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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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After hearing criticism, I have adjusted the story more than a little. First of all, I have explained that the Hung Emperor deliberately asked that the guns not come by land because he felt the necessary military escort from you would impair his own legitimacy. Second, I am changing the story around that while it has been reported that all the guns were lost, what most likely happened was that the governors were shunting sections aside to claim 'losses due to bandit attack' to attempt to cajole more resources out of all of the central government so that they could then 'heroically recover' the goods later. Only about a third to at most a half went missing, but some did end up in the hand of rebelling provinces, which took them from 'problem' to 'threat', especially as some governors realize that they will be on the chopping block.

Third, I have made it explicit that if this was the Sketch that whatever happened in the Black Sheep probably blew up their own plans, and that you will have to wait and see what their actual government response is to know better what is actually going on there.
 
Horologer said:
Research needs to be EM theory, IMO.
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No, it needs to be Organic Chemistry.

Organic Chemistry > Better Explosives(guncotton, nitroglycerine,dynamite).
Better Explosives = drop in cost for Railroads, better artillery, and opens up the Suez megaproject.
Also we may get a Medicine drip off that because better drugs.

Similarly, Inorganic Chemistry = better alloys, Cheap Steel drip, Telegraphy drip, possibly better glass.
 
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Academia Nut said:
After hearing criticism, I have adjusted the story more than a little. First of all, I have explained that the Hung Emperor deliberately asked that the guns not come by land because he felt the necessary military escort from you would impair his own legitimacy. Second, I am changing the story around that while it has been reported that all the guns were lost, what most likely happened was that the governors were shunting sections aside to claim 'losses due to bandit attack' to attempt to cajole more resources out of all of the central government so that they could then 'heroically recover' the goods later. Only about a third to at most a half went missing, but some did end up in the hand of rebelling provinces, which took them from 'problem' to 'threat', especially as some governors realize that they will be on the chopping block.

Third, I have made it explicit that if this was the Sketch that whatever happened in the Black Sheep probably blew up their own plans, and that you will have to wait and see what their actual government response is to know better what is actually going on there.
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Thank you, it's still a bad series of events, but it's a lot less SoD breaking then the old version, and can be chalked up to bad luck and enemy action, rather than infallible god ninjas that can't be detected and always critically succeed.
 
So, one thing we might want to consider is to see if we can contain the BS rebels and then send a DO to them. If we can resolve the civil war peacefully, before it is too late and too much blood is spilled, we can potentially save the BS.
 
Added in the second Mil Academy options

[][Research2] Mid 19th​ Century Army Doctrine (0/???) [Military][Army][Closed]
[][Research2] Universal Officer Literacy (23/60-80?) [Military][Initiative][Open]
[][Research2] Breechloading Cannon (0/???) [Military][Weaponry][Open]
 
Alectai said:
What happened, basically, is that we marched the shipment to the Emperor's territory, to someone he vouched for, and that fucker took the guns and handed them to the rebels instead while turning his coat.

Because clearly, nothing can go wrong with offending the gigantic empire that had sold them, while also spitting in your nominal leader's face in the process. Especially if you have 300,000 guns and convenient instructors ready to teach them how to use them!
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300k guns, ammo and black powder is at least 5000 tons in shipping volume. This is at least 10 cargo ships or so plus escorts. Even 1/3 of that is physically massive.

This isn't the age where you can sling a few tons into a truck and you are good to move. This is such a logistical challenge to move any sufficient quantity it would be challenging. What the hell did our merchant navy do, leave the guns on someone's door unattended?
 
uju32 said:
No, it needs to be Organic Chemistry.

Organic Chemistry > Better Explosives(guncotton, nitroglycerine,dynamite).
Better Explosives = drop in cost for Railroads, better artillery, and opens up the Suez megaproject.
Also we get a Medicine drip off that.

Similarly, Inorganic Chemistry = better alloys, Cheap Steel drip, possibly better glass.
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I'm not disputing that Chemistry has better immediate benefits, but that's not quite my point.

I believe EM Theory is likely to be faster than researching both kinds of Chemistry, and given the massive amount of RP we have sunk into this project, I believe that getting it back on track quickly– and therefore getting returns from all that RP quickly– takes precedence.

It's a good question, though. @Academia Nut which research option is likely to finish the fastest?
 
Horologer said:
I'm not disputing that Chemistry has better immediate benefits, but that's not quite my point.

I believe EM Theory is likely to be faster than researching both kinds of Chemistry, and given the massive amount of RP we have sunk into this project, I believe that getting it back on track quickly– and therefore getting returns from all that RP quickly– takes precedence.

It's a good question, though. @Academia Nut which research option is likely to finish the fastest?
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We need both the Chemistries though, and inno should also go a long way to speeding us forward in them. Plus, tbh, we aren't really in a position to be building hospitals any time soon, so slower research for more gains is perfectly acceptable.
 
Academia Nut said:
Third, I have made it explicit that if this was the Sketch that whatever happened in the Black Sheep probably blew up their own plans, and that you will have to wait and see what their actual government response is to know better what is actually going on there.
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would their plans being upended actually impeded the sketch in any meaningful way? their entire thing seems to be they get to take 2 or 3 turns worth of actions and do a shit ton of fast reactions but have issues with long-term plans. They seem perfectly suited to taking advantage of a sudden shift.
 
random_npc said:
would their plans being upended actually impeded the sketch in any meaningful way? their entire thing seems to be they get to take 2 or 3 turns worth of actions and do a shit ton of fast reactions but have issues with long-term plans. They seem perfectly suited to taking advantage of a sudden shift.
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There is a reason why those mercies are small.
 
@Academia Nut

Is it likely that starting the Kus rail line and targeting the rebels with a DO will help their Feeling Ignored situation? The rail will pass through their territory and require massive development of their land while connecting them to the new capitol, after all.

Basically, the rebels want senpai to notice them. I'm wondering if doing so will actually solve things.
 
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Horologer said:
I believe EM Theory is likely to be faster than researching both kinds of Chemistry, and given the massive amount of RP we have sunk into this project, I believe that getting it back on track quickly– and therefore getting returns from all that RP quickly– takes precedence.
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I rather doubt that:
Organic Chemistry (10/40-50?) [Science][Chemistry][Open]
Inorganic Chemistry (17/40-50?) [Science][Chemistry][Open]
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That's roughly 70 points of research to finish at the high end.

EM Theory is ???, which means anything from 50 points upwards; I've never seen any of those with less than 50 points to complete.
Then you need a Hospital, which we can't currently afford.
So better to take the route that provides known benefits as you move along.
 
Xon said:
300k guns, ammo and black powder is at least 5000 tons in shipping volume. This is at least 10 cargo ships or so plus escorts. Even 1/3 of that is physically massive.

This isn't the age where you can sling a few tons into a truck and you are good to move. This is such a logistical challenge to move any sufficient quantity it would be challenging. What the hell did our merchant navy do, leave the guns on someone's door unattended?
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Basically you got them there all right in about a dozen sea shipments over a year, and then they were broken up into dozens of minor caravans. The travel time was several months of caravan and river shipping through 'safe' provinces, but between the start and the end everything disappeared, and guns started appearing in the hands of rebelling provinces and brigands.

So what likely happened was that the governors were taking the caravans aside. In some places they skimmed a couple of crates off the top here or there. In others they made the smaller caravans 'disappear' because they wouldn't be missed because they were all so small, and if anyone came looking the supplies could be conjured up after sending out the militia. After all, their province is hurting so bad they could use the extra supplies, either directly or from the central authority to deal with their 'bandit' issues. Only, all the provinces were hurting, and the games they used to play are now so much more destructive than they thought they were, because the skimming turned large caravans into small ones, and many into isolated ones, so what every governor along the way thought was a meaningless pinprick that wouldn't be noticed ended up with the Emperor receiving so little he went "Where is everything?"

There is a long communication lag causing problems too.
 
And the Emperor can't go ham on all of the Governors because that would drive them to rebel out of fear for their miserable lives.

 
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Note: You don't need to specify a buyer when you sell obsolete equipment
  • Informational
    • Also, for future reference, you don't need a target for Sell Obsolete Equipment right away. If you take the action you will normally get a list of potential buyers at the next action and what each can offer in terms of rewards. You just all specified the Hung right away. I didn't even catch on to the fact that this was unclear as everyone specified and didn't ask so I went "Oh, they just really want to sell to Hung and didn't ask for clarification, doodly-doodlyd-doo that's fair".
     
  • Informational
    • Heck with it, I can make plans since my party is largely uninvolved with the international debacles.

    Urban Worker Party: Despite the flurry and fury flying about, we still need to expand our Industry!

    Any Political Support you can throw my way will be put into Development until we hit cap (3-5 Political Will)
     
    Hmm. The Ochruhr have been unusually quiet since we kicked their faces in. I suspect them of plotting. I mean, a Scetch Faction is also involved, but these guys almost pulled off a continent-wide revolt. Disregarding their plotting potential means they will stab us again later.

    Anyway, how internally stable are we? Best look internally for diseases before looking outwards for bullets. No one nation will attack us, so that means Coalition wars or espionage.

    Whenever I play games like EU4 or Hearts or Iron 4, I usually go expansionist until I'm powerful enough to kill multiple 1st class nations, then tech up till the endgame. I know just how much of a pain rebels and internal factions can be, so I go high stability and have at least one army on standby to smash or suppress rebels so my nation doesn't implode. I'm usually sitting on a pile of money that's 1/5 my manpower pool. :)

    I'll be satisfied when Nohon is crushed, The Black Sheep are our near permanent allies, and the Hung are no longer a massive pain in our backside, no matter how sane and likable our wife is. Once that is dealt with, we can develop and tech up at our leisure while waiting for a war in Europe or North America.

    Also, I have to ask, what is going on in The Most Ancient Kingdom Under God? Nobody has looked at them for the last twenty years. We need eyes down there, because I don't want another Ochruhr: some really small nation that goes espionage that's right next to us that screws with us.
     
    Discord Quote

    AN Discord said:
    >What do our diplomats think is the best deal we could get out of negotiations at this point?

    Both sides are going to dig in their heels over honour, BUT if you try to get them both to negotiate then you will at least appear honourable. Of course you must support the legitimate authority of the Black Emperor, but you acknowledge the honour of the warriors you have fought and trained with. While delaying might make the military option worse, you might be able to improve long term opinion of you by both sides of the issue, and at the very least will mitigate the worst of the bad blood that might be directed your way
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    Also, because of the way the Black Sheep civil war broke out, if you go Containment and then send a DO to both belligerents there is a good chance that you can at least mitigate the bad blood between you and them, and might even be able to mitigate the bad blood between each other.
     
    Sivantic said:
    Thoughts, everyone?

    I personally want to push forth four Trans-Kyberian Railway Projects(not all at once) to finally remove the Undeveloped Hinterlands malus and then push for the Kale-Yllthon Railway Company. Set that on automatic with additional support whenever we can spare the budget.
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    We need Kale-Yllthon Railway for the Triple Crown to better link them to us (and get rid of that -1 SoL malus from the IC free railroad company), and Valleyhome-Kus Railway as an industrial-diplomancer action for Black Sheep by building a rail link from the West to the East.

    With Containment, and diplomancer actions we should be able to hold the Black Sheep together for at least a turns.
     
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