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Project: Gamer Ver. 2 (Young Justice/Gamer/Multicross OC)

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Laharl said:
Martians in there natural state want to be on fire it's fun for them unfortunately the gaurdians of oa don't like that and invaded and mind controlled them so hard it's part of there biology to fear it now somehow
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This is kinda true? Barely?

Waay way back, the Martians, of which all or nearly all were white, kinda went slaaneshi. They got addicted to sensation and it's psychic resonance... especially to pain. And they had a lot of 'fun' using their psychic prowess to it's greatest extent in setting themselves and everyone else they could get too on fire.

At the rate they were going they'd cause a lot of suffering and then literally burn-out as a species, so the Oans decided to intervene as is their mandate. All Burning Martians were either killed, imprisoned, or brainwashed into not being psychopathic murder fetishists (though at least one escaped to Earth and then got cryogenically frozen), and then Martian society was left/minorly nudged to start putting itself back together to ultimately become one of the Oans greatest (few) success stories for their intervention. As a part of preventative measures, the Oans also instilled a psychic block on any kind of psycho-thermal power use, and an artificial phobia to fire to make sure the (extremely mentally powerful) Martians didn't just wear that block down.

The abundance of WILLPOWER used in Oan workings and their ongoing alterations may or may not also be responsible for most Martians natural green coloration.

While I don't remember how much modern Martians may remember of their turbulent past or the connection of White Martians to it...White's are the most genetically predisposed to their old skills with pyromancy/psychokinetic fire, even while they still have the fire-phobia affecting them. If there were ever any incidents where White's in the past generated fire somehow, combine that with the species-wide extreme aversion to fire and the relatively small number of White's around...and that's how Martian racism got started (even if their relatively MUCH more utopian society meant bigotry was more on the order of social isolation and/or bullying then outright violence).
 
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Did Norn just precog Alchemist meeting with Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos? Shen then used that as a catalyst to transfer herself from VP and into the Source Wall and in the DC Multiverse?

Alchemist, bro, you have another god chasing after your metal ass.
 
Magos Tractor-1 said:
Did Norn just precog Alchemist meeting with Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos? Shen then used that as a catalyst to transfer herself from VP and into the Source Wall and in the DC Multiverse?
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...depends on how closely related the three Fates of different pantheons are. The Nornir are Urd, Verdandi, and Skuld. Less weaving, more moving water around than their Greek counterparts.
 
Magos Tractor-1 said:
Did Norn just precog Alchemist meeting with Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos? Shen then used that as a catalyst to transfer herself from VP and into the Source Wall and in the DC Multiverse?

Alchemist, bro, you have another god chasing after your metal ass.
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Pretty sure she didn't move.

Just looked into the future, and out of all the vast and ever-changing possibilities she looked at, Alchemist and the presence of three fate related figures being next to him stabilized the possibility enough for her to get a deeper look at what was going on there.

Just her seeing a vision of Alchemist and her confirming to herself and the world that she was choosing the future of unlimited possibilities instead of trying to keep things in stasis.

Allowing nature to continue with Yggdrasil dying and the world/universe moving on to the future, instead of the 'canon' ending where she resurrects Lucian and halts Ragnarok so the world tree doesn't fall for presumably however long she holds things in unchanging stasis.
 
Her musing on Al and his difficulty in communication being tied to his lack of skill/ability with mind arts was pretty interesting.
 
I was thinking, but why did the Martians evolve incredible Shapeshifting and Psychic powers?

What creatures hunted Proto-Martians to necessitate such an evolutionary path as that? And should Alchemist bring them back if he fixes Mar's dead biosphere?
 
It seems like every race in the universe has phenomenal cosmic powers...

...except humans. Humans are pitifully weak and pitifully slow and pitifully fragile and pitifully stupid. Not only with no special abilities that every other race in the universe has, but they're also extremely behind on the tech scale and even farther behind on the magic scale, despite Earth having more magic than anywhere else in the universe.

Martians are not human. Therefore, they get special abilities. They don't need to have a "why" beyond that, apparently.

@Frescko - Also, "Mars" is singular, so "Mars's" is singular-possessive. Always add "apostrophe-S" to the end of a singular word for a possessive, even if it ends in an S. (Also include the original S in that case.)
 
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Lycanthromancer said:
It seems like every race in the universe has phenomenal cosmic powers...

...except humans. Humans are pitifully weak and pitifully slow and pitifully fragile and pitifully stupid. Not only with no special abilities that every other race in the universe has, but they're also extremely behind on the tech scale and even farther behind on the magic scale, despite Earth having more magic than anywhere else in the universe.

Martians are not human. Therefore, they get special abilities. They don't need to have a "why" beyond that, apparently.
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I like to imagine what we're seeing is the very best of a species, the Meta-whatever of that species. It's not that Martian Manhunter or M'gann are the norm they're outliers of the highest degree.

And in the cases that a species just only produces super powered people? Well they either had a horrible eugenics program like the viltrumites or had evolved to be that way due to evolutionary pressure. Which then makes me wonder what could possibly make a species as a whole evolve like that?

Probably some comic book radiation is involved or something.

Also isn't there a IF timeline where earth blows up so some human sends their kid to Krypton and they gain super strength there for some reason?
 
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Yeah, the Martian Manhunter can psychically connect with every human on Earth at once. And M'gann is somehow even more powerful than him.

The thing is, Humans do have a few things going for them. On the cosmic scale, they're the species with the biggest balls. You can see that in the comic where Batman goes to Apokalypse and threatens to destroy the planet to Darkseid's face.

More than that, the special trait that is unique to humanity is that they're the best Dreamers in the universe. While largely forgotten about in the modern era, Dreaming can change the very fabric of reality and humanity has done this in the past when they changed the shape and nature of their cruel, evil feline overlords and turned them into the domestic house cat.

Which are still our cruel, evil feline overlords. They're just not big enough anymore to casually murder most humans.
 
Also something I was wonder about, McFiscer Alchemist said he would go to Bloodborne if necessary for the whole Faux Yharnim thing. But I was wondering what Ending would Alchemist choose? Like the options are leave Gehrman to his fate, something I can't see Alchemist doing. Becoming a Slave to the moon Presence and finally killing the Moon Presence and becoming a Great One.

If alchemist became a great one what would the consequences be, both on a Marco and Micro scale. Would he have even more trouble relating to humanity then he already has due to the subtle influence of being a Void Dragon? Would he have to go into solitude because people can't be around him or would he figure a way around that?

And finally would he only consume 3 of the 4 needed Umbilical Cords, All 4 or manipulate things for a 5th one (not counting the potential for extras due to the loot doubling things)

(If you don't know what I'm talking about a 5th one Annalise could theoretically give a 5th UC if you time everything right and it wasn't a game)
 
Depending on how the lore was interpreted, the Moon Presence (Flora) doesn't want a slave. It wanted a child, and Gherman had the misfortune of being an acceptable stand-in.

And, possibly worse, Al as a Void Dragon in Universally Compatible.

This turns into the worst possible version of Yandere Simulator in the multiverse if Al doesn't play his cards right.
 
Does he need to follow the canon endings? Can't he change things so he doesn't need to become an Old One (unless he want to)?

Why not bring in Dream to take over the place after he goes around fixing things? Or someone lower on the totem pole if bothering Dream os too dangerous.
 
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Frescko said:
Also something I was wonder about, McFiscer Alchemist said he would go to Bloodborne if necessary for the whole Faux Yharnim thing. But I was wondering what Ending would Alchemist choose? Like the options are leave Gehrman to his fate, something I can't see Alchemist doing. Becoming a Slave to the moon Presence and finally killing the Moon Presence and becoming a Great One.

If alchemist became a great one what would the consequences be, both on a Marco and Micro scale. Would he have even more trouble relating to humanity then he already has due to the subtle influence of being a Void Dragon? Would he have to go into solitude because people can't be around him or would he figure a way around that?

And finally would he only consume 3 of the 4 needed Umbilical Cords, All 4 or manipulate things for a 5th one (not counting the potential for extras due to the loot doubling things)

(If you don't know what I'm talking about a 5th one Annalise could theoretically give a 5th UC if you time everything right and it wasn't a game)
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I mean, those are the Good Hunter's options. And, even from the little bit I've seen...consuming the U-Cords didn't bring the Moon Presence to the GH so much as make them/the ritual to become a Great One, interesting enough to bother showing itself. It's still present in the 'moon' of the Dream all the rest of the time, it just has no reason to show itself and the GH has no way to force it (or even know it's there).

Alec is... significantly more magical. And just strange. Maybe at the beginning of this fic just being a Gamer and having in-depth Yharnam lore without the Insight would have drawn it out...or maybe it would have required starting the process to become a GO. At this point, if it doesn't come/go running on Alec entering the Dream, I'm confident he could drag it out.

As for becoming a Great One... he's running a System that explicitly doesn't have Gamer's Mind or other 'fiat' level mental protection built it, and it's probably a safe assumption that voluntarily starting the process by consuming U-Cords and then slaying a Great One would additionally bypass the magics and defences Al has cast or built in - conceptually it's not an attack after all, it's a choice made with consent.

And considering what BB's Great Ones are like...well he'd probably be extremely lucky to be 'him' enough to even begin worrying about the social ramifications by the end of it. Which would of course make the social and relationship ramifications severe. Basically, it's a stupid idea, and he should never sanely do it. If he did anyway, the best bet is probably to spend a couple eons in a achronal pocket dimension to grow up as a Great One and also figure out how to do the 'people' thing again, preferably better then the other Great Ones did (seeing as the very mature and positively ancient GO's that interacted with Yharnam/preceding human civs only managed an extremely basic, albiet primally powerful, sympathy with humans, which is part of why everything always went to shit.)

Edit: After seeing the ninja author, I guess another detail is that getting bad-touched by Moon Mommy probably would run into Alec's prepared defenses (y'know, so long as it's clearly, magically, non-consensual), but it's also kinda hard to tell what defenses would work and to what extent.

I'm not the most solid on Al's extensive character sheet by now, but I'm pretty sure the majority of his defenses in both gear and perks are focused on 'direct' elemental or physical damaging effects. There's spells and stats like Mind-Blank to help protect his mind and soul, the weird spiritual symbiote/not!Magatama things, the fact that he turned his soul into a phylactery and has it in an enchanted and heavily secured socket (it's not all loose and vulnerable to groping) also probably helps...but all those things are finite, defenses that can be overcome or potentially/partially bypassed. And a Great One is pretty far up there in terms of both personal power and how exotically they can wield it. Being bodily/conceptually a Void Dragon that is inherently weak to getting molested by tentacled beings from beyond the stars also really doesn't help.
 
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Nalanaya said:
I mean, those are the Good Hunter's options. And, even from the little bit I've seen...consuming the U-Cords didn't bring the Moon Presence to the GH so much as make them/the ritual to become a Great One, interesting enough to bother showing itself. It's still present in the 'moon' of the Dream all the rest of the time, it just has no reason to show itself and the GH has no way to force it (or even know it's there).

Alec is... significantly more magical. And just strange. Maybe at the beginning of this fic just being a Gamer and having in-depth Yharnam lore without the Insight would have drawn it out...or maybe it would have required starting the process to become a GO. At this point, if it doesn't come/go running on Alec entering the Dream, I'm confident he could drag it out.

As for becoming a Great One... he's running a System that explicitly doesn't have Gamer's Mind or other 'fiat' level mental protection built it, and it's probably a safe assumption that voluntarily starting the process by consuming U-Cords and then slaying a Great One would additionally bypass the magics and defences Al has cast or built in - conceptually it's not an attack after all, it's a choice made with consent.

And considering what BB's Great Ones are like...well he'd probably be extremely lucky to be 'him' enough to even begin worrying about the social ramifications? Which would of course make the social and relationship ramifications severe. Basically, it's a stupid idea, and he should never sanely do it. If he did anyway, the best bet is probably to spend a couple eons in a achronal pocket dimension to grow up as a Great One and also figure out how to do the 'people' thing again, preferably better then the other Great Ones did (seeing as the very mature and positively ancient GO's that interacted with Yharnam/preceding human civs only managed an extremely basic, albiet primally powerful, sympathy with humans, which is part of why everything always went to shit.)
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Bloodborne's great old ones are sympathetic in spirit. Keep in mind, they all want a child, and before the Good Hunter, Mergo was the closest thing to a success they managed to pull off over a couple thousand years. That was Oedon's attempt before it took up being the Doll for the Moon Presence because the MP used their blood as the conduit for all of Yharnam to happen. Next attempt was the fetus past the Ancestral Clocktower at the Fishing Village. That turned out worse than Mergo because it's certainly Eldritch but it's not an Old One, just strong and spooky.
 
Frescko said:
But I was wondering what Ending would Alchemist choose? Like the options are leave Gehrman to his fate, something I can't see Alchemist doing. Becoming a Slave to the moon Presence and finally killing the Moon Presence and becoming a Great One.
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Becoming a Great One isn't a consequence of killing the Moon Presence, it's a consequence of eating the umbilical cords, and those were needed to give the Good Hunter enough power to not become their slave instantly.

Alec should be able to prevent becoming a slave without the power boost, so would trigger the fight without going the Great One route.
 
I mean, the thing with all souls-borne (and certainly Bloodborne) is it's all pretty subject to interpretation.
Also, not to mention Al might just be able to talk-no-jutsu the Moon Presence, he's likely got powers and tools available to be actually able to hold a comprehensive discussion with one of the Old Ones.
 
w4terghost said:
I mean, the thing with all souls-borne (and certainly Bloodborne) is it's all pretty subject to interpretation.
Also, not to mention Al might just be able to talk-no-jutsu the Moon Presence, he's likely got powers and tools available to be actually able to hold a comprehensive discussion with one of the Old Ones.
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i'm imagining some Hunter managing to get to the Moon Presence, only to see them and Al just having a picnic or something.
 
Ah, Bloodborne. One of the few universes which the best answer is to summon Gilgamesh and toss 3 command seals into "use Ea to destroy the universe"
 
Probably also worth noting, the Martian weakness to fire is expanded to any type of extreme heat, something the Martians have to regularly overcome as yes, this includes lava, which Mars has plenty of in certain areas. It's also not a psychological weakness but appears to be biological, as the show makes no mention of the Guardians doing this to them, and Ma'alefa'ak, who famously lost his weakness to fire when he was stripped of his telepathy, has not had this happen to him (the other Martians simply imprisoned him in a prison cell instead), meaning he is no different than any other Martian (aside from his loyalty to Apokolips).

YJ would also reveal in the finale of season 4 that Durla, the homeworld of Chameleon Boy, was uninhabited until Grayven rewarded Ma'alefa'ak with it as a home for his White Martian loyalists, suggesting that in the future, these Martians evolved into the Durlans, another race of shapeshifters, but would lose their telepathy and intangibility.
 
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6f5e4d said:
Probably also worth noting, the Martian weakness to fire is expanded to any type of extreme heat, something the Martians have to regularly overcome as yes, this includes lava, which Mars has plenty of in certain areas. It's also not a psychological weakness but appears to be biological, as the show makes no mention of the Guardians doing this to them, and Ma'alefa'ak, who famously lost his weakness to fire when he was stripped of his telepathy, has not had this happen to him (the other Martians simply imprisoned him in a prison cell instead), meaning he is no different than any other Martian (aside from his loyalty to Apokolips).

YJ would also reveal in the finale of season 4 that Durla, the homeworld of Chameleon Boy, was uninhabited until Grayven rewarded Ma'alefaak with it as a home for his White Martian loyalists, suggesting that in the future, these Martians evolved into the Durlans, another race of shapeshifters, but would lose their telepathy and intangibility.
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the martian weakness to fire is based on deep psychic roots, not physical ones. The original Manhunter was given weakness to fire as an acceptable way to have villains face him easily, given the breadth of his power set.
Originally, the weakness to fire is born of the Flaming Plague of Mars, which wiped out most of the population and left J'onn one of the very few survivors. THe psychic trauma of feeling so many of their people die telepathically as they were burned alive from the inside out was so crippling that the mere sight of flame started to weaken the surviving Martians, and that weakness persisted right up until the present day when the plague finally nearly did the job.
Now, the YJ universe, a great deal is different, but with the fact a non-telepathic Martian loses their vulnerability to fire, we can assume that the psychic reason behind it is transmitted through the generations, so strong and vivid is it, and any cases of the plague probably spike the racial memories once again.

So, it's more about the psychic impact of flame hurting control of their bodies and making them vulnerable. It was shown in one JLA book, the very one where J'onn lost his fear of fire, that Martians are actually invulnerable to flames in normal circumstances (he does a cookout and uses his fingers to flip the burgers on the grill). That was also the storyline where the original Burning Martians were invented, btw.

J'onn comes out of that with his weakness to fire back, and 'flames of loss', where the psychic presence of the dying or injured lay, are even more crippling to him now.
 
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6f5e4d said:
Probably also worth noting, the Martian weakness to fire is expanded to any type of extreme heat, something the Martians have to regularly overcome as yes, this includes lava, which Mars has plenty of in certain areas. It's also not a psychological weakness but appears to be biological, as the show makes no mention of the Guardians doing this to them, and Ma'alefa'ak, who famously lost his weakness to fire when he was stripped of his telepathy, has not had this happen to him (the other Martians simply imprisoned him in a prison cell instead), meaning he is no different than any other Martian (aside from his loyalty to Apokolips).

YJ would also reveal in the finale of season 4 that Durla, the homeworld of Chameleon Boy, was uninhabited until Grayven rewarded Ma'alefaak with it as a home for his White Martian loyalists, suggesting that in the future, these Martians evolved into the Durlans, another race of shapeshifters, but would lose their telepathy and intangibility.
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That is very much at odds with the comics DC-verse, where the Durlans exist in the present day, and have even invaded Earth... which is not to say that non-telepathic Martians didn't settle there thousands of years previously.
 
Aelryinth said:
That is very much at odds with the comics DC-verse, where the Durlans exist in the present day, and have even invaded Earth... which is not to say that non-telepathic Martians didn't settle there thousands of years previously.
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It also doesn't help that, between Metron's Mobius Chair and the Legion of Superheroes, there's now time travel involved in the canon plotline.

Anything can be anywhen and the only risk of paradox is when it's plot convenient. And even those don't make sense ninety percent of the time.

Also- Good synopsis on Martians and their fear of flame. I've been thinking half the day about how to explain that it's probably carried by the psychic memory of the species rather than the biology and couldn't find a good set of words to do so.
 
Greg Weisman probably wanted to simplify the lore of the DC universe, and at least try to connect both shapeshifting races of aliens together. That time travel stuff was also how they introduced the Phantom Zone Kryptonians, as Dru-Zod probably would have remained in the Phantom Zone for a thousand years until the Legion's time, had it not been for Lor-Zod setting him free, something Ma'alefa'ak was also party to.
 
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