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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
This is not the eternal and never-changing form of WEB-MAT actions for the rest of eternity. This might not even be how it will be next turn.
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This wasn't at all clear to me and I think that's my fault. I thought that this was the WEB-MAT you settled on for at least until something major shakes it up and it jarred me.

Anyway, I was defending Jyn because he was pretty much saying the type of stuff I was thinking, so it felt like by dismissing those statements as munchkining you were dismissing the argument as a whole. But yeah, I get how that can feel like people ganging up on you and will try to not do that in the future.
 
DragonParadox said:
To be honest I am not sure we can keep Johann busy enough to justify his presence in Web Mat given that his primary means of research is rubbing his brain on the weird magic. Waystones are not safe for brain rubbing and are not likely to get any more so.
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He can help with the rest of the backlog. We're far from being backlog free and we'll probably gain more by the time we clear the current batch.
 
picklepikkl said:
OK, so next turn and the turn after we should use all three of our WEBMAT actions, if we don't this turn. And it sounds like hiring Hugo Bann is a bad idea until we have a specific idea for what to do with him.
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For the record I do have a specific idea of what to with him: windherding enchantments. The impression I get from reading the thread is that there is no real support for taking it slowly with windherding, all the suggestions seem to be enchanted artifacts with interacting parts that aim to push the bounds of what windherding can do, and the issue with that is that it needs a skilled enchanter. Enter Hugo Bann an extremely skilled enchanter we can put an action on windherding enchantments with each turn. The alternative is either shelling out a ton of college favour repeatedly or getting our existing employees to take enchanting courses then praying that 6 months training is sufficient for doing something we've never done before that has a high risk of creating dhar if either party messes up even slightly.

That said I'm ok with putting him off for now and since Boney has confirmed that putting Egrimm on an artifact won't mean just shoving the artifact in his hands telling him to figure it out and coming back 6 months later but will actually involve Mathilde colaborating with him, my main reason for disliking that action is gone so:

[X] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
[x] Plan Windherding: Crawl now, Run next turn
 
Codex said:
Now that the Library action has been clarified, my only remaining objection to the don't ignore Egrimm plan is only integrating with Cityborn culture and no Forestborn culture. It doesn't feel right for Mathilde, who was born a Peasant and had a natural ability to navigate their ranks, to ignore the Forestborn in favor of the Cityborn. I'm quite certain that the Forestborn are not "peasants" in the same sense as the Empire, and they probably aren't living in a stratification that severe, but it still doesn't feel quite right.
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Appart from all the arguments already presented, don't the city born have more political power? If it's the case it would make sense for Mathilde to see them first. And it's not like we're not going to explore the forest born's culture in 2 turns.


[X] Plan Don't Ignore Engrim
[X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture
 
Given the clarification that there's no point in waiting for more libraries on the Max collation action, I feel quite strongly that we should be doing that ASAP over writing another paper.
 
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    • To save my life
    I slew a zombie with a knife
    To defend my lord
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    I slew a castle with an army
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    Start slowly
    Like an avalanche

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    Woke up with a poem in my head. Which is weird, because I don't actually do poetry.

    It's a little contrived in places (seriously, duty and army? Gods I'm such a hack), but otherwise I think it came out pretty well. I also like the way it leans into the four-act structure/kishotenketsu, with each rhyming couplet matching one of the acts, which is totally a thing I did on purpose and not something I only noticed after I finished writing it.
     
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    • [X] Plan Full Cultural Immersion 2.0
    [X] Plan WEB-MAT & Culture

    The first is my prefered plan as I like the overall arch of it, as Mathilde getting to know this place and it's people seems like it sets us up considerably better than any alternative route as it'll provide the social, cultural and intellectual understanding that we can use to take best advantage of their resources. It also enables us to better understand the social dynamics at play and how it can either hinder us or help us, and set us up for next turn to do recruitment and development of WEB-MAT. It also uses the Night Prowler part of the coin very creatively, and it'd be a great thing to read.

    The second one is my favoured plan of the ones likely to win, as it has two cultural actions within it.
     
    Deathbybunnies said:
    Given the clarification that there's no point in waiting for more libraries on the Max collation action, I feel quite strongly that we should be doing that ASAP over writing another paper.
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    I agree and I am sorry for screwing things up for Plan WEBMAT and Culture; @Shard, it turns out I was wrong and you should swap Max's action back.

    Not going to vote for Don't Ignore Engrim, as much as it pains me, because I really do think that it's important to do both cultural immersion actions from a practical perspective: cultural immersion is what we need to learn Yen-Eltharin and start developing our Eonir Diplomacy skill, neither of which are things we can just learn from tutors. Given that we chose to get sponsored by these people, we need to put in the legwork to get to know them.
     
    BoneyM said:
    Johann, Magister of the Gold Order

    Mission: ???
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    Looking at the Dramatis Personae, I realised we don't know what Johann actually wants to do. I know he wanted to decode the secrets of Skaven engineering, but that project got taken over by his own Patriarch. So what does he want to do now? Does he even know himself? If we know what he actually wants to do, that might help us find jobs for him. To be honest, I'm kinda surprised he didn't leave K8P to join the Skaven project back in Altdorf.

    Max is simple; he wants to combine dwarven blacksmithing techniques with gold magic, and he's happy to help us with our own research (note: don't forget to build a forge in Waystone HQ) (Note number 2: I wonder if he'll be interested in elven blacksmithing techniques? They are not as famous as dwarven, but it's a new branch of inquiry). Egrimm wants to be free of Light order politicking and feel like he's actually contributing towards something worthwhile. But Johann is a big old mystery box, and that's why I think we should try to social him soon, get a feel for where he is in his life at the moment. Because we don't want to be surprised if he feels WEB-MAT isn't the right place for him right now.
     
    Codex said:
    The "peasant" argument is simply me saying that Mathilde is not the type of person who would ignore the lower classes in favor of the higher classes, especially since that could very much be a statement that she unwillingly makes by integrating only with cityborn culture. I'm pretty sure Mathilde would never think of the Forestborn as peasants anyway.
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    Accepting the "peasant" argument on it's face, Mathilde, being an intelligent person, is exactly the sort of person to focus on the higher classes because they are the ones with the most power and who will have the most influence on the success or failure of the project. Modern sensibilities about the superior righteousness of peasants do not translate into superior relevance.

    If I accepted the comparison to peasants as basically correct, that is.

    I expect Plan WEB-MAT & Culture will swap the Max action soon, but I'll wait and see.
    Why? Because the results from the AV experiment won't influence our bigger plans next turn, while the results from the exploration actions might, so it makes more sense to explore this turn and do AV next turn, than the reverse.
     
    I think that next social turn unless something really interesting and unique shows up we should just have an all elf and wizard turn. Talk to the elves to find out more about the place we find ourselves in and talk to the Web-Mat wizards to figure out why they are here, I mean specifically what do they hope to get out of this. I mean we can't keep fobbing off out backlog to Web-Mat even if they do get CF from the papers they might produce
     
    Klaus said:
    Accepting the "peasant" argument on it's face, Mathilde, being an intelligent person, is exactly the sort of person to focus on the higher classes because they are the ones with the most power and who will have the most influence on the success or failure of the project. Modern sensibilities about the superior righteousness of peasants do not translate into superior relevance.

    If I accepted the comparison to peasants as basically correct, that is.

    I expect Plan WEB-MAT & Culture will swap the Max action soon, but I'll wait and see.
    Why? Because the results from the AV experiment won't influence our bigger plans next turn, while the results from the exploration actions might, so it makes more sense to explore this turn and do AV next turn, than the reverse.
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    Never once have I ever mentioned the righteousness of peasants.

    It is quite unpleasant when you deign to assign additional meanings to my words to undermine my position.
     
    Staff Notice - Do not use the Funny reaction to demean other posters.
    Johann will be very useful if we need to go anyplace dangerous. Egrimm is good, but Johann is tough and fast enough to keep up with us.
     
    Klaus said:
    Johann will be very useful if we need to go anyplace dangerous. Egrimm is good, but Johann is tough and fast enough to keep up with us.
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    Using a trained magister of the Gold Order as a glorified bodyguard does not seem like a good idea to me. I mean yeah he is fast, bot so would anyone else we conjured a shadow horse for. We could have a guard of elves, we could have forest spirits. This is not K8P where you have to promise the local dwarfs beer out of a gold encrusted orc skull to get them on the magic horse. And yeah a normal shadow horse does not go as fast as ours, but it is not what I would call slow. The same goes for that gyro we got.

    I think that we should be able to justify Johann's skills as a wizard to be part of the wizard college branch.
     
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    DragonParadox said:
    Using a trained magister of the Gold Order as a glorified bodyguard does not seem like a good idea to me. I mean yeah he is fast, bot so would anyone else we conjured a shadow horse for. We could have a guard to elves, we could have forest spirits. This is not K8P where you have to promise the local dwarfs bear out of a gold encrusted orc skull to get them on the magic horse. and yeah a normal shadow horse does not go as fast as ours, but it is not what I would call slow. The same goes for that gyro we got.

    I think that we should be able to justify Johann's skills as a wizard to be part of the wizard college branch.
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    I would see him as being a good 'head of exploring' he is good at going places and looking for stuff, even without Tale of gold

    so if we need to find Waystone or lost tomes to something. He would be good for that.

    though overall I agree that hiring both gold boys (at least at this point in the development of WEB-MAT) was a mistake.

    it's going to be really hard to justify WEB-MAT core goals if we can't at some point get a runesmith and priest on board (not Waystones, WEB-MAT.)
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Using a trained magister of the Gold Order as a glorified bodyguard does not seem like a good idea to me. I mean yeah he is fast, bot so would anyone else we conjured a shadow horse for. We could have a guard of elves, we could have forest spirits. This is not K8P where you have to promise the local dwarfs beer out of a gold encrusted orc skull to get them on the magic horse. And yeah a normal shadow horse does not go as fast as ours, but it is not what I would call slow. The same goes for that gyro we got.

    I think that we should be able to justify Johann's skills as a wizard to be part of the wizard college branch.
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    Yeah. We can. Because while WEB-MAT's first forray is Waystones, its not the only one it will ever do, and it can do side research simultaneously. I kinda feel like trying to kick Johann off when we already have him in is also weird lmao.

    We've got enough research backlog he can help with. Stop focusing so much on the Waystones is a weird take, but in this case valid and applicable because its like you forgot they are not really the only reason we founded the side-branch in the first place.

    EDIT: Unless i am somehow misreading that statement. That last sentence can be taken two ways.
     
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