- Location
- Australia
in fact at the end of this the king of Behryvar (if he is still alive) is going to be like the only Tortun royal left.
Edit
Not counting the Ochruhr one who we are about to kill
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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization
in fact at the end of this the king of Behryvar (if he is still alive) is going to be like the only Tortun royal left.
Edit
Not counting the Ochruhr one who we are about to kill
- Location
- Illinois
AN confirmed that the royal family fled to the Hes, since the Hes king was actually the Crown Prince of Behryvar orignally.
Reasons I picked the liberate Behyvar option:
- We got into this war at the request of, among others, Behyvar. Behyvar have been a solid trading partner, a useful holder of troublemaker lands that we don't want and not troublemakers themselves. They're a good neighbour who will be deeply tied to us by the rescue.
- Concentrating our efforts in Behyvar gives a strategic advantage in the war with the Ochruhr to which we are also committed.
- Our objective of demonstrating that any radical revolutionaries who come near us get thoroughly minced has already been achieved. Our regional friends Kielmyr and Styrmyr are no longer at risk. With the liberation of Behyvar all the practical reasons for fighting the Federation will be satisfied.*
- We have no pressing need for them to be ended as quickly as possible. Sorting out Syffryn messes in their totality is not our job and we don't want it to be. There are people all over the world with political philosophies inimical to us but it doesn't mean we need them dead.
- It is actively against our global strategic interests to give Hexpranr and especially Sketch a free ride here when we've already spent a great deal of blood and treasure, not to mention the opportunity cost. Both the drive to the sea and the destruction of field armies options leave the Sketch with very little to do and a just raised army with which to make mischief.
- If we take the drive to the sea then, when the Federation duly collapse, we'll still have to liberate Behyvar by force because the Ochruhr are placed to take advantage.
I actually see liberating Beheryvar as being highly advantageous to the Hespranxer and Sketch compared to us marching to the sea. The former allows them to occupy a significant portion of the Federation at little cost to themselves, whereas the latter ensures that it is under our control.
A big part of the relative power each nation will have over the direction of the peace conference will be based on how much territory that they have occupied.
That said, I still think that liberation is more in our interests than maximizing our peace conference influence.
A big part of the relative power each nation will have over the direction of the peace conference will be based on how much territory that they have occupied.
That said, I still think that liberation is more in our interests than maximizing our peace conference influence.
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Thinking it through I have an idea. What if we bank PW (by gathering support at happiness 7) and spend a frickton of PW to form the United Nations.
An attack on one is an attack on all. All treaty members in the area agree borders can only change by mutual concent and any attacks within Saffron are met by a war dec from everyone else.
We back this by being the first signatory.
I think the idea of our army A) agreeing to NEVER invade, and B) rushing to their defense if THEY are invaded would be VERY attractive to the Saffron states still rebuilding their armies.
Individual nations may only make war on one another by ether mutual concent or if one side gets a supermajority of signatories to agree the war is justified.
And we do one nation, one vote. No matter how large or small the nation.
Peace on our Wester border supported by EVERYONE in Saffron.
Skirmishes over overseas holdings are fair game, but NO ATTACKING EACHOTHER IN SAFFRON. Ship your armies OUT and fight in the land yoi are fighting OVER. And NO attacking trade ships of any signatory memeber by any other.
Then we let Tortun create a Tortun republic.
With LUCK Saffron will descalate and dial down their armies as fear of their neighbours and hope of invading them will go down.
And then we start talking "Favored Trade Zones." And "Increasing exchanges of goods and culture."
An attack on one is an attack on all. All treaty members in the area agree borders can only change by mutual concent and any attacks within Saffron are met by a war dec from everyone else.
We back this by being the first signatory.
I think the idea of our army A) agreeing to NEVER invade, and B) rushing to their defense if THEY are invaded would be VERY attractive to the Saffron states still rebuilding their armies.
Individual nations may only make war on one another by ether mutual concent or if one side gets a supermajority of signatories to agree the war is justified.
And we do one nation, one vote. No matter how large or small the nation.
Peace on our Wester border supported by EVERYONE in Saffron.
Skirmishes over overseas holdings are fair game, but NO ATTACKING EACHOTHER IN SAFFRON. Ship your armies OUT and fight in the land yoi are fighting OVER. And NO attacking trade ships of any signatory memeber by any other.
Then we let Tortun create a Tortun republic.
With LUCK Saffron will descalate and dial down their armies as fear of their neighbours and hope of invading them will go down.
And then we start talking "Favored Trade Zones." And "Increasing exchanges of goods and culture."
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Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
Easy enough in theory yes.
But chances are we would never be able to afford it. And like not even in terms of resources, but simply in terms sheer Political Will.
The fact of the matter is that the Tortun Lands are ridiculously resource rich, and we will have spend millions of lives to get it and hold it. Now remember, our generals, military personnels and Nobles are all in the military, since exemplary military services gives immigrants and ordinary people the opportunity to gain titles and lands to rule over. And we have just raised several huge armies which have been crushing two other colossi national warmachines due to personal initiative.
This means that by the war's ends, we will have a shitton more minor nobles who have earned enough merits to ask for new Lands, newly titled military officers who will want lands and etc. And all of them would have spent blood and sweat and lost friends and loved ones to take and hold Tortun Lands, which creates a bit of an problem of entitlement.
Now, we could just have them settle kyberia, but Kyberia is still poor and backwater, and its resources are underdevelopped, but Tortun Lands even ravaged are ridiculously productive. The exemplary officers from this war are not going to settle for poor ass lands when they feel that they have earned the right to have much more.
Basically assuming we could even afford the PW cost of not taking Tortun Lands, narratively good chances that Nokly gets deposed in a military coup afterwards.
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- Location
- Illinois
You'd need about 10 turns of pure DO to get that, tbh. Like, it took two World Wars, nukes, a nation so hyper dominate that it could all but dictate all the terms it wanted, and the Korean War to get the UN working in the OTL. You're going to need a pretty strong foundation to make it a century early.
We ar basically that dominant over everything from Hes East. We may not get Hes in the agreement, but we are more or less THE ONLY ARMY.
Or WILL BE aftwe we deal with Ochior.
And I am counting somewhat on all the governments to realize how close they all came to death and maybe realize we are saying "next time you are screwed unless you sign."
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Valarauko
Demon of Power
- Location
- Angband
Not how it works. PW is domestic political capital, not diplomatic.
- Location
- Illinois
Sketch, Hes, and Nohon can and would oppose us, and without them, whatever UN we try to make would fail almost immediately.
Not to mention, 'join or die' is not how you make the UN.
We spend PW on all peace deals so far. Alternatively we temp diplo outreach x a bunch right before the peace deal. +2 temp trust a hit we should be able to hit 20-30 trust on demand.
Valarauko
Demon of Power
- Location
- Angband
That's the effort it takes to make it acceptable to our side and to make it work.
No, that is the amount of work for us to get large chunks of Saffron to trust us enough to give it a go. We spend 5-10 temp SoL in rebuilding Saffron and they trust us this once to do something new.
NEXT turn
DI x4, gather support x X where X is the remaining PW.
Then as the war seems to be winding down we do the following.
Raise temp SoL 10, temp diplo outreach 10 (20 PW is not out of the question if we have 10 PW to spend next turn.)
And we go into the post war convention looking like LITERAL saints.
Dream BIG or accept that we will just be doing this again in 4 turns.
Worst case we still have stupid high trust for a few turns and use it to blitz espionage networks.
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- Location
- Snowbound Wilderness
[X] [Needle] Yes - Practical Breechloading Rifles and Universal Rifling Complete immediately, elite units begin fielding the weapon in small numbers immediately, other military RP gains suppressed for the round
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
[X] [Needle] Yes - Practical Breechloading Rifles and Universal Rifling Complete immediately, elite units begin fielding the weapon in small numbers immediately, other military RP gains suppressed for the round
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
PyroTechno
The Procrastination Pokemon
So I think I've figured out the thread's problem right now.
At some point, Tortun acquired boats.
At some point, Tortun acquired boats.
- Location
- Illinois
Well, they did merge with the navally inclined Halvyni...
Sounds legit.
Stop: STOP DOING IT
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
stop doing it
If you know you're being an ass, stop. If you're dancing too close to 'just kill them all' advocacy, since you've been warned about this before in PoC, you get 25 points and a 3 day threadban. Stop that.
So speaketh Strype the Commissar
So speaketh Strype the Commissar
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- Location
- New York
[X] [Needle] Yes - Practical Breechloading Rifles and Universal Rifling Complete immediately, elite units begin fielding the weapon in small numbers immediately, other military RP gains suppressed for the round
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
Guys I think its to late to stop a SuperGermany from hating us. We have marched our armies 3-4 times into Tortun lands in the last generation. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell will hate the people that burned my grandfathers land, my fathers land, and potentially my own land. Best we just conquer them and see that if a Germany forms, at least they wont be as powerful. (We can also release the Tortuns as a puppet state later on, if things get really out of control) I'm also fairly certain the nationalistic movement has been taking a smashing lately, due to the massive amounts of deaths and constant failed reunification attempts. In summation, we gain more while risking less with this option.
[X] [War] Tear their heart out (Punch through to the sea)
Guys I think its to late to stop a SuperGermany from hating us. We have marched our armies 3-4 times into Tortun lands in the last generation. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell will hate the people that burned my grandfathers land, my fathers land, and potentially my own land. Best we just conquer them and see that if a Germany forms, at least they wont be as powerful. (We can also release the Tortuns as a puppet state later on, if things get really out of control) I'm also fairly certain the nationalistic movement has been taking a smashing lately, due to the massive amounts of deaths and constant failed reunification attempts. In summation, we gain more while risking less with this option.
- Location
- Illinois
This is actually the first time we've entered their lands. The wars of revolution always had us outside their borders, with even the victory of the third coalition coming only after we finished mowing our way through the Wymyrn, at which time Faron realized he couldn't win and folded before too much damage was done.
Also, holding them for any length of time will have us bleed PW, and trying to let them go will force us to fight pretty much every factions, burning yet more PW.
With our attention needed to the east, we can't afford the PW costs holding them personally would entail.
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What part of 'conquering a huge nation full of people who hate us is even worse than fighting one at war, because if we conquer them we're supposed to treat them like people' is so hard to grasp?
Shooting soldiers is very much more acceptable than shooting rioters, and with our army capacity I'll take a straight war over insurgency bullshit every day. Just look at the suffering of the US in this last 50 years. War winning capacity doesn't do anything if there's no government to defeat.
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- Location
- New York
Because we can release a puppet nation at our leisure. By not annexing them, you are once again throwing the fate of Tortun into the wind. Whats to stop Beheryvar from immediately declaring us a rival and diploannexing all the Tortun lands to attack us? Better that we have free reign to do whatever we want to the Tortuns since we would be their government.
I do not care. Let them attack us. I love people attacking us, the best army in the world, head first when they can't possibly win. Free military RP! If they keep doing this stupid shit we might get to rush machine guns!
If they attack us unprovoked, we beat them and don't take their useless, Tortun-infested land. That way we also boost our other formidable rep, as really nice guys.
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- Location
- Illinois
Behyvar should be grateful, though yes, it is a risk that they'll turn on us. But at this point, there really isn't a great solution to all this due to the Federation driving the Tortuns into a frenzy.
It's really a matter of whether you think the Tortun will be enough of a threat in 20 years to warrant massive PW expenditures on our part, as well as whether you believe the Behryvar are likely to be able to hold onto the Tortun without being consumed by them.
Personally, with all the internal development we need to do, as well as the Hung and our power block needing support, I don't think we have the time or PW to invest in holding Tortun, especially not when it's going to have a lot of friction with the Wyrmyn.
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