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I don't think that's any more likely than the Empire responding to the Great War Against Chaos by taking Erengrad.
I'm not saying its likely, but it's a thought in the back of the mind of the empire, just like its a thought in the back of their Nabours

They have skirmishes and gone to war, and likely will in the future. not saying peace and working together is not worth trying or promoting.

but no nation fully trusts the other in this setting. (except maybe the empire and dwarfs, and even then there has been a few tiffs.)
 
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I think that clan Pestilens was influenced by Nurgle, but they just created a syncretic facet of the Horned Rat based on Nurglite beliefs. They still follow the Horned Rat, but as far as the rest of the Skaven are concerned they are dangerous heretics. IMO that's why the Horned Rat never called for the extermination of clan Pestilens, because they still fundamentally worship Him.
 
I'm not saying its likely, but it's a thought in the back of the mind of the empire, just like its a thought in the back of their Nabours

They have skirmishes and gone to war, and likely will in the future. not saying peace and working together is not worth trying or promoting.

but no nation fully trusts the other in this setting. (except maybe the empire and dwarfs, and even then there has been a few tiffs.)

It should be noted that while killing the skaven may be a load off much of the population of the old world, one less monster in the dark it does not actually do anything for the warrior elites, the people setting policy. There is no land to conquer in the underempire, no gold to claim just poisoned warpstone. It would be rally damn hard to mobilize an army against the Skaven unless they attacked first.
 
again, im not saying that the human nations never do good by each other, that would be a lie.

but a total war with the skaven would require the empire to really let their guard down and hope that the others won't be opportunities. because regardless of the outcome, the empire as a whole will be a lot weaker than its been for a long time after, not just one province, but all of them.

that's a hard sell, even at the best of times.
 
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Have we considered that rather than Clan Pestilens being Nurgle trying to gain power in the Skaven, it's the Great Horned One trying to establish ties with Nurgle instead?

After all, in End Times (know we had to acknowledge it, but still), the Horned One became the fifth Chaos God, and in Age of Sigmar full on replaces Slaanesh. Skaven have always been very similar to Chaos anyway, straight to the point of having demons as well.

Clan Pestilens may just be a diplomatic move. The Great Horned One passing Nurgle a note going "I think you're really neat, friends?"

The amazing thing is ... it seems to have worked? Say what you want, if any species would be susceptible to wide spread disease/virus/plagues it should be the Skaven (what with their high numbers and low hygiene/nutrition)... and yet it doesn't seem like that's a thing they worry about outside of conflicts with Clan Pestilens.
 
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It is also possible that the skaven simply don't want to push the Empire's back up against the wall. They have seen that if humans are pushed too far then you get absolute monsters like Van Hal. And imagine if in a total war some powerful Lord Magister lost everything they valued to the war... Especially one with sufficient knowledge to really create some true weapons of mass destruction. Mathilde alone could possibly tear through massive portions of skaven territory and possibly turn into a long lived and truly horrible enemy. And she is not even the worst of the possible Magisters to have fall into the usage of dhar...

It is reasonably likely that the skaven don't actively push the humans too far because in the past when they have, they create singular humans that cause massive damage to the skaven and their longer term plans. That could also be why they feel more comfortable actively warring against the dwarves, since dwarves are far less likely/far less capable of using forbidden knowledge to go on an absolute rampage. So the war against the dwarves is actually society vs. society whereas any war against the humans inevitably creates some monstrous human villain or hero that has monstrous personal power that the skaven have no real answer for.
 
Considering the Conspiracy of Silence only seems to extend to the Empire and basically all the neighbors are in the know, including close allies. I think the main reason is probably the uniquely prominent role and keystones of the Cult of Sigmar - the existence of the Underempire could easily trigger a forever-war(or rather, endless crusades against an enemy they cannot actually break) if its presence was more widely known.

At least, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Cult of Sigmar(the faithful, not necessarily the organization) would find it a religious imperative to destroy an organized empire of beastmen beneath the land that Sigmar claimed, which are also eternal foes of the dwarves.
This is not a state of events favorable to either the Empire or the Underempire, so with the Conspiracy, such a conflict is reduced to skirmishes. Neither of them can actually hold each other's territories successfully, they got nothing to gain but single clash-level loot, which is the same stuff they can get in a skirmish anyway.

Skaven would rather war on Skaven, and even wars between Imperial provinces are better off. Nobody wants a crusade being rallied up by zealots every few decades to have another go, and it is dubious that even the entire Empire waging war on the Underempire would gather more than a local response from the Skaven - the clans based away from the Empire have more to gain preying on their rivals than helping.
 
Maybe self preservation?
it doesn't have to be during the attack as well.

they can totally help with good intentions during the attack.

its just that after, they could have totally realised that they could just... not leave. it's not like the locals can stop you after all that fighting.

again, this is very much 'worst case/most asshole case'

but its the type of thing that can/did happen through history.
 
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[X] [THOREK] Both

[X] [ARM] Johann

Cant remember if I voted, probably didn't since I agree with the leading votes but might as well I guess.

I wonder if the arm is better for punching than his current arms are, my instincts say yes since claws are always better, but if they weren't designed for that then who knows.
 
So I thought it would be fun to go through all the different times Morghur the Shadowgave "died". So here's a list:

1. Ariel first senses Morghur's corruption and sends several scouts to check him out. None of them come back. She decides if she wants something done right, she would have to do it herself, so she spirit projects herself to where Morghur was and laughs at how pathetic of a creature he was. She released cleansing flame on him and left, thinking the job was done. Of course, she underestimated his regeneration, so it didn't actually "kill" him. This starts Morghur's obsession with Ariel and Athel Loren.

2. Two centuries later, Morghur returns, attacking Athel Loren with a large warherd. The Asrai didn't notice him because they were too buys engaging in blood sport with their "Wild Hunts", not only were they slaughtering the humans and greenskins of Bretonnia, but they delighted in manipulating them to fight each other. Morghur charged into Athel Loren and overwhelmed their forces until he was captured and held down by the Treeman Ancient Coedill. Ariel decided she wouldn't make the same mistake again and summoned the power of the Forest to obliterate Morghur. Unfortunately Morghur's corruption transfers to a portion of the Forest and the Witherhold is never the same again, becoming a corrupted patch of forest ever since. Coedill was also most likely corrupted, as he betrayed and attacked the Elves soon afterwards and was sealed in the Wildwood as a result.

3. Morghur is reborn a while later and instead of going for Athel Loren, he attacks Silverspire in Bretonnian land. Ariel sense that it's a place of great importance and its water feeds Athel Loren, so Orion goes out to hunt Morghur for her with his Wild Hunt. He slaughters a bunch of humans on his path but who cares they're human, he find Morghur and tears him limb from limb. He also senses a familiar presence in the Silverspire...

4. Morghur is reborn again a while later and attacks Silverspire again. This time, Orion didn't lead the Asrai host, which is a good thing because Bretonnia is actually a thing by this point and the Asrai actually had to cooperate with Gilles le Briton's army to defeat Morghur. Gilles' son comes over to the Asrai to form a treaty with them for peaceful contact. Ariel agrees because she believes they'll be a decent shield againt Morghur, Orion is sulky and tells her he won't stop hunting them down during the Wild Hunt. She smiles and tells him he can still do that, they're just humans after all. Lady of the Lake worship spreads around Bretonnia. To those not catching the hints, she's what's inside Silverspire.

5. A lot of things happen between the previous incarnation of Morghur and this one. To make a long story short, Ariel gets super corrupted as she starts pursuing Dark Magic due to a tragic (and near comical) series of events that went in just the right way resulting in Ariel getting Dark Magic Lore from Morathi. She grows more vengeful and unstable and decides she'll consume Morghur to grow more powerful and avenge all the wrongs done to her and Athel Loren. She successfully captures Morghur, brings him to the Oak of Ages and is about to consume him when Durthu, one of the last remaining Treeman Ancients, senses what's happening. He rushes to the Oak of Ages and kills Morghur before the ritual finishes. Ariel gets mad at him and banishes him. She is later purified when Adanhu, another Treeman Ancient, sacrifices himself by absorbing the taint from her soul. He dies and Ariel finds out how horrible the things she did were, so she seals herself in the Oak.

6. Ariel leave the Oak three centuries after she sealed herself in there when she senses Morghur is back. The entirety of Athel Loren unites to defeat Morghur's Beastherd in the Forest of Arden around 2000 IC, with Orion and his Wild Hunt, Ariel, the Sisters of Twilight and more. The one to deal the finishing blow, with an arrow straight through the eye to the skull, is none other than Scarloc.

7. The Battle of Arden. Already discussed at length. In canon Glade Lord Araloth is the one who kills him with sap from the Oak of Ages, don't know if it's the same in DL.

So, final count and list of those who "killed" Morghur:

1.Mage Queen Ariel
2.Treeman Ancient Coedill and Mage Queen Ariel
3.Orion and the Wild Hunt
4.Gilles le Briton's host and Athel Loren
5.Treeman Ancient Durthu (although Morghur was bound by Ariel at the time)
6.Athel Loren's forces. Finishing shot by Scarloc
7.Glade Lord Araloth and his forces from Athel Loren. Bretonnia and Asur get an assist credit in DL
 
Two centuries later, Morghur returns, attacking Athel Loren with a large warherd. The Asrai didn't notice him because they were too buys engaging in blood sport with their "Wild Hunts",
Have I mentioned how much I hate how dirty the Wood Elves got done?

Cause I really hate how dirty the Wood Elves got done.
 
Have I mentioned how much I hate how dirty the Wood Elves got done?

Cause I really hate how dirty the Wood Elves got done.
I mean, It was actually one of the most entertaining Army Books that I've read imo, but I get what you mean. I had no preconceptions or ideas about what they used to be like or what I wanted them to be, and I knew that they were always a bit... murdery. So it didn't surprise me that they apparently engaged in blood sports.

But yeah sometimes it feels like they're less of a "Neutral" or "Morally Grey" faction and more of a "they flip flop between Genuinely Evil and They're Selfish but Important for the Survival of the Planet". Very rarely have I thought to myself "oh that's nice of them". I think only very early on with Durthu did I think that, but then he got dark and bitter like everybody else in the realm of the Asrai.
 
I mean, It was actually one of the most entertaining Army Books that I've read imo, but I get what you mean. I had no preconceptions or ideas about what they used to be like or what I wanted them to be, and I knew that they were always a bit... murdery. So it didn't surprise me that they apparently engaged in blood sports.

But yeah sometimes it feels like they're less of a "Neutral" or "Morally Grey" faction and more of a "they flip flop between Genuinely Evil and They're Selfish but Important for the Survival of the Planet". Very rarely have I thought to myself "oh that's nice of them". I think only very early on with Durthu did I think that, but then he got dark and bitter like everybody else in the realm of the Asrai.
Don't get me wrong, there's lots of the 8E Army Book I like, but bluntly I'm starting to get real fucking suspicious of "Faction with women having power as a, perhaps even the, faction leader are shifty at best and vile at worst" and, for the Wood Elves especially, "oh look at these violent environmentalists" warmed over and regurgitated.
 
Don't get me wrong, there's lots of the 8E Army Book I like, but bluntly I'm starting to get real fucking suspicious of "Faction with women having power as a, perhaps even the, faction leader are shifty at best and vile at worst" and, for the Wood Elves especially, "oh look at these violent environmentalists" warmed over and regurgitated.
Ah, I get what you mean. It hasn't escaped my notice that three times now the same myth of "Female god attempts to seduce male god, fails and goes into a rage" happens in the Elven pantheon. Ereth Khial with Asuryan, Anath Raema with Kurnous and Atharti with Khaine. I even blinked in surprise when the Wood Elf book says this:

"Unlike the Elves of Ulthuan, and indeed much of the known world, the Wood Elves make no distinction between male and female when it comes to rank and duty, whether those responsibilities find their calling in war or peace. In the noble houses of Athel Loren, the daughter is as likely to inherit the family tide and rank as the son."

Are they implying that in Ulthuan, daughters are less likely to inherit the family title? That... makes no sense to me.
 
I mean, what were you expecting from the company that decided that the leader of canonanically unrepentant slavers and torturers was the One True King?
 
The 7th edition Beastman book is exhausting. I've been reading through the unbearable monotony to absorb the information and trying to spice things up by thinking of possible Omake ideas that could be inspired by the book to make things more interesting.

The only thing I got was self projecting onto Boris Todbringer as a repressed gay man who needs to find a healthier coping mechanism than chasing down a half naked man through the forests. Not sure how I would make an omake of that when we haven't even met the guy. Doesn't seem relevant.
 
End times :facepalm:

They just took a hammer to the setting.
:jackiechan:
The fundamental idea for end times was actually pretty cool. Move the setting forward and all (and I hear Age of Sigmar is good too).

Just... the execution.
The only thing I got was self projecting onto Boris Todbringer as a repressed gay man who needs to find a healthier coping mechanism than chasing down a half naked man through the forests. Not sure how I would make an omake of that when we haven't even met the guy. Doesn't seem relevant.
I'm gonna level with you, I really want an omake of Boris Todbringer as a repressed gay man with the unhealthy coping mechanism of chasing down half naked men through the forest.
 
The only thing I got was self projecting onto Boris Todbringer as a repressed gay man who needs to find a healthier coping mechanism than chasing down a half naked man through the forests. Not sure how I would make an omake of that when we haven't even met the guy. Doesn't seem relevant.
It doesn't need to be relevant, only entertaining to read/write🙂

I'm gonna level with you, I really want an omake of Boris Todbringer as a repressed gay man with the unhealthy coping mechanism of chasing down half naked men through the forest.
Same!:V
 
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