[X] [Peace] 2 PW - Negotiate with the rest of the Coalition for the Dissolution of Tortun (Gain Wyrmyn lands, remove Humiliating Loss, Tortun Republic broken up into six Constitutional Grand Duchies, various powers gain small amounts of Tortun land, Ochruhr utterly humiliated by all powers)
[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove Recent Constitutional Changes status)

 
Tortun Republic Structure and Cultural Notes
Say @Academia Nut can you tell us some more about the inner workings of the Republic and it's general culture?

I assume you mean the Tortun Republic, which is a federal republic composed of six provinces, each of which was constructed out of a rationalization and consolidation of major groupings from the previous empire. There are three levels of assembly: the Provincial, Central, and Federal Houses. The Provincial and Federal Houses have the same general structure, just with different areas of influence and elected populations, and are elected from local districts in a FPTP method. The Central House is a bit different in that it exists at the interstice of the Provincial and Federal levels, and can be considered something of an Upper House for both the Provincial and Federal assemblies. During an election each district selects a delegate, and then in the Provincial assemblies the delegates elect a governor from among their members. Each provincial governor then appoints three people to the Central House from their province with the approval of their assembly. The Central House members have veto power over the decisions of their province's assembly with unanimous agreement, and collectively have veto power over the Federal House with a majority of all Central House members, but otherwise have no ability to put forward bills for discussion in either house, although their opinion is considered very important. Critically, the Central House elects the First Citizen, who has executive authority over the functions of the Republic but no (direct) legislative power. The positions of governor, Central House member, and First Citizen can all be subject to electoral recall if a petition of sufficient weight to call an election is met, but this function has never really been used yet.

One notes that the executive positions have no direct elective input, although this was a combination of compromise and accident from the first two years where they were trying to balance various regional and factional issues. The first (and thus far only) First Citizen, Faron vyn Hohozyn, stood for election in the Federal House but was quickly elevated to First Citizen while they were still working out how elections worked. Since then a combination of being beloved by the citizenship, a desire by many that he retain executive control because he is so damn good at it, and natural human oligarchic impulses has lead the system into its current incarnation, where Faron has a tremendous amount of pull in ensuring that the Central House is filled with people who will support him and continue to elect him.

Culturally they are very much Not!German, but since they are being lead by Not!Saxony they are very much not the Prussian or Bavarian stereotypes that the Anglosphere characterizes all of Germany as being. They like their beer but wine is good too, they are industrious and hardworking but they aren't into the whole Prussian militarism thing, even if they fight with ferocity and discipline when push comes to shove. Mostly they were sick of the ridiculous factionalism that plagued their lands before, be it the fine divisions of land by the nobility and squabbling about inheritance or questions of religion. Faron and the republic swept away a lot of bullshit from the old order, and a great deal of their success even among the nobility was freeing them from those prior restraints. A lot of the lower and middle nobility actually saw their situations improve if they signed up early and without fuss as the Republic made a habit of at least partially compensating people who came willingly to encourage compliance, and often getting half the amount of land in a consolidated block meant that you went from having no usable land to suddenly being very prosperous indeed. With compliant ex-nobility also tending to have political education and experience, the nobles who had no prospect of advancement in prior eras suddenly were in high level federal positions that would have been impossible just a few years earlier without a direct familial relationship to the major dynasties. Since they never had any overarching guild structure for the entire nation the same way the People do, the local guilds were all either smashed for resisting the Republic or were forced to reincorporate in order to facilitate the freedom of internal movement edicts passed.

All in all, while the wars have been extremely trying, the overall unification efforts were borne out of a general sense of exhaustion with the old ways of doing things, and most of those opposed to the Republic were either killed in military action or fled to the Ochruhr early on, minimizing the internal tensions that caused so many problems for the Revolutionary Hespranxer.

Actually, that reminds me - @Academia Nut, what information did we get with our Keep Tabs last main turn, about Tortun and Nohon?

And, since you are in the thread, can we expect an update today?

Welp, glad that the winning options will include an 1819 turn because I completely forgot about that!

Will update tomorrow.
 
I assume you mean the Tortun Republic, which is a federal republic composed of six provinces, each of which was constructed out of a rationalization and consolidation of major groupings from the previous empire. There are three levels of assembly: the Provincial, Central, and Federal Houses. The Provincial and Federal Houses have the same general structure, just with different areas of influence and elected populations, and are elected from local districts in a FPTP method. The Central House is a bit different in that it exists at the interstice of the Provincial and Federal levels, and can be considered something of an Upper House for both the Provincial and Federal assemblies. During an election each district selects a delegate, and then in the Provincial assemblies the delegates elect a governor from among their members. Each provincial governor then appoints three people to the Central House from their province with the approval of their assembly. The Central House members have veto power over the decisions of their province's assembly with unanimous agreement, and collectively have veto power over the Federal House with a majority of all Central House members, but otherwise have no ability to put forward bills for discussion in either house, although their opinion is considered very important. Critically, the Central House elects the First Citizen, who has executive authority over the functions of the Republic but no (direct) legislative power. The positions of governor, Central House member, and First Citizen can all be subject to electoral recall if a petition of sufficient weight to call an election is met, but this function has never really been used yet.

One notes that the executive positions have no direct elective input, although this was a combination of compromise and accident from the first two years where they were trying to balance various regional and factional issues. The first (and thus far only) First Citizen, Faron vyn Hohozyn, stood for election in the Federal House but was quickly elevated to First Citizen while they were still working out how elections worked. Since then a combination of being beloved by the citizenship, a desire by many that he retain executive control because he is so damn good at it, and natural human oligarchic impulses has lead the system into its current incarnation, where Faron has a tremendous amount of pull in ensuring that the Central House is filled with people who will support him and continue to elect him.

Culturally they are very much Not!German, but since they are being lead by Not!Saxony they are very much not the Prussian or Bavarian stereotypes that the Anglosphere characterizes all of Germany as being. They like their beer but wine is good too, they are industrious and hardworking but they aren't into the whole Prussian militarism thing, even if they fight with ferocity and discipline when push comes to shove. Mostly they were sick of the ridiculous factionalism that plagued their lands before, be it the fine divisions of land by the nobility and squabbling about inheritance or questions of religion. Faron and the republic swept away a lot of bullshit from the old order, and a great deal of their success even among the nobility was freeing them from those prior restraints. A lot of the lower and middle nobility actually saw their situations improve if they signed up early and without fuss as the Republic made a habit of at least partially compensating people who came willingly to encourage compliance, and often getting half the amount of land in a consolidated block meant that you went from having no usable land to suddenly being very prosperous indeed. With compliant ex-nobility also tending to have political education and experience, the nobles who had no prospect of advancement in prior eras suddenly were in high level federal positions that would have been impossible just a few years earlier without a direct familial relationship to the major dynasties. Since they never had any overarching guild structure for the entire nation the same way the People do, the local guilds were all either smashed for resisting the Republic or were forced to reincorporate in order to facilitate the freedom of internal movement edicts passed.

All in all, while the wars have been extremely trying, the overall unification efforts were borne out of a general sense of exhaustion with the old ways of doing things, and most of those opposed to the Republic were either killed in military action or fled to the Ochruhr early on, minimizing the internal tensions that caused so many problems for the Revolutionary Hespranxer.
*wipes away tear*

It's beautiful.
Wait.....guys, are we the baddies in this scenario?
Yes.
 
Wait.....guys, are we the baddies in this scenario?

Well you did help set the stage for multiple bloody revolutions and war, then aggressively took a swing at a puppet republic that was a threat to you because you controlled land that contained the same ethnicity as them and it spooked your population, then lost and conceded land and so took another swing a few years later, and are now trying to dismantle a mostly functional republic born out of frustration with aristocratic incompetence because it offends your sensibilities.
 
Well you did help set the stage for multiple bloody revolutions and war, then aggressively took a swing at a puppet republic that was a threat to you because you controlled land that contained the same ethnicity as them and it spooked your population, then lost and conceded land and so took another swing a few years later, and are now trying to dismantle a mostly functional republic born out of frustration with aristocratic incompetence because it offends your sensibilities.
The fire is of warm?
 
Well you did help set the stage for multiple bloody revolutions and war, then aggressively took a swing at a puppet republic that was a threat to you because you controlled land that contained the same ethnicity as them and it spooked your population, then lost and conceded land and so took another swing a few years later, and are now trying to dismantle a mostly functional republic born out of frustration with aristocratic incompetence because it offends your sensibilities.

Pure coincidence, no one could have forseen what some vocal minority with funny ideas about "rights" can make such a mess. ;)
 
[X] [Peace] 0 PW - Take the Wyrmyn territories you have conquered and let everyone else figure things out (-2 Temp Trust, gain Wyrmyn lands, may not count as avenging Humiliating Loss)

You know what? Sure, the humiliating loss last for just two more turns. Let them serve as a warning that if they do not shape up, the same will happen to us.

This also allows us more Political Will to use next turn on the Guild Issue

[X] [Guilds] 1 PW - Allow the dissolution but do not address the larger issue of the guilds (-1 Temp Happiness, +1 Temp Consciousness, remove RecentConstitutional Changes status)
 
Weve gone full batman. We've ived long enough to become the baddy.

Damn you not!Temujin, shouldve done a better job at fucking up our nobility.

I blame phygrif for this. Hes involved somehow, from beyond the grave/oblivion.
 
Weve gone full batman. We've ived long enough to become the baddy.

Damn you not!Temujin, shouldve done a better job at fucking up our nobility.

I blame phygrif for this. Hes involved somehow, from beyond the grave/oblivion.
Personally, I blame Faron for not being successful enough.

If he was better, he could have just beaten us and all of Europe at the same time, and we could all be super good functional republics!
What a slacker :V
 
Well you did help set the stage for multiple bloody revolutions and war, then aggressively took a swing at a puppet republic that was a threat to you because you controlled land that contained the same ethnicity as them and it spooked your population, then lost and conceded land and so took another swing a few years later, and are now trying to dismantle a mostly functional republic born out of frustration with aristocratic incompetence because it offends your sensibilities.
Putin would approve of this version of Russia, is what you're saying
 
Wait.....guys, are we the baddies in this scenario?

A little, but we specifically stayed out of this whole mess while it was purely ideological and only entered it when it could be reasonably construed as self-defense.

So it's not as though we have anything against Republics - just against ones that try to un-partition lands we partitioned fair and square.
Adhoc vote count started by SeptimusMagisto on Mar 16, 2018 at 1:32 PM, finished with 213 posts and 79 votes.
 
A little, but we specifically stayed out of this whole mess while it was purely ideological and only entered it when it could be reasonably construed as self-defense.

So it's not as though we have anything against Republics - just against ones that try to un-partition lands we partitioned fair and square.
Yes, because taking away another people's land is okay so long as you bring friends along.
 
Now that I think about it, I'm actually a bit miffed that the less humilating [Peace] option costs less PW than the one our people demand. An argument could even be made that we should actually gain PW for revenging the 'Humiliating Loss'.
 
I assume you mean the Tortun Republic, which is a federal republic composed of six provinces, each of which was constructed out of a rationalization and consolidation of major groupings from the previous empire. There are three levels of assembly: the Provincial, Central, and Federal Houses. The Provincial and Federal Houses have the same general structure, just with different areas of influence and elected populations, and are elected from local districts in a FPTP method. The Central House is a bit different in that it exists at the interstice of the Provincial and Federal levels, and can be considered something of an Upper House for both the Provincial and Federal assemblies. During an election each district selects a delegate, and then in the Provincial assemblies the delegates elect a governor from among their members. Each provincial governor then appoints three people to the Central House from their province with the approval of their assembly. The Central House members have veto power over the decisions of their province's assembly with unanimous agreement, and collectively have veto power over the Federal House with a majority of all Central House members, but otherwise have no ability to put forward bills for discussion in either house, although their opinion is considered very important. Critically, the Central House elects the First Citizen, who has executive authority over the functions of the Republic but no (direct) legislative power. The positions of governor, Central House member, and First Citizen can all be subject to electoral recall if a petition of sufficient weight to call an election is met, but this function has never really been used yet.

One notes that the executive positions have no direct elective input, although this was a combination of compromise and accident from the first two years where they were trying to balance various regional and factional issues. The first (and thus far only) First Citizen, Faron vyn Hohozyn, stood for election in the Federal House but was quickly elevated to First Citizen while they were still working out how elections worked. Since then a combination of being beloved by the citizenship, a desire by many that he retain executive control because he is so damn good at it, and natural human oligarchic impulses has lead the system into its current incarnation, where Faron has a tremendous amount of pull in ensuring that the Central House is filled with people who will support him and continue to elect him.

Culturally they are very much Not!German, but since they are being lead by Not!Saxony they are very much not the Prussian or Bavarian stereotypes that the Anglosphere characterizes all of Germany as being. They like their beer but wine is good too, they are industrious and hardworking but they aren't into the whole Prussian militarism thing, even if they fight with ferocity and discipline when push comes to shove. Mostly they were sick of the ridiculous factionalism that plagued their lands before, be it the fine divisions of land by the nobility and squabbling about inheritance or questions of religion. Faron and the republic swept away a lot of bullshit from the old order, and a great deal of their success even among the nobility was freeing them from those prior restraints. A lot of the lower and middle nobility actually saw their situations improve if they signed up early and without fuss as the Republic made a habit of at least partially compensating people who came willingly to encourage compliance, and often getting half the amount of land in a consolidated block meant that you went from having no usable land to suddenly being very prosperous indeed. With compliant ex-nobility also tending to have political education and experience, the nobles who had no prospect of advancement in prior eras suddenly were in high level federal positions that would have been impossible just a few years earlier without a direct familial relationship to the major dynasties. Since they never had any overarching guild structure for the entire nation the same way the People do, the local guilds were all either smashed for resisting the Republic or were forced to reincorporate in order to facilitate the freedom of internal movement edicts passed.

All in all, while the wars have been extremely trying, the overall unification efforts were borne out of a general sense of exhaustion with the old ways of doing things, and most of those opposed to the Republic were either killed in military action or fled to the Ochruhr early on, minimizing the internal tensions that caused so many problems for the Revolutionary Hespranxer.



Welp, glad that the winning options will include an 1819 turn because I completely forgot about that!

Will update tomorrow.

What I'm getting from this is that we pretty much got best outcome regarding a Tortun unification. A functioning liberal (for the time) republic untainted by the militarism that player a major role in the otl!German Empire.

And we're going to destroy it...
 
What I'm getting from this is that we pretty much got best outcome regarding a Tortun unification. A functioning liberal (for the time) republic untainted by the militarism that player a major role in the otl!German Empire.

And we're going to destroy it...
Can't have nice things....
Well, if they didn't want to fight us, they should've eased up on a "We are gonna beat you and take your land" rhetoric.
They weren't going to take our land. They were going to liberate their land that we had taken from them.
 
What I'm getting from this is that we pretty much got best outcome regarding a Tortun unification. A functioning liberal (for the time) republic untainted by the militarism that player a major role in the otl!German Empire.

And we're going to destroy it...

Wouldnt it be a bitch if we became the proverbial France to their Germany?

Crow's reach transcends all, for this potential karma could only be His.
 
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