. But even as your mundane senses pass judgement, your magical senses tell a very different story - at first you thought him invisible to them, but then you realized that the physical being before you is merely the anchorpoint of a soul that fills the dimensional pocket more thoroughly than the air around you, interwoven in every tree and beast and blade of grass, and the only place he isn't is in a polite distance around your person.

"I," he says, his gaze turning to you, "am Viceroy Cadaeth of what you may know as Oldenlitz, Ambassador to Middenheim on behalf of the Eonir and of Laurelorn."
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It's my supposition that Viceroy Cadaeth would likewise have been quite popular, but that may just be a matter of having forgotten how to even pretend to monosexual.

Codex said:
Naming conventions suck, because clearly this library Johann came from just HAD to be named the Great Library. Checking my notes, the Great Library of Verena is the one in Marienburg, which is one of the best libraries in the Old World and also completely locks out anyone from the Empire, so Johann couldn't get in there. So I assume there is another Great Library of Verena but this one is available to the Imperials, so I suppose there is an "Imperial Great Library" variant. What makes this even crazier is this:

So there's a Public Library of Verena, and that means that there is likely a Private Library of Verena. I'm going to assume Johann got the book from the Private Library, though how he got access I'm not sure. Maybe the Gold College has a contract going with the Verenan Cult.

EDIT: I missed that he picked up the book from the "vaults" of the Great Library, so maybe he didn't access a Private Library of Verena and just got into the vaults of the Public Library.
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The Great Library of Altdorf, sometimes known as the Public Library of Altdorf, is a Verenan institution physically attached but technically independent to the University of Altdorf. Though accessible to the public it has a number of locked annexes that are kept from the public eye for various reasons, usually claimed to be preservation but often more because their topic is the sort of thing the other Cults might disapprove of.
 
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Boney said:
Not to throw any fuel on the sparks that people are very commendably refusing to let catch, but I followed a flight of fancy:



It's my supposition that Viceroy Cadaeth would likewise have been quite popular, but that may just be a matter of having forgotten how to even pretend to monosexual.



The Great Library of Altdorf, sometimes known as the Public Library of Altdorf, is a Verenan institution physically attached but technically independent to the University of Altdorf. Though accessible to the public it has a number of locked annexes that are kept from the public eye for various reasons, usually claimed to be preservation but often more because their topic is the sort of thing the other Cults might disapprove of.
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Oh, I 100% agree about Viceroy Cadaeth possibly being just as popular, I don't mean to imply that Cadaeth's gender is the reason people were attracted to her. I'm equally attracted to either concept myself.
 
Mopman43 said:
In terms of the initial vote, Johann and Pan were neck-and-neck at the top.
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Of course, in multi-round set ups like this, tactical voting before the final round can obscure true preferences before the final round, at which point some voters higher preferences may have been eliminated. Particularly when turn out can also vary significantly and non-uniformly.

Voting system design is hard.
 
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Lupercal said:
As his biggest fangirl I'm aware XD but Johan fell a *lot* by the final vote.
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That was probably down to the date that got picked, IMO. Looking back, I think a big part of why Pan's date came across so much better than Johann's was the focus of it; with Pan the attention was almost entirely on her and Mathilde, but with Johann it was split between the two of them and dwarven traditions and world-building. As a result, Pan and Mathilde's chemistry got put front and centre, while with Johann his chemistry with Mathilde was kind of muted and muddied by everything else going on.
 
Alratan said:
Of course, in multi-round set ups like this, tactical voting before the final round can obscure true preferences before the final round, at which point some voters higher preferences may have been eliminated. Particularly when turn out can also vary significantly and non-uniformly.

Voting system design is hard.
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I don't know about others, but a tie between Johann and Panoramia was actually my final preference. I was consciously going for an OT3. But I wanted it to happen organically, if at all. So in the final vote about polyamory I think either voted against it or recused myself (can't remember which).
 
Codex said:
You're the one who mentioned the "tree spirit thing" (Cadaeth) and the romance vote first, not me. I'm not here to argue or relitigate, just stating that Cadaeth has certain factors involved in the choice to pursue her that I doubt Cython had. Cython made up for it with intellectual attractiveness though (intelligence, power, mystery etc.)
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I'd argue those factors are kind of irrelevant?

This is not an illustrated quest, so whether a character is hot (or for that matter, humanoid) is not all that visible.
 
Rafin said:
I don't know about others, but a tie between Johann and Panoramia was actually my final preference. I was consciously going for an OT3. But I wanted it to happen organically, if at all. So in the final vote about polyamory I think either voted against it or recused myself (can't remember which).
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I would have been fine with a Mathilde/Pan/Johann three way, but I'd probably have tried to angle to get Cython in there too somehow.
 
Similarly, the Dragons are not treated as gods, nor do they demand worship. They are immensely powerful beings, rulers by magical and physical right rather than mysterious divinity. The iconography of the Dragons is common-place and ever-present throughout society, but because they are very real, very present, and very powerful rulers. They are treated by the people with the reverence such beings deserve and speaking ill of them, especially if you are not native to Grand Cathay, is a quick way to get yourself killed.
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This is a distinction that makes perfect sense to a modern, western, culturally monotheist 'God moves in mysterious ways' perspective, but it really wouldn't to anyone from the Old World. The Gods of the setting might not physically manifest very often, but they are real, they are present, and they are powerful, and they're really not big on 'mysterious divinity'. When they have a strong opinion about something, they express themselves quite clearly and unmistakably. If these dragons are immortal like gods, incredibly powerful like gods, and widely revered like gods, you're gonna have to start delving into some pretty heavy metaphysics if you want to make a convincing argument that they aren't actually gods.

The most tumultuous time in Grand Cathay's history came when a combination of invasions of Chaos from the North and the Monkey King from the South, alongside a four-century disappearance of the Dragon Emperor and the Moon Empress, nearly led the Empire to ruin. Then, more than any other time, the natural competition between the Emperor's children reached its peak, and Grand Cathay was essentially divided into warring states. This allowed the Monkey King to take power and claim dominion over the Empire, an act heinous enough to galvanize the warring siblings into once again putting aside their differences to fight for their father's throne. At the key moment, the Emperor and Empress returned and helped to defeat the Monkey King, who fled South. Little is known of him or his fate.
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I had been wondering if they were going to address the old Monkey King lore. It's not the worst way to make it work with the new information, and is probably teasing a future legendary lord. There's a lot of material to work with for this guy.
 
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Boney said:
I had been wondering if they were going to address the old Monkey King lore. It's not the worst way to make it work with the new information, and is probably teasing a future legendary lord. There's a lot of material to work with for this guy.
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Given that they said he fled south, I wonder if that's how they'll add the Hinterlands of Khuresh. We know almost nothing about them but having the Monkey King as one of their lords would do a lot to tie them to the existing world.
 
The Insaniac said:
Given that they said he fled south, I wonder if that's how they'll add the Hinterlands of Khuresh. We know almost nothing about them but having the Monkey King as one of their lords would do a lot to tie them to the existing world.
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Khuresh has even less to go on than Cathay. All we really know is that there's 'Snake Men' and 'Blood Naga Queens' there, and we don't even know if they're some variety of Beastmen or Lizardmen or Vampires or something else entirely. But they've got an entire DLC cycle to go through and GW's approval to push back the edges of the map so who knows at this point.
 
Boney said:
This is a distinction that makes perfect sense to a modern, western, culturally monotheist 'God moves in mysterious ways' perspective, but it really wouldn't to anyone from the Old World. The Gods of the setting might not physically manifest very often, but they are real, they are present, and they are powerful, and they're really not big on 'mysterious divinity'. When they have a strong opinion about something, they express themselves quite clearly and unmistakably. If these dragons are immortal like gods, incredibly powerful like gods, and widely revered like gods, you're gonna have to start delving into some pretty heavy metaphysics if you want to make a convincing argument that they aren't actually gods.
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My sense is that what that passage is meant to indicate is that the Dragon Rulers prefer to promote nationalism over personal worship. They want their people to pledge allegiance to "the Empire, one nation, under the ruling Dragons".
 
Also, that article outright says that Cathay caused the creation of the Great Maw. It was implied that they did it in some lore about the Maw, but they say it outright in there.

It's not a huge surprise, but man. So much shit happened because of that meteor. It really screwed the Ogres up something fierce.
 
Boney said:
This is a distinction that makes perfect sense to a modern, western, culturally monotheist 'God moves in mysterious ways' perspective, but it really wouldn't to anyone from the Old World. The Gods of the setting might not physically manifest very often, but they are real, they are present, and they are powerful, and they're really not big on 'mysterious divinity'. When they have a strong opinion about something, they express themselves quite clearly and unmistakably. If these dragons are immortal like gods, incredibly powerful like gods, and widely revered like gods, you're gonna have to start delving into some pretty heavy metaphysics if you want to make a convincing argument that they aren't actually gods.



I had been wondering if they were going to address the old Monkey King lore. It's not the worst way to make it work with the new information, and is probably teasing a future legendary lord. There's a lot of material to work with for this guy.
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"If I'm not a god, why haven't real gods smote me for blasphemy" - Arguments you can use IRL but probably shouldn't try in WHF
 
Another article, this time going into detail about some units and Miao Ying specifically.

What I want to talk about specifically is that the Terracotta Sentinels are apparently powered by "the Dragon's mastery of the Elemental Winds". Do they mean the WInds of Magic, or do is it something else more directly correlating with Wu Xing? I'm very curious about this, because unlike the Tomb Kings they don't apparently use the souls of the dead to power their constructs. They apparently use magic. TBF, it's Dragon Magic, so probably not super replicable.
 
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