Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
The arguments for this one seem better.
The arguments for this one seem better.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I really think the Wang are the best for us and the fief but, after reading some arguments about the Central Valley's views on security, and how working with them and the Ith-ai might spill over to the summit, I think it's reasonable to work with them. Plus, got hit with the "it works with the narrative" live and ughhh I'm weak to that.
So I'll be approval voting for now
[] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I just hope this isn't related to what I think it is, otherwise I'm going to regret this vote.
Edit: Nvm. Mountain Halls all the waaaaaay. And here's why:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
So I'll be approval voting for now
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I just hope this isn't related to what I think it is, otherwise I'm going to regret this vote.
Edit: Nvm. Mountain Halls all the waaaaaay. And here's why:
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!
Now, I apologize for the double post, but referencing three different things in the same reply didn't sit well with me. Okay, so, regarding the vote! Managed to find the previous action descriptions for the two projects. Now, these are from TURN 13, so they might change, but looking at the...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
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Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
And now we're tied 
. Let the war begin anew!!!
. Let the war begin anew!!!- Location
- Earth
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Good neighbours and all that. Maybe they'll build is cool stuff
Good neighbours and all that. Maybe they'll build is cool stuff
- Location
- France
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
since I'm fine with both options, I'm going to vote for character screen time. And the best option to get more Diao Hualing is Garden of Sinners.
Sooooo ....
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
(the Wang are still cooler!)
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Garden of Sinners/Su Ling plotline is more interesting to me personally, and we have in general easier ins with the Wang than the Diao, by virtue of proximity and shared interests.
Best to capitalise on our good work in the Central Valley like Shu Yue said, to turn this crack in their armour into a doorway for further relations.
Garden of Sinners/Su Ling plotline is more interesting to me personally, and we have in general easier ins with the Wang than the Diao, by virtue of proximity and shared interests.
Best to capitalise on our good work in the Central Valley like Shu Yue said, to turn this crack in their armour into a doorway for further relations.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
EDIT: The arguments on both sides are just too convincing for my small brain to just pick one.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
EDIT: The arguments on both sides are just too convincing for my small brain to just pick one.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
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Fuck it, I'm strangling my inner powergamer and going for the option that makes more narrative sense. I'm changing my vote to
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Edit: The hell is a meow supposed to be? o.0
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Edit: The hell is a meow supposed to be? o.0
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Come to think of it, mulling over this lesson on grudges from Shu Yue has me looking at this vote in a new light. Everybody had grudges, obviously, that was kind of the point of the lesson. But not everybody centers their grudges in quite the same way, and I think it would be neat if we walked forwards with a subject that's particularly resonant with grudges.
The Diao are a pretty remarkable case, as far as grudges go. They hold a grudge against the Hui(who doesn't). They begrudge their heritage. A grudge against their raising to Counts. They resent being compared to their peers. They resent not being compared to their peers. They hold a grudge against both the old and the new, because both resonate as a challenge to their brittle sense of self. It defines so much of who and what they are that there's layers of secret grudges they don't even (act like) they know they have. A grudge for what the Hui made them be. Begrudging their lost heritage.
Yeah, they're kind of sourpusses, including in our direction, but that's both interesting and an opportunity with the right perspective. At least, paired with the knowledge of what fuels it. Which, conveniently, we have a decent idea of!
I just like the idea of focusing on a faction where we can really poke around the edges of resentment, because it carries the lessons of Shu Yue forwards. It should help keep the concepts alive and fresh, maybe even build on them a bit, until we get around to making the successor for our perception art, which might take a bit with all the other things we have going on at the moment.
edit: meows are the oppressive tool of mod tyranny! And... premium users or something, I think?
The Diao are a pretty remarkable case, as far as grudges go. They hold a grudge against the Hui(who doesn't). They begrudge their heritage. A grudge against their raising to Counts. They resent being compared to their peers. They resent not being compared to their peers. They hold a grudge against both the old and the new, because both resonate as a challenge to their brittle sense of self. It defines so much of who and what they are that there's layers of secret grudges they don't even (act like) they know they have. A grudge for what the Hui made them be. Begrudging their lost heritage.
Yeah, they're kind of sourpusses, including in our direction, but that's both interesting and an opportunity with the right perspective. At least, paired with the knowledge of what fuels it. Which, conveniently, we have a decent idea of!
I just like the idea of focusing on a faction where we can really poke around the edges of resentment, because it carries the lessons of Shu Yue forwards. It should help keep the concepts alive and fresh, maybe even build on them a bit, until we get around to making the successor for our perception art, which might take a bit with all the other things we have going on at the moment.
edit: meows are the oppressive tool of mod tyranny! And... premium users or something, I think?
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Which chapters tell us the Diao backstory? I've completely forgotten.
...Okay.
Mostly the LQ Adventure TM with Su Ling, where Madame Gray, Su Ling's mother, broke our flute. it was before the auction iircWhich chapters tell us the Diao backstory? I've completely forgotten.
...Okay.
It's a bit scattered.Which chapters tell us the Diao backstory? I've completely forgotten.
...Okay.
There's our first meeting with Diao Hualing, where she basically made inquiries about setting Su Ling up with her brother Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!
There's this conversation with Prime Minister Diao Linqin, Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!
There's the dream adventure we had with Su Ling, starting here Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny) Original - Users' Choice!
General consensus is that the Diao were a fox-blooded clan, and the Hui did some Bad Shit to them in the same era they raised them to counts. Su Ling's mother, Madame Grey, appears to be a remnant of the spirit pact breaches the Hui engineered, probably in an effort to get the Diao completely under their thumb and reliant.
- Location
- Not Telling
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
- Location
- Rivendell
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Some strong arguments have been made in favor of the Diao, and what ultimately swayed me is that we might not get another opportunity like this again. The Wang are most likely still going to want to work with us after the summit, but the Diao might well come to dislike us to the point that further discourse becomes much more difficult.
Some strong arguments have been made in favor of the Diao, and what ultimately swayed me is that we might not get another opportunity like this again. The Wang are most likely still going to want to work with us after the summit, but the Diao might well come to dislike us to the point that further discourse becomes much more difficult.
This was a great upgrade. I loved how Shu Yue taught Lin Qi how her own understandings tainted her answers. Learning to strip one's preconceptions is vital to truly understand other's motivations.
About the vote, I had already decided to do the Meng Quest first, and now that option is locked and we have to choose betwen Wang and Diao; so it caught me on the wrong foot.
Both options are interesting and have great benefits, so there is not really a "wrong" choice.
As I see it, the Wang has the most immediate, short term advantages. While the Diao are a more long term political move, though I have seen people argue just the opposite.
The Wang option's benefits are clear: material help for the fief and stronger support for the summit.
The Diao option is the most interesting narratively, with the fox bloodline and such. Then again, the Wang don't have anything like that because we never let them expand or deepen. They are always in the backburner.
That is my main problem with the Diao option. Because they are important and they mildly dislike our retoric we have turned them into our main target while largely ignoring our actual allies.
No, seriously. For several turns now, we are always saying that we should take this or that chance to placate the Diao. There is a bit paranoid, not entirely unjustified but certainly exaggerated, belief that if we aren't constantly catering the Diao, they will completely crush us and our projects. I blame the Prime Minester's personal dislike of Renxiang.
When will it be enough? The point of making advances with the Diao was to stop their dislike from turning worse and avoid interference and public disparagement of the summit. I would say that objective has been mostly accomplished.
The diplomatic effort isn't always going to be smooth sailing. At some point, a problem, conflict or disagreement of some kind will happen. Then many voices, Weilu Reactonaries and Imperial Conservatives, will arise; claiming that this endeavor was a mistake and that it should be shot down.
At that point, having Count Clans truly supporting us instead of being simply approving will be far more useful than having the Diao being mostly neutral with some leaning to mild support.
A lot of our detractor's arguments are simply that we'll fail and the summit with the White Sky won't provide benefits. The way to prove them wrong is succeeding.
Material and Political prosperity aren't separate things, they are interconnected. Fostering connections and support is important, but they have to be backed by solid, material wealth generation or else they will be hollow. In the same way, material developement needs political alliances so it can flourish and not being throttled.
We already have acceptable connections with the Diao, since they aren't going to sabotage us but are still far away from supporting us. So this the moment of truly increase our material wealth and stability and turn our prospective allies into frim allies.
This is a line of thought that I'm seeing a lot: "The Wang are already in our favor so we don't need to actively invest in our relationship with them".
Yet their rep is still at a measly +1. Hardly what you would call unshakable support.
Yet we don't know much about them, besides they are Weilu+Imperial architects and they (forcefully) integrate Cloud Nomads.
Yet we don't really have a dedicated Wang contact as we have the Meng and Diao ladies. We have Chao's sister, but we have barely done any rapport with her as a proper Wang representative, only the encounter at the tournament.
Unfulfilled potential is wasted potential. A lot of people are taking the Wang for granted, thinking that we can always develop our relationship with them "later".
This is exactly the kind of mindset the Wang and the southern nobles are always complaining about. They feel neglected because people are always prioritizing the "more important" Central Valley. How will they feel if even Ling Qi, their hope for recognition, starts to focusing so much in the Diao and the Central Valley? Specially when the Wang, and the Meng, are the ones that are most actually and actively helping the fief develpoment and supporting the summit?
The beginnings of rot that Ling Qi has noticed could easily become a vindicative mindset, where they sneer at the Central Valley's plight and think "now these northerns will finally know how we feel". That coud easily strain cooperation in the war efforts. Tackiling it now could be really beneficial on the long term.
About the vote, I had already decided to do the Meng Quest first, and now that option is locked and we have to choose betwen Wang and Diao; so it caught me on the wrong foot.
Both options are interesting and have great benefits, so there is not really a "wrong" choice.
As I see it, the Wang has the most immediate, short term advantages. While the Diao are a more long term political move, though I have seen people argue just the opposite.
The Wang option's benefits are clear: material help for the fief and stronger support for the summit.
The Diao option is the most interesting narratively, with the fox bloodline and such. Then again, the Wang don't have anything like that because we never let them expand or deepen. They are always in the backburner.
That is my main problem with the Diao option. Because they are important and they mildly dislike our retoric we have turned them into our main target while largely ignoring our actual allies.
No, seriously. For several turns now, we are always saying that we should take this or that chance to placate the Diao. There is a bit paranoid, not entirely unjustified but certainly exaggerated, belief that if we aren't constantly catering the Diao, they will completely crush us and our projects. I blame the Prime Minester's personal dislike of Renxiang.
When will it be enough? The point of making advances with the Diao was to stop their dislike from turning worse and avoid interference and public disparagement of the summit. I would say that objective has been mostly accomplished.
The diplomatic effort isn't always going to be smooth sailing. At some point, a problem, conflict or disagreement of some kind will happen. Then many voices, Weilu Reactonaries and Imperial Conservatives, will arise; claiming that this endeavor was a mistake and that it should be shot down.
At that point, having Count Clans truly supporting us instead of being simply approving will be far more useful than having the Diao being mostly neutral with some leaning to mild support.
A lot of our detractor's arguments are simply that we'll fail and the summit with the White Sky won't provide benefits. The way to prove them wrong is succeeding.
Material and Political prosperity aren't separate things, they are interconnected. Fostering connections and support is important, but they have to be backed by solid, material wealth generation or else they will be hollow. In the same way, material developement needs political alliances so it can flourish and not being throttled.
We already have acceptable connections with the Diao, since they aren't going to sabotage us but are still far away from supporting us. So this the moment of truly increase our material wealth and stability and turn our prospective allies into frim allies.
This is a line of thought that I'm seeing a lot: "The Wang are already in our favor so we don't need to actively invest in our relationship with them".
Yet their rep is still at a measly +1. Hardly what you would call unshakable support.
Yet we don't know much about them, besides they are Weilu+Imperial architects and they (forcefully) integrate Cloud Nomads.
Yet we don't really have a dedicated Wang contact as we have the Meng and Diao ladies. We have Chao's sister, but we have barely done any rapport with her as a proper Wang representative, only the encounter at the tournament.
Unfulfilled potential is wasted potential. A lot of people are taking the Wang for granted, thinking that we can always develop our relationship with them "later".
This is exactly the kind of mindset the Wang and the southern nobles are always complaining about. They feel neglected because people are always prioritizing the "more important" Central Valley. How will they feel if even Ling Qi, their hope for recognition, starts to focusing so much in the Diao and the Central Valley? Specially when the Wang, and the Meng, are the ones that are most actually and actively helping the fief develpoment and supporting the summit?
The beginnings of rot that Ling Qi has noticed could easily become a vindicative mindset, where they sneer at the Central Valley's plight and think "now these northerns will finally know how we feel". That coud easily strain cooperation in the war efforts. Tackiling it now could be really beneficial on the long term.
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