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Cythons such a flatterer. Lets add that to our titles: Mathilde Weber: Lady Magister, Adequate Ulgu Attuner
To them that probably really is quite a complement. I suspect their praise works a lot like dwarven praise with younger dwarves aka wratch everything up about a half-dozen notches and you'll get what they actually mean by it.

I suspect we were being judged like young dragons for that line, and "adequately attuned to our wind" is probably high praise.
 
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Does anyone know where to find Boney's napkin math that broke down the number of total Wizards in the Empire? Can't find it, would appreciate some hints/help.
My back-of-the-envelope and currently unofficial breakdown is:

250 Minor Talents, Sealed, and Perpetual Apprentices
200 Apprentices
100 Journeymen, 25 Battle Wizards
50 Magisters, 5 Elite Battle Wizards
4 Wizard Lords, 1 'Graduated' Battle Wizard
1 Patriarch
That was an approximation of a single College, so multiply by eight.
 
Thank you @ReImagined that was exactly what I was looking for. Though I wouldn't mind if Boney weighed in an updated total, I'm just wondering what's the estimated total wizard population including all colleges, Does it break 10k?

Also voting:

[] picklepikkl

Switching:

[X] The Eonir of Laurelorn: Esoteric Dwarven (150 gc), Beastmen: Extensive Imperial, Extensive and Antiquarian Dwarven (300 gc), Waystones and Henges: Esoteric Imperial (150 gc and 4 CF)
 
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While we're talking about the matter, it occurs to me to ask:

Considering just how much Dwarves seem to highlight their ancestor gods for changes and new inventions, specifically, If Panoramia does end up being right and manage to improve the dwarven livelihoods by improving their diet... Would that make her a minor ancestor goddess of agriculture?

No. The term ancestor god has two parts to it, one of them is god yes, bu the other is ancestor. In order to be someone's ancestor you have to be related to them by blood. Pan is part of another species.
 
No, that's not what I mean in the slightest.

I mean more like Dwarves looking at the person who's responsible for massive advances in food quality and categorizing her "that human ancestor." Not in the sense of worshiping revering her, but in the sense of contextualizing her in the same way they'd see some other clan's personal ancestor god. "Yup, that's an Ancestor. Not our clan's Ancestor, but definitely someone who will be held in high regard by someone."

The human ancestor would be an ancestor of humans. I feel like you are divesting that term of meaning. It does not just mean dwarfs worship you, it means you are supposed to be related to the people who are worshiping you however distantly.
 
Thank you @ReImagined that was exactly what I was looking for. Though I wouldn't mind if Boney weighed in an updated total, I'm just wondering what's the estimated total wizard population including all colleges, Does it break 10k?
Multiplying those numbers by 8 nets us about 5k, which is also the same breakdown Mathilde gives to Wilhelmina in the passage @henkalv linked.
Specifically:
"About four hundred fully-qualified Magisters or higher. If you include everyone in the Colleges - Apprentices, Journeyman, Perpetuals, Sealed, Minor Talents, everyone - maybe five thousand total.
 
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I think people are putting to much stock Into the 'bad diet' theory.

a bad national diet makes things Like depression worse or more likely. but the dwarfs are depressed for very real reasons.

would an improved diet significantly help? Yes

But it's not going to be a eureka! Discovery.
 
I think people are putting to much stock Into the 'bad diet' theory.

a bad national diet makes things Like depression worse or more likely. but the dwarfs are depressed for very real reasons.

would an improved diet significantly help? Yes

But it's not going to be a eureka! Discovery.

It could also be utterly irrelevant, these are the random musings of one Jade (all but) Magister. She has not even done any research into the matter . Right now Panoramia talking bout dwarf diet is every bit as credibile as Mathilde one year ago talking about Ulgu tongs. It is an idea that could have some merit... but it could also hit a brick wall at the slightest study into the matter.
 
Considering just how much Dwarves seem to highlight their ancestor gods for changes and new inventions, specifically, If Panoramia does end up being right and manage to improve the dwarven livelihoods by improving their diet... Would that make her a minor ancestor goddess of agriculture? (At least, in Dwarven eyes. Because that seems like a feat worthy of a clan founder.)
Non because ancestor is an important word in ancestor god.
To them that probably really is quite a complement. I suspect their praise works a lot like dwarven praise with younger dwarves aka wratch everything up about a half-dozen notches and you'll get what they actually mean by it.

I suspect we were being judged like young dragons for that line, and "adequately attuned to our wind" is probably high praise.
Oh I know, Dragons are arrogant and proud creatures and judging by how Cython was unwilling to just ask for library books, I assume a refusal to look weak or that Mathilde had some power over him... That we're adequate by his standards says a lot.
 
We can't into space because there's a giant evil radioactive death moon in the way.
The moon is made out of warpstone, so there's a solution to that problem.

Now, you might think that detonating a moonsized object close to a planet is the kind of dumb decision that makes sure that no one gets to make a dumb decision ever again, but there's a reason why we build the spacecraft first.
 
On a scale of 1-10, how bad would it be to co-author a paper on theology with Cython?

On the one hand, shared writer credit with a dragon.

On the other, extreme heresy.
I think the level of heresy would depend on the cult.

the Verenans approve of debate, even if they judge that you are wrong, you have the right to be wrong.

I don't think the Ranaldans would be against the idea that Ranald has different forms... it's Ranald of course he has fake identities.

Taal is a coin flip, on one had the cult is known to come down hard on other nature cults if they can get away with it. On the other hand 'it's all Taal' might be a argument that they like, if only as an excuse to call other nature cults hereatics.

The cult of Sigmar might bloodily love it: Sigmar is more like the Ancestor gods, and Cython'a theory does conceded that 'Ascended' gods might be the exception. The cult of Sigmar love it when Sigmar is implied to be an exception if that exception can let them say 'Sigmar is the only real human god, the rest are just reskinned elf gods!'
 
The moon is made out of warpstone, so there's a solution to that problem.

Now, you might think that detonating a moonsized object close to a planet is the kind of dumb decision that makes sure that no one gets to make a dumb decision ever again, but there's a reason why we build the spacecraft first.
You're not thinking big enough, Omegahugger. If we detonate just part of the moon at a time, we don't have a problem, we have an engine. The second biggest potential engine in the solar system, no less, so it should be a decent proof of concept for making use of the sun :V.
 
Cython is relatively new to the Old World, and until recently their only neighbours were Skaven and greenskins. There's not a lot of Halflings running around Naggaroth or Araby.
They've been in Araby centuries ago though and I at least thought they've spent at least a few decades looking into non-Elven gods.

I guess I just expected them to be more focused and driven regarding their hobby than they actually are. In a way it makes sense though. Hysh can have a bend that is more philosophical than empirical.
If he brings it up Mathilde will run with it, but she's aware that the Draconic schism is a minefield and she's not gonna blithely wander into it. She's seen Cython when they're mad and it's her responsibility to avoid that happening again.
So it won't be a Social option in the future?
Liking the underground is probably a random feature that comes about from them somewhat metaphorically, somewhat not metaphorically stone. Not a feature that the Old Ones intended to add.
If the Old Ones didn't put in the metaphorical stone nature, I'm curious where it came from. If it started socially then the Dwarven culture is to blame for needing the Rites of Valaya in the first place.
 
I think you are trying to sneak a HUMAN NONDWARF in to being a DWARF god. I am not sure why you are trying to do that but It is not something that should be done since only prior example of doing something remoteably simliar is Hashut.

Mathilde's is probably the closest a human can get to being considered divine and even then it'd be more of an Living Ancestor sort of deal except instead of actual ancestry the link is Mathilde saving boatloads of Dawi repeatedly.
 
You're not thinking big enough, Omegahugger. If we detonate just part of the moon at a time, we don't have a problem, we have an engine. The second biggest potential engine in the solar system, no less, so it should be a decent proof of concept for making use of the sun :V.
Great idea!

We don't know yet if it possible to use the Second Secret on just part of the Dhar construct, but that's where experimentation and practise comes in!
 
That seems like a perfectly valid primary source to me.

To quote Mathilde when she dropped Queekish off-

"My sources are primary."

And honestly I think as long as we didn't touch human gods there wouldn't be much blowback that we couldn't run away from. I think of it like the dwarven equivalent of the colleges discovering we read the Liber Mortis. ;)

But honestly, there is apparently a LOT more unknowns than knowns regarding the gods, and I think some epistemic modesty from the thread at large is in order. We don't know Hashut *isn't* a dwarf. We don't know if the ancestor gods were a rebellion, a military expedition, or refugees from a hold already fallen. We don't know what happened to the first generation (s?) of human gods, or what the difference is between a minor god and a major one.

I've tried to keep my phrasing as speculative, and it's a bit annoying that it's largely been met with opinion stated as flat fact. It's a style of Internet arguing that I kinda hate because the only thing it does is escalate.

Seeing this with the Dwarf diet thing too. We don't actually know what the root cause of the 'malaise', lowered sexual drive, and early deaths are, so statements about it being obviously psychological rather than physical are just priveldging a grey wizard's viewpoint (trained in psychology) over a jade wizard's (trained in husbandry and nutrition). I think the old saying about looking for keys under a streetlight is applicable.

So- I *think* Cython is on to something, and it's thesis of rebellion fits well with what we know of Grimmnir killing the dragon, and the utter lack of any information of times prior. (Almost like it was deliberately erased.) I also strongly think that the differences between the domains of the gods worshipped by the dwarves and those worshipped by other species imply an earlier dwarven pantheon.

I think, to a lesser extent, that the idea of an abandoned pantheon coming back as horrific parodies of themselves fits with the Warhammer aesthetic, and gives us answers to two open questions- "why is Hashut different?" and "what is Gor-dum?" with a single move, making it somewhat simpler than other possibilities.

I'm open to the idea that there are non-dwarfs being worshipped as ancestors, because worship done properly to a dwarf is worship of ancestors, and so the idea of a separate non-ancestor god might get blurred away by cultural pressure.

They've been in Araby centuries ago though and I at least thought they've spent at least a few decades looking into non-Elven gods.

I guess I just expected them to be more focused and driven regarding their hobby than they actually are. In a way it makes sense though. Hysh can have a bend that is more philosophical than empirical.

I think you are greatly underestimating the difficulty a dragon would have in just talking to non-dragons. The likelihood is that they either immediately attack, or more likely, flee in terror. How would cython have gone about buying books or holding conversations?
 
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I think, to a lesser extent, that the idea of an abandoned pantheon coming back as horrific parodies of themselves fits with the Warhammer aesthetic, and gives us answers to two open questions- "why is Hashut different?" and "what is Gor-dum?" with a single move, making it somewhat simpler than other possibilities.
We already know what Gor-Dum is though. It's Morghur. Why the hell Karak Dum are somehow linked to him we don't know, but I don't see how the idea you've presented really relates to that.
 
We already know what Gor-Dum is though. It's Morghur. Why the hell Karak Dum are somehow linked to him we don't know, but I don't see how the idea you've presented really relates to that.

And what is Morghur? Where did it come from, and why is it not the same sort of thing as other demons of the chaos gods?

I feel like giving it a different name does not solve the questions around it's behavior and origins.
 
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