Well, i mean, what worthier cause than trying to secure lasting peace on our western border? And i don't really see that much of an overstretch. Khem are doing better than ever, same goes for the Sheep and once Tortun blows up again we will have to leave the Hung to fend for themselves anyways if we want to preserve our international reputation. Trying to get the hard parts out of the way right now, when we have tons of everything because of our concon and successful navigation of the economic crisis might be better than doing so later.

Because we have to occupy the Tortun one day if we want to stabilize the area. Why not now, when the conditions are favorable?

Something is inevitably going to blow up. Let us not add more things to our plate.
 
3. due to the fact that the revolutionaries have already ripped through the area the people in the government before are already dead.
3b. To our current information none of the refugees were members of said government
Much of the government, including the royal family, has fled to Hes actually. So we have a base to rebuild the government off fairly easily.


Also, the Behvyarians are quite strong themselves. The Tortun won't be able to abuse them like you fear. Behryvar was explicitly nearly as industrialized as all of the DC was. Not to mention that, while thankful, the Beh aren't going to be interested in us staying around for too long. Just long enough to beat the shit out of the Federation.
 
Something is inevitably going to blow up. Let us not add more things to our plate.

Thing is, this is already on our plate. The moment we decided to guarantee the status quo in Syffryn by military force we loaded everything that happens on the continent on our plate.

Also, the Behvyarians are quite strong themselves. The Tortun won't be able to abuse them like you fear. Behryvar was explicitly nearly as industrialized as all of the DC was. Not to mention that, while thankful, the Beh aren't going to be interested in us staying around for too long. Just long enough to beat the shit out of the Federation.

The Behryvar are Tortuns. Chances are that now that their rather competent monarchy is gone nationalist tendencies will infect them as well.
 
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Whole point of empire is to keep culturally different people under control while they remain productive*? We do have the iron fist of giant army to keep Wyrmyns from killing Toruns or vice versa.

*I'm against eating more land for the record.

We would basically jeopardize one of our core populations because of foreign people who don't want to be one of our eggs, and remember that we made sure to give citizenship to the Wyrmyn by using Conscription, so a lot of Wyrmyn are military, and the Tortuns have fought against our armies, have throw the Wyrmyn under the bus making us fight against a brother group.

TL.DR: Our empire is based on keeping groups of a original culture group together, ie, Pan-Ymaryn. Tortun aren't Ymaryn, actually they made sure to point they are enemy of the Ymaryn, specially by throwing Wyrmyn to Truck-kun. Giant Iron fist has Wyrmyn on it, and in the name of camaraderie and solidarity the Gylruv and Ymaryn would support them over Tortun people.
 
Can we finally make up a legaue of nations or united nation? It would be nice to shove all the responsibility and expection of responsibility to someone else. :p
 
The Behryvar are Tortuns. Chances are that now that their rather competent monarchy is gone nationalist tendencies will infect them as well
Considering Tortuns were the ones who have been killing them lately? I doubt they will go ultra nationalist.

It is a risk though, but it's significantly less so than the alternative of eating them, or letting them stew as mini tortuns.
 
Much of the government, including the royal family, has fled to Hes actually. So we have a base to rebuild the government off fairly easily.


Also, the Behvyarians are quite strong themselves. The Tortun won't be able to abuse them like you fear. Behryvar was explicitly nearly as industrialized as all of the DC was. Not to mention that, while thankful, the Beh aren't going to be interested in us staying around for too long. Just long enough to beat the shit out of the Federation.
Well if their government is already safe and out of the way why do we need to focus on saving their area above ending the war faster?
After all we already have them what did you say
Because the simplest one doesn't give us the post war tool (the Behryvarians)
Ah yes we already have the tool no?
 
Well if their government is already safe and out of the way why do we need to focus on saving their area above ending the war faster?
After all we already have them what did you say

Ah yes we already have the tool no?
Because waiting means that the Federation keeps killing them off. We aren't totally sure what's happening there, but early genocide is very much on the table.

If the atrocity becomes too bad, we can't use the Beh to control the Tortuns, because it will inspire enmity between the two that would make their rule horrific.

Not to mention we might not be able to give Beh the land if we don't liberate them first. France sat at the negotiating table at WWII because they were a free nation at the end, and because they had fought. Had they not been liberated before Germany fell, I doubt they would have been allowed a say.
 
Considering Tortuns were the ones who have been killing them lately? I doubt they will go ultra nationalist.

It is a risk though, but it's significantly less so than the alternative of eating them, or letting them stew as mini tortuns.

I might be misunderstanding things, but i took the Disembowel option as trying to create a super-Tortun state under Behryvvar leadership:

Liberating Behryvar quickly would potentially give an immensely grateful ally who could take care of the Tortun issue for them... but also potentially create a very powerful neighbour with potential to nurse a multigenerational grudge. It would also press the Ochruhr on a second front and allow more of the People's weight to be applied against them.

It is supposed to take care of the Tortun issue for us... By putting all the guys who hate us under the control of the guys who love us, therefore making it pretty random whether they will be an ally or an enemy in the long term.
 
I think we can name this section of the history as "Wars leading to the Great War". Not The Great War cause Sketch isn't in it. Any historians in this thread?

Because waiting means that the Federation keeps killing them off. We aren't totally sure what's happening there, but early genocide is very much on the table.

If the atrocity becomes too bad, we can't use the Beh to control the Tortuns, because it will inspire enmity between the two that would make their rule horrific.

Probably doesn't count as genocide as someone needs to work the factories, also because we didn't say Nohon was tempting to genocide Hung even if the death count was more than few Saffron minor states.
 
Considering Tortuns were the ones who have been killing them lately? I doubt they will go ultra nationalist.

It is a risk though, but it's significantly less so than the alternative of eating them, or letting them stew as mini tortuns.
To be honest Beh was excluded from the Tortun Republic and North Tortun confederacy. Their peoples only interaction with 'Tortun nationalism' has been occupation, slaughter of their armies and then there are the rumours of religious fanatics committing atrocities, probably against the Beh as well if they show any resistance...

Basically the Behryvarians seem to be about as Tortunite as the Swiss are German.
 
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Probably doesn't count as genocide as someone needs to work the factories, also because we didn't say Nohon was tempting to genocide Hung even if the death count was more than few Saffron minor states.
It's pretty much all but been said that the Federation is filled with fanatics, and one of their big things is that you have to work yourself to the bone for the state as a holy duty. And we know that several communities have nearly started killing each other if they think the others aren't working hard enough, and thus aren't pious enough.

Behyrvar, which didn't join willingly, is going to be seen a filled with impure people. Those fanatics are going to be doing horrible things to them, it's just a matter of how much the Beh resist the occupation, and how harsh the religious fanatics are going to be that determines how bad the body count is going to be.
 
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To be honest Beh was excluded from the Tortun Republic and North Tortun confederacy. Their peoples only interaction with 'Tortun nationalism' has been occupation, slaughter of their armies and then there are the rumours of religious fanatics committing atrocities, probably against the Beh as well if they show any resistance...

Basically the Behryvarians seem to be about as Tortunite as the Swiss are German.
A better way to describe it is that the Beh are about as Tortun as the Wymryrn are Ymaryn.

Which is to say that it's enough that they can manage it, though our support will very much help.
 
A better way to describe it is that the Beh are about as Tortun as the Wymryrn are Ymaryn.

Which is to say that it's enough that they can manage it, though our support will very much help.
Eh, I think that still doesn't quite fit. We didn't genocide the Wymryrn after we conquered them and slaughtered their armies, Nor were we religious fanatics from a different sect of their religion, nor were we overthrowing a popular monarch and exploiting their resources immediately for war and demanding they work to death.

We'd also occupied them for centuries before the Republic was formed, and Peotyr had rallied popular support against the Republic initially. And they don't have someone else to blame for the whole mess, the Wymryrn has Tortun to point to instead of us, Beh hasn't got another target aside from Tortun.

I don't think it's an apt comparison. Perhaps Swiss to German isn't either, instead yet me use Austrian to German. Somewhat compatible, but their national identities are majorly different with some bad blood as well.
 
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Yeah. Idk i got mixed feelings about this whole give Tortun to the Beh. If it blows up. It blows up bad. Moreso than usual.
 
Eh, I think that still doesn't quite fit. We didn't genocide the Wymryrn after we conquered them and slaughtered their armies, Not were we religious fanatics from a different sect of their religion, nor were we overthrowing a popular monarch and exploiting their resources immediately for war and demanding they work to death.

We'd also occupied them for centuries before the Republic was formed, and Peotyr had rallied popular support against the Republic initially.

I don't think it's an apt comparison. Perhaps Swiss to German isn't either, instead yet me use Austrian to German. Somewhat compatible, but their national identities are majorly different with some bad blood as well.
Keep in mind that it's still only been, what, 35-40 years since the collapse of the Not!HRE. The Austrians haven't really diverged from the Germans enough yet, and they have a strong case to present as being the legitimate leaders of Tortun.

Again, it's been mentioned as an explicit risk that the Beh rule could go sideways, but we literally have no better option, unless you want to devote significant PW to managing it ourselves, or have to send out another army in 10-20 years to put down yet another revolution.
Yeah. Idk i got mixed feelings about this whole give Tortun to the Beh. If it blows up. It blows up bad. Moreso than usual.
Yes, but if it works, it works amazingly well. It gives us our continental ally that Corn wants so badly, it secures the last unstable land border we hold in the west, and gives us a strong trade partner.

We'll have to set up an espionage network there, but that's something we can afford to do, and something we need to do anyways. As long as we pay attention, this shouldn't blow up too badly in our face, unless literally the worst case scenario pops up.
 
Why arent we just giving them back the northern confederacy?

That lasted till it got fucked by economic collapse to my knowledge.
 
I mean if I'm a foreign government I would rate the not interested in land rating with amount of wars fought where a country can but did not take land versus war where they took land. So DC would be casually taking nibbles in that scale.

true. Mostly I'm just hoping to avoid the issue russa had, where their being perceived as a threat got them into a spiral that ended with them and the rest of Europe mutually hating each other. I think we're doing pretty well at avoiding that.
 
Why arent we just giving them back the northern confederacy?

That lasted till it got fucked by economic collapse to ky knowledge.
Many of the nobles likely died in the revolts, and the Confederacy was working on snapping back together, which we were fine with so long as they were willing to forgive and forget.

Then this shit happened, which they are likely to hold a grudge for. So now we lack the nobility who would be likely to support us against their more liberal population, while most of the Tortun population is going to be ready to hit us if they think they can get away with it.
 
Why arent we just giving them back the northern confederacy?

That lasted till it got fucked by economic collapse to my knowledge.
The Northern Confederacy is dead, the Federation killed all the nobles. There is no legitimate ruler of proper stature left to take the throne there. The King of Behryvar though, is a proper royal with enough prestige to claim the title.
 
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