I think they sold it to the Tortun last turn.
Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
I think they sold it to the Tortun last turn.
- Location
- Illinois
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Pretty sure we'd only get revanchism if we actually took land from them, which we shouldn't for reasons we've already discussed (e.g. nationalist uprisings from within even if there's no external state to pursue reclamation of the territory), and if we aren't willing to piss off the nobles every so often we'll never get anything done. It's possible coexistence will prove impossible but I see no reason to take it off the table in advance, and as for benefits to us, the most obvious is just ending the damn war way more easily than if we end up having to take them apart completely.
Cornuthaum
Be kind to each other.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ideally, *ideally*, beat them up, reinstate a monarch, take war reparations, go home.
I somehow doubt it'll go that way V:
I somehow doubt it'll go that way V:
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Huh, I missed this on my initial readthrough, but...
@Academia Nut should this be UPM or are we starting an unannounced Star Trek crossover now?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Corrected.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Correct on both?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The UPM made the Louisiana Purchase.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
that's not a no to the second part
- Location
- Illinois
Considering the Hex are a combo of Spain/France, did the Louisiana Purchase give them part of Mexico as well?
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Why would we want to reinstate an unpopular monarchy? So we can have a Second Revolution?
Sorry if this question has already been answered somewhere, but do we have Serfdom in our country? Or else some kind of corvée labour?
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We do have some kind of serfdom.
- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- Austria
Oh, yes.
Schevchenko and the like inbound.
WELP
Time for some Valuyev's circular or something
You know how some people in this quest have a thing about colonization? This one's my thing. Let's not, please.
Horologer
Incertae sedis
- Location
- a risen sea
Nope, not yet.
Crown Discussion on Euthanasia and Ritual Suicide Among the Ancient Ymaryn Relating to Anti-Ymaryn Slander
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Citizens! In recent days it has come to the attention of the Patriarch that anti-Ymaryn republican radicals have been circulating pamphlets claiming that the Ancient Ymaryn would welcome in foreign guests only to sacrifice them to their gods, and that this proves the national lack of character of the People. Lies! Lies and slander! Do not believe those saying these things, but repudiate them immediately, and then find the nearest authority to report such activities to.
-From the Minister of Internal Safety
Addendum for Distribution to Authorized Scholars and Theologians:
Recent rumours of mass sacrifice by the Ancient Ymaryn are ludicrous on the face of them, their hatred of human sacrifice was well documented, but there are a number of finer points that you should be aware of when engaging with more experienced scholars advancing these arguments, as they stem from accidental or deliberate misreadings of ancient texts.
AN: This argument came up again elsewhere. So, while some may have extrapolated the situation being worse than it was, the ancient Ymaryn bureaucrats could be utterly ruthless towards their own population in bad times, and more than a few priests went along with them. I just figured that the idea had some applicability to propaganda, and a warning about some of the things the worst members of the People's society might latch onto as justification for horrors such as eugenics and fascist movements.
-From the Minister of Internal Safety
Addendum for Distribution to Authorized Scholars and Theologians:
Recent rumours of mass sacrifice by the Ancient Ymaryn are ludicrous on the face of them, their hatred of human sacrifice was well documented, but there are a number of finer points that you should be aware of when engaging with more experienced scholars advancing these arguments, as they stem from accidental or deliberate misreadings of ancient texts.
- The ancient practice of lyllugew was a form of euthanasia practiced by ancient priests and shamans. By all accounts it was supposed to be a strictly controlled practice intended for those who were already dying, primarily the extremely elderly, grossly lamed, or terminally ill. Theoretically one was supposed to approach a priest or shaman on at least three different holy days (typically meaning approximately one month from start to end) where the priest would discuss the issue with the ill and attempt to ensure that death would be a release from pain. While obviously disturbing from a modern perspective, this practice was not in any way a form of sacrifice, and from discussion in their literature it was mostly meant for honoured members of their society at the end of their lives to pass on free of pain rather than to linger on.
- The practice of uyinjyr was simply animal sacrifice, as done by primitive societies. The vast majority of temple records in fact have to do with the maintenance of sacred herds and how many and what type of these animals were sacrificed.
- Where these foul rumours come from is a conflation of lyllugew and ujinjyr in a most gross method. There are a number of temple records originating from bureaucratic administrators outside the temple hierarchy that make the suggestion to "increase sacrifices", with the grammar strongly suggesting that these were euphemistic terms, especially as these sorts of records typically appear around times of famine and plague. Further discussion appears to have been intentionally kept off the record, but from other records it is possible that the priests would lower their standards of acceptance for euthanasia so as to reduce the number of mouths to feed. However, given the surrounding circumstances, it is also possible that the famine and plague weakened the already vulnerable members of society to the point where they entered what they felt was a terminal decline. The few discussions of priests decrying the euphemistic use of the terminology appear to come in the Middle Empire when both euthanasia and animal sacrifice were in sharp decline. However, due to record degradation there are a number of cases of dubious examples of euphemistic usage attested, and further a number of scholars with obvious agendas have claimed that the records of animal sacrifice are in fact records of human sacrifice. Given the numbers present this very well should have rendered the empire devoid of life in short order.
- This is further conflated with a phenomenon that had no specific term within Old Ymaryn, but was oft repeated within their dramatic writings and plays, what is now called 'downhill suicides'. These were cases of prominent individuals suffering some injury or failure, deciding that they had reached the peak of their ability, and choosing suicide over decline. This is a complex topic of scholarly and theological discussion, because while the plays mention it frequently, it remains unknown how prevalent it actually was. While some suggest that any individual with a minor imperfection might be pressured to kill themselves, and others suggest the phenomenon was confined to the upper classes, what evidence of the actual behaviour we have is scant and mixed. What is known is that there were many skilled individuals such as artisans, scholars, and priests who were physically lamed but lived long lives, and that there were distinct attempts to care for the mentally deficient, as in less enlightened times they were considered to be conduits for spirits to be cared for lest they reveal some prophecy or wisdom. Some rather disturbing notes suggest that alongside the potential increase in the euthanasia of elders and the chronically ill, during times of famine there was an uptick of "accidents" and "rituals gone wrong" among the least capable of these temple imbecile populations. However, there are also definitely individuals who did suffer injury of some sort who chose to kill themselves rather than continue on. The context of this is hard to tell, as while later priests decried the practice as vanity, accounts closer to the events tended to speak of things such as "self-sacrifice for the greater good". This sort of behaviour was occasionally done by those accused of serious crimes, who chose to protest their innocence in extreme ways by killing themselves rather than being found guilty.
- Somewhat related is the phenomenon of "finding new fields", which was usually a euphemism for forcing an unwelcome member of society out through passive-aggressive social ostracism. Exile was frequently a death sentence, especially as those caught without proper travel authorization could be enslaved or executed for banditry if the local authorities did not want to welcome them into their community. The reasons for community hostility were never particularly elaborated on, as this phenomenon was mostly a lower class issue, and the literates only occasionally commented on it, usually when a particularly unjustified case caused some scandal among the nobility.
- This final point ties into the also false accusation of the Ancient Ymaryn inviting individuals into their empire only to turn around and inflict slavery and death upon them. While true that the ancients were quite welcoming of outsiders in need, this was very frequently a method of demonstrating wealth and power among the upper classes. Furthermore their conception of slavery was one that an individual could only bring upon themselves via sin and criminality, hence why they were often actively opposed to other groups that were active slavers around them as they conceived of it as spreading sin and spiritual pollution. Thus when outsiders who were ignored of local norms trespassed on local laws, the punishments could result in a form of slavery or indentured servitude to the temples, who leased their labour out to the nobility but had rights of manumission. In certain phases there were a few notorious cases of outsiders choosing suicide before a trial rather than submit to judgement. Those spreading anti-Ymaryn slander will often take these examples, claim it was the norm, and then claim that all examples of euthanasia and animal sacrifice were in fact this sort of activity.
AN: This argument came up again elsewhere. So, while some may have extrapolated the situation being worse than it was, the ancient Ymaryn bureaucrats could be utterly ruthless towards their own population in bad times, and more than a few priests went along with them. I just figured that the idea had some applicability to propaganda, and a warning about some of the things the worst members of the People's society might latch onto as justification for horrors such as eugenics and fascist movements.
An elaboration is needed...and given by AN in the Discord.
- Location
- madison
I find the fact that a Ymaryn counter propaganda leaflet seems to hold itself to a decently high standard of scholarship amusing. It just strikes me as a very Ymaryn way of doing things.
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