- Location
- A rock hurtling through space...
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Just because we're primarily focusing on one thing doesn't mean we have to stop following every other thread—I assume, anyway; I don't think Yrs is gonna be that strict about it. I imagine whichever side doesn't get picked is still gonna be given appropriate time, we're just choosing which we want to be the main focus, I think.
Only because this thread has a habit of taking "piss as many people off as possible" as an intrinsic goal, rather than an unfortunate side-effect of something valuable we want to accomplish. Seriously, did you see the discussion on the play votes?
While the Imperial-leaning factions will not like the summit, once we can show any successes they'll have no choice but to accept/support it. Just like they have no choice but to take advantage of the Duchess suppressing the local undergrounders.
And we'll have plenty of opportunities to make nice with Imperials on other subjects, if we actually care.
For the Diao in particular, we have this opportunity now, plus whenever the thing with Su Ling's mom gets done (which will definitely happen). This should get us enough to get to +1, so we can expect at least mild support for new stuff we want in the future - and being positive might give us further chances to improve things (though that won't be critical). If we don't take this opportunity, we can't ever expect to get over 0.
And it will make other Imperials hate us less because they see we can compromise and work with those who aren't part of our core ideology.
"allies and enemies" does not a prosperous/united Emerald Seas make. It preserves the status quo of many squabbling factions, as the Hui did.
Let's not be Hui 2.0, okay?
(the Wang opportunity here also touches on the internal division problem, but it really won't go away in the future, and being friendly with both sides can only help more when that comes to a head later)
So there is a problem with Garden Of Sinners.
And its the fact that we just don't have much real Count Allies.
We have a faction of the Meng, not even a majority, but a small faction. We have some positive vibes from the Luo. The Wang are in fact unsure on the whole venture, and are still mostly just positive vibes to us. The Bao are modestly positive, but likely to not care too much.
The Diao are not going to help us. At all. We can at best get to neutral, but as Diao Hualing said, they cannot and will not support us on The Summit. Our reasoning we gave is just anthethema to the Diao.
We are supposed to be gathering allies. Garden of Sinners just doesn't help us when it comes The Summit. Afterwards, sure it will help. But not now.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
And its the fact that we just don't have much real Count Allies.
We have a faction of the Meng, not even a majority, but a small faction. We have some positive vibes from the Luo. The Wang are in fact unsure on the whole venture, and are still mostly just positive vibes to us. The Bao are modestly positive, but likely to not care too much.
The Diao are not going to help us. At all. We can at best get to neutral, but as Diao Hualing said, they cannot and will not support us on The Summit. Our reasoning we gave is just anthethema to the Diao.
We are supposed to be gathering allies. Garden of Sinners just doesn't help us when it comes The Summit. Afterwards, sure it will help. But not now.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
The Diao are interesting in that their issue with the summit is more due to personal bugbears with the framing of our initial pitch rather than Imperial leaning politics per se.
There's definite overlap, but they're being sensitive about legitimacy grounded in historical ancestry, because they have a very complex and painful history with their own.
I think it makes most sense to bring our current Diao plotline to a sensible conclusion, which means centering further progress. The Wang stuff that warrants attention should come up, and be resolved, over the natural course of the direct summit arc.
Doing it the other way around, it's just harder to give the Diao their due because of the way they're performatively avoiding involvement. How would it come up? It's much more of a headache to juggle.
And, like, the road with the Diao so far has been pretty rocky specifically because it got squeezed into the margins of other things going on. We voted to get info on Central Valley and internal Diao factions before, and neither manifested due to other stuff taking priority. It's clear we need some space to actually air things out at this point.
There's definite overlap, but they're being sensitive about legitimacy grounded in historical ancestry, because they have a very complex and painful history with their own.
The trouble with that is we genuinely have a lot of stuff going on right now, so we have to prioritize pretty stringently.
I think it makes most sense to bring our current Diao plotline to a sensible conclusion, which means centering further progress. The Wang stuff that warrants attention should come up, and be resolved, over the natural course of the direct summit arc.
Doing it the other way around, it's just harder to give the Diao their due because of the way they're performatively avoiding involvement. How would it come up? It's much more of a headache to juggle.
And, like, the road with the Diao so far has been pretty rocky specifically because it got squeezed into the margins of other things going on. We voted to get info on Central Valley and internal Diao factions before, and neither manifested due to other stuff taking priority. It's clear we need some space to actually air things out at this point.
[X] Mountain Halls-Focus your efforts on building reputation and cachet in the Foundations and Wang lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Its also really important to see that we just do not have much time before the summit. The Diao are already mostly neutral, if a bit sourpuss. Diao Hualing already mentioned the Diao weren't going to do anything truly negative. We need to firm up our allies, and get more friends. In the time it takes to get to the summit, we cannot get the Diao to be friends. We can get the Wang to be friends. We can get a very strong voice pushing for the project in the foundations.
There are benefits to the Garden of Sinners, but given the time crunch, we should be going the Wang Route. We need allies for the summit, not another faction thats not gonna help or hinder us.
There are benefits to the Garden of Sinners, but given the time crunch, we should be going the Wang Route. We need allies for the summit, not another faction thats not gonna help or hinder us.
No it's not and their vote is only counted separately because you chose to not use the vote management tools to collate votes properly.
If you can't be bothered using the tools properly, than don't use them at all.
CedeTheBees
Probably high right now
- Location
- Somewhere
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I know it can be grouped, but it's better to not need to use it in the first place.
Wrong. It doesn't matter how much ally-building we do in the next 2 months - the whole summit thing is too much of a risk for anyone to do much more than look on cautiously. Only in the long term - once we prove that the alliance works and demand for trade gets going, and for other unrelated tasks - do alliances start to matter.
- Location
- Staring into the void
If you cant be bothered to copy the vote properly, than don't vote at all.
That is literally the whole point of the vote. To increase support for The Summit. We are getting options to increase to increase our standing so as to get more support at the summit. We focused most of our attention on Central Valley and Foundations, and now we are getting a final choice.
We cannot get up to massive support among the wang, however we can get up to support 4 in the foundations and support 2 with the Wang. Meanwhile with the Diao, we can at best get up to 0 (and 3 with central valley). 2 with the Wang is far better than 0 with the Diao, especially when we need support right now. Getting them on board as much as possible is good.
Citation needed. You seem to be reading your own interpretations into the post, rather than what's actually there.
The summit is literally only mentioned twice: "after the summit" and the final "before the summit". There are a couple more mentions of "support", but don't assume "support" only applies to the one thing we are doing right now; "support" is something we will rely on for centuries to come, and numerous unrelated projects that we'll work on in that time.
[X] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
Sure. It's called understanding what is our Job. Our current job is to negotiate with the Ice Ladies. Not just that. It's to exceed expectations. We don't just need to do well. We need to do fantastic.
Unfortunately we cannot do this alone. We need support and some attempted long term play won't cut it if we do a mediocre job at the summit. We are trying to show we are actually fine being at Adults table and if we fail, our rep is kinda trashed for a long time. Shenhua let us take the negotiations because we did excellent before. We must exceed expectations and continue forward, prove it wasn't a mistake.
[x] Garden of Sinners-Focus your efforts on the Central Valley and Diao lands(Events and chances to improve reputation will focus on these factions for turn 17 and 18)
I kinda just want to have the door left upon for being able to adopt Su Ling or have the leeway to let her marry Guangli so she joins us down south post fox-ganking
I kinda just want to have the door left upon for being able to adopt Su Ling or have the leeway to let her marry Guangli so she joins us down south post fox-ganking
