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As for the Guangchou soldiers, I have heard they were terrified. Apparently, no one was prepared for the whole thing, and the soldiers were barely able to contain things. However, this info is from official Chinese reports which were recently declassified, and those reports are pretty sketchy on accurate details. So I'm not sure I would trust them, especially considering subsequent showings of Gungchou soldiers and Guangchou mercenaries.
So in that verse, there is the unspoken mystery of why Guangchou seems terrified about the incident even with all showings of the military implying they had little to worry about. Though the most popular guess would probably be a conclusion that global nuclear annihilation was imminent due to the incident.:D
That was a rollercoaster and a half, honestly I find a little hilarity in watching Lind try his hand at real world applications of his "fourth generation warfare"
Well. Honestly that "fourth generation warfare" does have some points. Buried under all of the BS that Lind and the rest of his clique is fond of. Though maybe some thinker would raid that for the actually useful bits and create an actually useful theory of war, using lessons from Vietnam and other recent conflicts...
 
Well. Honestly that "fourth generation warfare" does have some points. Buried under all of the BS that Lind and the rest of his clique is fond of. Though maybe some thinker would raid that for the actually useful bits and create an actually useful theory of war, using lessons from Vietnam and other recent conflicts...
Lind plagiarized those points, he ripped off a fair number of other people when throwing together his theory. You can spot them by coherencey. If you can understand it with reasonable effort, he copied it.
 
What is Lind's deal anyway. I don't understand what this fourth generation warfare thing is.
 
What is Lind's deal anyway. I don't understand what this fourth generation warfare thing is.
Basically:
1. Infantry is king
2. Tanks can only exploit breakthroughs made by infantry
3. Logistics is for losers
4. Warcrimes? LOLXD!!1!
5. If you believe in it reall really hard, you can do anything! *cue patriotic music*
6. Basically, fuck women. Literally. Rape them.

Edit: Here is a quest with an in-depth look of what Lind wants in both society and warfare.
 
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Basically:
1. Infantry is king
2. Tanks can only exploit breakthroughs made by infantry
3. Logistics is for losers
4. Warcrimes? LOLXD!!1!
5. If you believe in it reall really hard, you can do anything! *cue patriotic music*
6. Basically, fuck women. Literally. Rape them.

Edit: Here is a quest with an in-depth look of what Lind wants in both society and warfare.
This sounds utterly disgusting and idiotic, even to my primitive understanding of warfare. It sounds like an army like this would get shredded by a force that made good use of artillery and vehicles to ruin their foe's logistics and rip apart their infantry. The tank thing might be a good point given the efficacy of modern tank killers though.
 
This sounds utterly disgusting and idiotic, even to my primitive understanding of warfare. It sounds like an army like this would get shredded by a force that made good use of artillery and vehicles to ruin their foe's logistics and rip apart their infantry. The tank thing might be a good point given the efficacy of modern tank killers though.
The thing is, this is exactly what happens in Down With Victoria.
The very second Linds ideas are placed against a peer power, it just gets shredded, with arty and vehicles being the premier reason of why the are just failing.

And the thing with the tanks is not done because of infantry having ATMs... but because tanks can't create breakthroughs, period. As in, they are not capable of punching through...
 
That's an entirely fair point. I just really like mechs and that's most of why I made that post.

That's fair, it's just most fictional depictions of mechs miss the point of them. There was a long ass discussion about this on the Tyrants Discord, and the general conclusion is that mechs aren't substitutes or competitors to tanks or even IFV, rather they're an evolution of the technical.


:V

Small mechs are WAY more viable as civilian construction equipment, and in times of war you could easily see someone strapping some armor to them and bolding on a gun of some sort to create a makeshift armoured vehicle that's more or less immune to small arms fire.

This reminds me. We might want to test out the Code Geass Knightmare Frame thing and slap some wheels or treads on the feet of our Iron Tigers at some point. For faster movement along roads and in other areas where wheels or treads would function better than legs. Or make a 4 legged IT with wheeled feet that can switch between walking and driving around, maybe have it act as an IFV of sorts. To combine the strengths of both, though I will admit it might also inherit the issues of both.

I've throught about it - the Tigers do have electric motors built into their limbs to drive the hydraulics - but I'm not sure the extra weight and complexity of the combining gearbox would be worth it compared to just making a car with composite long-short travel suspension.
I think it's more viable to go in the other direction and slap some robot arms on a tracked or wheeled vehicle to add a lot of flexibility to an engineering vehicle.

In January 1976, on the first day of the month. At which point you will proclaim the goals of the next plan, alongside the success/failure and the degree of which.

Ah, sorry I meant the present turn. I'm guessing each turn is mid-winter to mid-summer and vice versa?

Basically:
1. Infantry is king
2. Tanks can only exploit breakthroughs made by infantry
3. Logistics is for losers
4. Warcrimes? LOLXD!!1!
5. If you believe in it reall really hard, you can do anything! *cue patriotic music*
6. Basically, fuck women. Literally. Rape them.

Edit: Here is a quest with an in-depth look of what Lind wants in both society and warfare.

Me: "Is this going to be Vic-"
HeroCooky: "VICTORIA FALLS!"
Me: "-fucking knew it."
 
In January 1976, on the first day of the month. At which point you will proclaim the goals of the next plan, alongside the success/failure and the degree of which.
Huge success. Absolute success! Great Leader has succeeded in his plan, as a Great Leader do!

Please wait, while the Statistic cubicle nr. 520231 is cleared of treasonous objects.
-- Notice at the plan monitoring Agency
 
Hmmm, the more I read about titanium pressure hulls, the more I think we should go with steel instead.
Titanium's extra cost of development and fabrication is going to add up fast if we want to build submarines in bulk as an asymmetric counter to American (and to a lesser degree Chinese) sea power.
Titanium is also a lot more compressible than steel, and it's speculated that the chronic anechoic tile adhesion problems that the Soviet titanium subs had has a lot to do with the fact that it shrinks a lot more than steel when the submarine dives - this shrinkage also seems to have required the use of a titanium screw (a very unusual choice given Ti is more prone to deformation, and also that screws are typically made of a different material than the rest of the submarine).
Finally, I think the plan is to build relatively small submarines on the order of 1500 tonnes. These will be relatively short ranged and so degaussing their hulls isn't going to be as big a problem as it would be on the big Soviet and American nuclear boats.

Now, turbine wise, the Americans apparently did run a test on using turbines to power a diesel boat and it was much quieter - but the problem is that turbines don't handle back pressure nearly as well as a piston engine, and they need a lot more air. This resulted in the submarine only being able to use it's turbines when it was fully surfaced, rather than snorkelling as a diesel would.
A British company also did a concept study for a turbine powered submarine called the SSGT - Ship Submersible Gas Turbine. This time they put the two turbines at the very top of a truly chonky sail, with the idea being that the submarine would transit rapidly on the surface. The entire project however seems to have been more of a flex to show off their skills (optimizing a hull shape for near surface running is no joke) rather than a real effort at designing a viable submarine, and there were no bites from the military. It's speculated that at the end of the day surface transit just gives up one of the major advantages of a submarine: strategic uncertainly about where the heck it is, and is thus not worth it.

There are options for turbine power plants, but they're for closed cycle AIP that require storing LOX on your submarine, which a lot of peeps here have taken issue with, so it looks like we're stuck with conventional diesels.
 
So, am I correct for thinking that our eventual goal is likely to break away from china and be our own thing?
 
So, am I correct for thinking that our eventual goal is likely to break away from china and be our own thing?

Sooort of?

Short of Guangchou turning into a giant Iron Tiger and moving somewhere else we're always going to be tied to China - their population and size assures that, but we can develop our military and economic might to make it more of a partnership where we have a lot of say over things.
 
So, am I correct for thinking that our eventual goal is likely to break away from china and be our own thing?
Sooort of?

Short of Guangchou turning into a giant Iron Tiger and moving somewhere else we're always going to be tied to China - their population and size assures that, but we can develop our military and economic might to make it more of a partnership where we have a lot of say over things.

Basically, China is too strong relative to us, to the point where our internal policies and politics could basically be determined by Beijing. We won't every have a truly independent foreign policy from them, but if we gather more economic and military power, we should be able to get to the point where we can define out own economic and military policy without really needing to consider China's stance (The main reason that wasn't happening already was because China wasn't super interested in what we were doing)
 
Now, turbine wise, the Americans apparently did run a test on using turbines to power a diesel boat and it was much quieter - but the problem is that turbines don't handle back pressure nearly as well as a piston engine, and they need a lot more air. This resulted in the submarine only being able to use it's turbines when it was fully surfaced, rather than snorkelling as a diesel would.
A British company also did a concept study for a turbine powered submarine called the SSGT - Ship Submersible Gas Turbine. This time they put the two turbines at the very top of a truly chonky sail, with the idea being that the submarine would transit rapidly on the surface. The entire project however seems to have been more of a flex to show off their skills (optimizing a hull shape for near surface running is no joke) rather than a real effort at designing a viable submarine, and there were no bites from the military. It's speculated that at the end of the day surface transit just gives up one of the major advantages of a submarine: strategic uncertainly about where the heck it is, and is thus not worth it.

There are options for turbine power plants, but they're for closed cycle AIP that require storing LOX on your submarine, which a lot of peeps here have taken issue with, so it looks like we're stuck with conventional diesels.
I think we can get turbines working in submarines, even if just as a turbo-electric system that uses it to charge the batteries on the surface like a diesel-electric submarine. I imagine the Iron Tiger turbine engine is a turbo-electric system too, if of only because I can't imagine they'd be as good as they are if we had to directly connect every joint and moving part, with all their different power and speed requirements, to the same turbine driveshaft. And if it comes down to it, a turbine engine that can run on just the air from a snorkel isn't that high on the unrealistic scale.

Short of Guangchou turning into a giant Iron Tiger and moving somewhere else we're always going to be tied to China - their population and size assures that, but we can develop our military and economic might to make it more of a partnership where we have a lot of say over things.
There is one thing I image we could use to guarentee that we could leave China if we want to. Build enough nuclear weapons and delivery systems to reach MAD.

It would burn every bridge we've ever had with them, and unless we've mangaged to swing the USSR to our side somehow, or built up enough of our own allies and a navy to avoid a blockade we'll be cut off from just about everyone. The West sure isn't going help us after all. But it would allow us to survive past the point where we've reached 0/10 Chinese Opinion.
 
I think we can get turbines working in submarines, even if just as a turbo-electric system that uses it to charge the batteries on the surface like a diesel-electric submarine. I imagine the Iron Tiger turbine engine is a turbo-electric system too, if of only because I can't imagine they'd be as good as they are if we had to directly connect every joint and moving part, with all their different power and speed requirements, to the same turbine driveshaft. And if it comes down to it, a turbine engine that can run on just the air from a snorkel isn't that high on the unrealistic scale.


There is one thing I image we could use to guarentee that we could leave China if we want to. Build enough nuclear weapons and delivery systems to reach MAD.

It would burn every bridge we've ever had with them, and unless we've mangaged to swing the USSR to our side somehow, or built up enough of our own allies and a navy to avoid a blockade we'll be cut off from just about everyone. The West sure isn't going help us after all. But it would allow us to survive past the point where we've reached 0/10 Chinese Opinion.

Snorkels and turbines are apparently a bad mix - turbines really don't like the interupted air flow that occurs in rougher sea states when waves cause the snorkel to clamp shut intermittently.
The increased air flow also requires an exceptionally thick snorkel - the SSGT's looks more like an extendible smoke stark than a snorkel.
Finally, turbines don't deal well with back pressure, so exhaust gasses have to be routed back up the snorkel and discharged directly to the surface. The amount of tubing required seems to have been enough of an issue that the SSGT team mounted the twin turbines on top of the sail. I don't think any submarine designer would put that much weight that high up unless it was really necessary.

Now, we do have enough omake bonii that we stand a good chance of rolling high enough to make a breakthrough. That could be an AIP system, or it could be something a little wackier like a towed parasite submarine that houses the turbines, and can surface and pipe down electricity through a cable without us putting the mothership at risk.

On the topic of nukes, I don't think we need full blown MAD - we just need enough warheads to make invading us too costly to be worth it.
 
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The Iwo Jima Crisis of 1974 - The World Looks On
In future depictions of the event, one could always tell what the authors or writers thought about NATO or even European politics.

Those that proscribed to the Big Man Theory would depict the gathering of NATO that fateful day in the fall of 1974 as a meeting of giants. Presidents were meeting at a big table, discussing the world's fate as smoke wafted from cigarettes and cigars, alcohol in glasses clinking with ice, and an air of dignity and decisiveness as all were seated, discussing in perfect control of themselves and the situation.

Conspiracy Theorists would push a dark room, sometimes with electronic voice-changers warbling speech and accent to make one indistinguishable from another. As a result, nobody within the room would know who the other was beyond their country, and nobody would ever know the decisions that shaped the future of their dark designs.

Political Thriller Enthusiasts shared their love of screaming matches, dramatic proclamations, and ridiculous ascertains, interrupted by dramatic timings when the bottom of a secretary would grace the reader or viewer for several pages or half a minute as they walked to give that most important of papers to their superior.

On the other hand, historians would show it for what it was. A meeting of diplomats and leaders of the Free World discussing the Act of God and how to proceed. Nerves were twitchy and temper high but pushed down. There would be a discussion but no screaming. The men within the room, for there were few states that dared to think about having women in any high position, were, for the most part, incredulous and baffled.

At this conference, it would be here that Donald Rumsfeld, Ambassador to NATO, would speak a quote that would ring through time, both darkly and with light.

"Bad enough that a tsunami stranded our sailors on that commie island, but to treat it as littering? What is next? Giant Robots and Animal People?!"

People would laugh at this, bleeding off some stress and anxiety at hearing this off-hand joke.

All except the German Ambassador...

The White House had never been as busy within these last few weeks as it has ever been since it was proclaimed as the president's workplace. Everybody, from the cleaners, assistants, secret service, and even the guy mowing the lawn, was pulling double and then triple shifts.

Before the White House, protestors had gathered in droves, only held back by the fence and a cordon of riot police, armed and ready to disperse the crowds should it ever become necessary. Their demands and readiness for violence shifted by day and subject. From mothers and fathers, children and spouses demanding the return of the sailors to be done now to the anti-communists protesting against any concessions to the "Unholy Godless Communist Faggots Butchering our Boys!" If there was an interest group, there was a protest, and a crowd, riled up enough to warrant sharp weapons and twitchy fingers. Journalists flew like vultures around the people, milking anyone that would talk to them for any story, eager to stoke the bubbling red panic currently brewing within the nation. And at the center of it all sat one man, his table loaded with papers, cups of coffee, and a doctor within the building anxiously waiting for the hour he'd be called in to treat a collapsed President.

By any definition you'd care to talk about, Gerald Ford was not having a good time, nor did he have an easy one. But, as the Chinese said to curse another, "May you live in interesting times," so did Ford stand at the front, desperate to steer the ship from an incoming apocalypse to mere troubles.

It had been hell to convince the Republicans to vote for the "fines" of industrial goods to be given to Guangchou and more suffering to calm down the Democrats from the demands of sending American Citizenry to the communist nation as part of the deal.

Everybody knew that that part of the fines, alongside several others, had been created and deliberately written into the penalty to give the US just enough things to deny for the country to save some face.

Yet, even as everything was agreed upon, as the diplomats shook hands after signing symbolic papers already in effect for days, Gerald Ford still had to work and fight with every part of the nation to ensure that Guangchou would return their boys safe and unharmed, and the goods are delivered as agreed upon.

To do otherwise would sink any chance of retaining several nations within their sphere, giving the Communists a perfect example to point towards as to the trustworthiness of the US.

Despite the demand of the nation to cut off any deliveries once the sailors were returned.

Despite the screeches of politicians of him being a dirty communist intent on destroying and subverting the nation.

Even though, even with reparations paid in full, their deal with Guangchou would cost them less than decommissioning the carrier back at home, as it would have been once the year was up.

Because all he could think of was a single sentence said by the Guangchou Representative to that of the US, which stuck him in this uncertain time of possible nuclear annihilation.

"On behalf of the 150 Billion that came before us, let this be a semi-colon in history rather than a full stop."

Within Moscow, a Troika sat, deep within a meeting of "equals," steering the great ship of communism within all republics of Europe and Asia in equal measure.

Here were the three men within the room, shifting through presentations and reports from the KGB and Diplomats alike, getting a picture of what was happening within the world and how they could better benefit the Russian people by taking advantage of such troubles.

Here sat Leonid Brezhnev, first of equals, his mind stirring with possibilities and potential paths.

Alexei Kosygin was reading through the 'Great Shaming' of the United States with a smirk and schadenfreude upon his lips and mind.

And last, maybe even without any "But not least," Nikolai Podgorny sat, pondering over the deal that the Pink Shield of China had struck with the western nations, walking over a distracted China with ease and irreverence not seen in that traitor's puppet nations. Ever.

"Food," Brezhnev spoke, leaning back with the creaking of leather sounding out in the quiet room. "Food and machines, those are the things they demanded?"

"Do not forget the equipment for making films, as well as for instructions on how to use them to the American standards," Podgorny said, still reading through a report on the first batch of equipment being delivered, overseen by the "Neutral Nations" and overseers from both sides of the curtain.

"I would call it genius if I were not concerned how such could sway them. We all know how little in mind they are, especially that breed that celebrates depravity." Kosygin murmured before speaking up.

"Still," Brezhnev replied, brow scrunched in thought, tapping on the papers with one finger. "It will help them industrialize, massively so, since they no longer need to worry about famine for some time and be able to modernize important heavy industry to a degree. But what is this item," he said, pointing at a bill adding about fifteen-hundred tons of machinery and food alone, dated after the beaching. "This... 'collective summarization of third stage luxury goods use?'"

"Ah," said the nervous KGB Agent, "you see, that summarizes the list of-"

"-brothel visits?" Jordan O'Driscoll, the Irish Official overseeing the treatment and dealings of the US Sailors and their government and that of Guangchou. "That... tha-what?" He stammered, looking down at the itemized bill staring at him, with hundreds of acts staring back without shame or restraint.

"You heard correctly," the woman in men's clothing said back to him; Wu, if he remembered correctly, a sultry smile upon her lips as she looked as pleased as a cat in the sun. "Those boys sure knew how to react once they were told Uncle Sam would pay for all their bills and that we would not disclose any names."

Jordan looked up at her, then down once more, before looking up again, his mouth opening and closing again and again. "Tha-that... how the fuck did they rack up so many visits? How could they rack up so many visits? And why are they so expensive?"

"Ah," his Guangchou handler said, never losing the pleased smile as she turned her head with false innocence and frightful cheer. "You see, unlike most nations, sex work is legalized and recognized as work within Guangchou. Therefore, those engaging in such work are entitled, and if they do so over extended periods exceeding a week, required to form a Union."

"But what has that to do with-with this?" Jordan said, tapping the papers a few times in disbelief.

"Oh, well, you see," Wu said, standing up to walk around the desk. "When those men, who had been on the ocean for those long, tense, harsh months, realized they could relax," she said, smiling at him as she sat on the table next to him, still wearing that unnervingly pleased smile. "Without having to foot the bill, they decided to visit the world's second-oldest profession and seek relief from both stress and hardship in the arms of carnal pleasure. The problem was that they created an imbalance due to the services they sought!"

Leaning back from the woman leaning forward, Jordan gulped, not knowing if he wanted to know what service-"What kind?" Dammit!

Grinning as she leaned back, she continued, much to Jordan's relief. "You see, the providers of one side of pleasure were getting... peeved at how they were being overlooked. And so, they decided to lower their price." Wu spoke, leaning back, doing things to her general chest area Jordan was studiously avoiding looking at. "The Unions didn't like that and forced them to raise their prices once more, citing both the need for fair competition and the failure of the tactic. In response, due to them getting increasingly sore, the other side then decided to raise their prices, unreasonably so."

At that, Jordan perked up, his mind ringing the bell with what blood it still had at even this tiny whiff of cheating. "Was that said to the sailors?"

Wu laughed in response, a clear, pleasing bell, as her eyes once more focused on him. "Oh, they were; each time they visited, and the price was raised. But, for some reason, that did the opposite as they received news after news that their senate was stalling getting them back home again. Wonder why?" She spoke, standing up. Then, with confident steps, she walked past Jordan, a hand lightly brushing over his shoulder. "Oh!" She said as she stood before the door, perking up as if she had remembered something tremendous and exciting. "You should probably know, the US agreed to pay all the bills of the Officials. All... the... bills..."

And with that, she left, leaving behind a man in desperate need of either a cold shower or some time alone.

Until he noticed the small card on the table.

One where directions to and prices of the local brothels were listed.

When you try to see how much debt the sailors add to the US by visiting brothels and you roll a Nat100.

Congratulations, Guangchou is genuinely fueled by THE GAY.
 
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"Bad enough that a tsunami stranded our sailors on that commie island, but to treat it as littering? What is next? Giant Robots and Animal People?!"

People would laugh at this, bleeding off some stress and anxiety at hearing this off-hand joke.

All except the German Ambassador...
And Germany is sitting there KNOWING how that is gonna be protheric, due to both being nazi legacies!:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
Wu laughed in response, a clear, pleasing bell, as her eyes once more focused on him. "Oh, they were; each time they visited, and the price was raised. But, for some reason, that did the opposite as they received news after news that their senate was stalling, getting them back home again. Wonder why?" She spoke, standing up. Then, with confident steps, she walked past Jordan, a hand lightly brushing over his shoulder. "Oh!" She said as she stood before the door, perking up as if she had remembered something tremendous and exciting. "You should probably know, the US agreed to pay all the bills of the Officials. All... the... bills..."

And with that, she left, leaving behind a man in desperate need of either a cold shower or some time alone.

Until he noticed the small card on the table.

One where directions to and prices of the local brothels were listed.

When you try to see how much debt the sailors add to the US by visiting brothels and you roll a Nat100.

Congratulations, Guangchou is genuinely fueled by THE GAY.
And meanwhile, we just kickstarted our tourism industry thanks to our brothels.:D
 
True hardworking patriots one and all! :lol2:
I can't wait till we decide to stop AIDS because we require our prostitutes to be clean, and other things that will make everyone think we're gods or just plain awesome!
And Germany is sitting there KNOWING how that is gonna be protheric, due to both being nazi legacies!:lol::rofl::lol::rofl:
Somehow, I think the Nazi's are rolling in their graves, knowing that it got taken by freaking Dandy People!
This is going to be hilarious to look back on for everyone in a few years.
Knowing our luck, they will think we developed them all independently of the Nazi's!
 
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