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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Strictly speaking, Im confused why some of the Mountain Halls advocates seem to think that Ling Qi wont have an opportunity to network with the Wang delegation at the summit in order to coordinate a unified southern approach to the negotiations?

Its an obvious in and the benefits there will serve as a likely modifier for the opportunity we're presented there, whereas the Diao are going to very obviously avoid poking the entire mess. And the thing about a Hero of the Hour?

Hours pass.

Having an in with the Diao is the result of an incredibly positive result from the outcome of disarming Renshu's plan last arc. As a result of pursuing that initial sabotage plot thread.

By contrast, the other option is kind of just...there.

The Wang just don't have any obvious ins, and we'd be actively pursuing or inventing those reasons for interacting with them. Which honestly...Ling Qi could do at any time? There's no urgency there.
 
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[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
We're never going to get anywhere with the Diao because Qi's long-term goal is to kill Diao Linqin's wife.

If Su Ling joins the Diao, she becomes a hostage Linqin can use against Qi.

"But Diao Linqin doesn't hate Qi, she had cool dialogue with Qi-" Diao Linqin has literally built her self around being Shenhua's wife, there is nothing more important to her and nothing she won't sacrifice for another five, ten, hundred years with Shenhua.

[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
Keep in mind that Garden of Sinners isn't just the Diao, it's also the Central Valley as a whole. Which is in many ways the administrative and logistical core of the province(after Xiangmen itself).

Central Valley Viscounts, and even Barons, are established in a way that isn't true for the Foundations, which got reckt by Ogodei and subsequent Cloud invasions hard. Established means influencial, and here we have the opportunity to establish ourselves in their minds as experts on foreign policy, directly as it relates to security, after our success with the ith-ia undermining operations. Getting them to listen to us now means they are listening to us. Means they're likely to listen to us on diplomacy with the White Sky.

Means we can help guide their current security anxieties away from hardening into raw xenophobia, which would hurt our projects terribly. And hurt people terribly.

This is an opportunity to play towards our fundamental motivations on isolation, community, and the world. To help the Central Valley be more than a frightened girl on the streets, impoverishing their own body and mind out of fear for what Could. (Also probably enrich ourselves materially, which is rad.)
 
Diao Lingin is not the Diao.
Yes, we are unlikely to suddenly become besties with the clan as a whole, let alone the head of the clan, but there are portions of the clan that we can work with.
 
Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Jul 31, 2022 at 1:42 AM, finished with 159 posts and 104 votes.
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[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
Skyspear said:
We're never going to get anywhere with the Diao because Qi's long-term goal is to kill Diao Linqin's wife.
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Unironically more than three centuries from this point at the veryyyyyyy most optimistic timetable

Raising that as a relevant concern is a farce, given that Linqin is unlikely to even be the head of the Diao Clan by that point unless she ascends to White in the first place
 
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Yeah, the Central Valley very much has an ongoing plotline we're in the middle of working on, and a great opportunity that has just arisen due to the current circumstances.

We want to take advantage of that and follow up while it's there.

In contrast the Wang are already favorable towards us and our ends, and are also just sort of there and not doing anything so we'd be adding another line if we went after them.
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
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[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
o11c said:
"allies and enemies" does not a prosperous/united Emerald Seas make. It preserves the status quo of many squabbling factions, as the Hui did.

Let's not be Hui 2.0, okay?

(the Wang opportunity here also touches on the internal division problem, but it really won't go away in the future, and being friendly with both sides can only help more when that comes to a head later)
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The Hui were the Hui because they intentionally created misunderstandings, spread lies, turned their vassals against each other, and had so many informants that expressing dissent was near suicidal. Saying that making a few enemies is being Hui 2.0 is a ridiculous exaggeration.

Our goal is to unify the emerald seas, specifically with a neo-weilu philosophy/ideology. We will be unable to do that without making enemies, full stop. There will be people who want imperial ways, not weilu. There will be people who hate us for corrupting the "true" weilu way. There will be people who see a unified emerald seas as being harmful to themselves, their position, or there clan.

Trying to appease and befriend these people will lead to a failed unification, or if we are lucky than merely a deeply flawed one, where the deep cracks have just been painted over with a thin veneer of neo-weilu unity. That's still workable, adding more and more layers until those old cracks are buried so deep as to be ancient history, but it's not a good or solid foundation by any means. We can do better.

Even coming from this perspective, going Diao isn't a wrong choice. Avoiding making enemies while we are still weak and getting established is important, and while the Diao might never like us increasing support in the central valley acts a counterbalance. Not a good idea to take a hardline stance against someone all of your vassals love. And maybe people want to be able to go all in at the summit and really anger the Diao.

But having the belief of "we can't/shouldn't make enemies" I would say is wrong. Obviously we shouldn't make enemies carelessly, and doing our best to minimize the forces opposed to us is important, but those are tactical concerns. Long term we will almost certainly end up opposed to them, the only question is when. The people voting Diao because they want to be friendly with them and this is a limited chance to do that I think are making a mistake.

All that said, I'm actually changing my vote. I still think Wang are a stronger choice both for the summit and long term, but it's not necessary and plot line wise this flows better. It would also give us a chance to show off a little and play the hero, which I think would be fun. Most importantly, it would give us the Diao opinion breakdown. The lack of that has been bugging me.

[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)

In terms of the events we get, I'll probably take almost any other option over Diao reputation. Not that reputation is bad, just that I don't think it's a priority. Focus on building up reputation and connections in the lower nobility instead.
 
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)

This just seems to flow better in the story, after the big Ithia attack on the Central Valley, Ling Qi turns her achievement and connection into letters, and trying to keep things focused on the Ya, instead of general xenophobia.

Because I don't really trust Imperials not to conflate the South Ice Barbarians with the Underground Corruption Barbarians.
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
Killer_Whale said:
It's not like we want to. Nor is murder the only option to depose CS
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Actrually, CRX made it quite clear that murder was not an option.
And i am fully onboard with that, because even if succesful, having one or more whites going life and death is not going to leave Emerald Seas in good condition.
Even assuming the Tree decides to not get involved.
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
 
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)

It fits much better with LQ's long-term, strategical goals imo.
 
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