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Paths of Civilization II: Paths of Industrialization

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Spacegnom said:
Now that I think about it, I'm actually a bit miffed that the less humilating [Peace] option costs less PW than the one our people demand. An argument could even be made that we should actually gain PW for revenging the 'Humiliating Loss'.
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The issue is that the Ochruhr are going to be stubborn, so to guarantee it you need to marshal up diplomats and the like who could be used elsewhere for things. Just peacing out might fulfil the revanchist aims anyway, but not paying attention to the process and just taking your clay has the possibility of things not going your way.
 
Dutch said:
What I'm getting from this is that we pretty much got best outcome regarding a Tortun unification. A functioning liberal (for the time) republic untainted by the militarism that player a major role in the otl!German Empire.

And we're going to destroy it...
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I mean, we are an empire that will take over the world, America was only able to hold off on everyone and their mother gunning for it because of massive Dept, and revolutions that were sweeping Europe. If America was in the place that the Republic is in now, there wouldn't be an America.
 
IMO it seems like history is repeating itself here. What with the antagonizing Germany and monarchists putting down the fledgeling republic.

Fools we are, a fool's fate we deserve.
 
agumentic said:
Well, if they didn't want to fight us, they should've eased up on a "We are gonna beat you and take your land" rhetoric.
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Pretty much this. They were similar to revolutionary France in that rather than just staying in their own borders and such they threatened everyone around them. This alarmed the already uneasy monarchists around them further, resulting in war. It's their own fault really.
 
soulcake said:
IMO it seems like history is repeating itself here. What with the antagonizing Germany and monarchists putting down the fledgeling republic.

Fools we are, a fool's fate we deserve.
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Not much we can do with the PW costs being the way they are. Breaking the guilds has to come first. I would have been okay with going the other way and focusing on occupying all of Tortun but there was no way that vote would win.
 
Timewinders said:
Pretty much this. They were similar to revolutionary France in that rather than just staying in their own borders and such they threatened everyone around them. This alarmed the already uneasy monarchists around them further, resulting in war. It's their own fault really.
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This. The fact they couldn't even make an alliance with the Hespranxers when they were both republics is a clear sign that the Tortun were incapable of playing the diplo game instead of picking fights. We wouldn't even be in this fight if they'd been willing to negotiate the first time around instead of using their military superiority to solve all their problems and thinking they'd get away with it.

The morale to this tale is that no mater how tough you are, pissing off literally everyone around you is bad.
 
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I wonder how the Tortun will feel when they notice that we basically destroyed them purely to get back our territory, without actually caring enough about them to even bring the issue of their future at the peace deal talk.

« ....just why did we antagonize them in the first place? »
 
Im jumping ship if theres a potato famine in not!Ireland and we do nothing.

By that point we'd have shed any remnant of paragon we maybe had.
 
Fortunately, the Germans will be all healed up and raring to snap another federal top on their interact lower governments just in time for the French to have their semiannual revolution and preach pan-rebulicanism and/or outright Marxism.

This is going to be fun.
 
OliWhail said:
Putin would approve of this version of Russia, is what you're saying
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How would that work, exactly?

I imagine Putin trying to express appreciation for Not!Russia and then finding out that they don't even speak the same language, much less the same ethnicity.

soulcake said:
Im jumping ship if theres a potato famine in not!Ireland and we do nothing.

By that point we'd have shed any remnant of paragon we maybe had.
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Really? Do we even have capacity to support international relief?
 
soulcake said:
Im jumping ship if theres a potato famine in not!Ireland and we do nothing.

By that point we'd have shed any remnant of paragon we maybe had.
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What makes you think we still have that? After the collapse the cities at the core of our state formed roving armies to plunder the rest of the old empire for everything they could get their hands on in order to prevent famine from hitting them. At that point we were not that far removed from a nomad horde.

We've been dealing arms and inciting wars and violence between our rivals for ages now. Ymaryn as a bright, shining paragon might have been a noble ideal, but it couldn't hold up to the brute pressures of reality. We're down in the muck with everyone else now.
 
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Raichu1972 said:
!NotIreland doesn't even exist as a country, dude.

Everything on their weird island chain belongs to the Sketch.
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Replace ireland with any other power and potato with any other food. Heck any international/european crsis.

That whole refugee and hospitality thing we cultivated is dead and buried in my eyes if we ignore that.

I came into this quest for a few things. Playing the closest approximation to paragon that was possible for a country and praising Crow.

And they've taken the bird. Maybe its nostalgia, probably is, but this is getting kinda sad.
 
065tdsa said:
This. The fact they couldn't even make an alliance with the Hespranxers when they were both republics is a clear sign that the Tortun were incapable of playing the diplo game instead of picking fights.
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The Hespranxers were the ones trying to conquer Tortun lands. That's what sparked Faron's revolution there in the first place. Why would they ally with the guys trying to conquer them?
065tdsa said:
We wouldn't even be in this fight if they'd been willing to negotiate the first time around instead of using their military superiority to solve all their problems and thinking they'd get away with it.
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Oh please, we started the war because of this:
Academia Nut said:
Happiness Lower than Militancy, Stability Roll Failed
If you do not declare war on the Tortun Republic (current cost, 2 PW) there will be rioting and probable civil war over the king's inaction, no doubt prompting invasion
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At no point before or after did we ever even bother trying diplomacy with the Tortun to see if we could have solved this without war.
 
065tdsa said:
This. The fact they couldn't even make an alliance with the Hespranxers when they were both republics is a clear sign that the Tortun were incapable of playing the diplo game instead of picking fights. We wouldn't even be in this fight if they'd been willing to negotiate the first time around instead of using their military superiority to solve all their problems and thinking they'd get away with it.

The morale to this tale is that no mater how tough you are, pissing off literally everyone around you is bad.
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Also, it was mostly that the Hespranxer Republic didn't want to back down over occupied territory and the Tortun were like "Dude, those are our people!" and the Hespranxer were all "Nah, we won the fight, it's our land", and were also generally in poor function anyway. They couldn't swing an alliance but they went (mostly) non-aggression on each other anyway. Faron admits that the later rhetoric was a mistake and went too far (it was something of a translation/dialect issue that made his word choice sound far more threatening when written out than he intended) and pretty much immediately began backing off on it, while the Wyrmyn Republic was also probably something of a miscalculation but since it started in former Empire land and he wasn't sure what the hell to do with an ethnically Wyrmyn population that might see him as another conqueror he figured a puppet republic was the best solution for the time. While he threatened you with the Wyrmyn Republic, he was mostly aiming at the Kielmyr and their southern Kalesee holdings and the ports there.
 
Academia Nut said:
Also, it was mostly that the Hespranxer Republic didn't want to back down over occupied territory and the Tortun were like "Dude, those are our people!" and the Hespranxer were all "Nah, we won the fight, it's our land", and were also generally in poor function anyway. They couldn't swing an alliance but they went (mostly) non-aggression on each other anyway. Faron admits that the later rhetoric was a mistake and went too far (it was something of a translation/dialect issue that made his word choice sound far more threatening when written out than he intended) and pretty much immediately began backing off on it, while the Wyrmyn Republic was also probably something of a miscalculation but since it started in former Empire land and he wasn't sure what the hell to do with an ethnically Wyrmyn population that might see him as another conqueror he figured a puppet republic was the best solution for the time. While he threatened you with the Wyrmyn Republic, he was mostly aiming at the Kielmyr and their southern Kalesee holdings and the ports there.
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So a Diplomatic Outreach to Faron could've defused the entire situation? For us atleast?
 
soulcake said:
Replace ireland with any other power and potato with any other food. Heck any international/european crsis.

That whole refugee and hospitality thing we cultivated is dead and buried in my eyes if we ignore that.

I came into this quest for a few things. Playing the closest approximation to paragon that was possible for a country and praising Crow.

And they've taken the bird. Maybe its nostalgia, probably is, but this is getting kinda sad.
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I'm not sure why you came into Paths of Industrialization expecting either of those things.

The Ymar created for this quest during the lighting rounds is known as the Pleasant Faced Spider, who kept itself alive by sowing chaos within its neighbors and started a religious war that killed hundreds of thousands of Europeans.
Like, by PoI the whole "Paragon of goodness who helps the misguided" is gone besides propaganda used to justify meddling with others.

Pretty sure we still have Crow though, since he is now the Monotheist God. So not all is lost :V
 
it seems that going to war when neither side really wants it is more of a thing now. Either though miscommunications or popular support for war.
 
Dutch said:
What I'm getting from this is that we pretty much got best outcome regarding a Tortun unification. A functioning liberal (for the time) republic untainted by the militarism that player a major role in the otl!German Empire.
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Doesn't seem untainted by militarism to me.

soulcake said:
Replace ireland with any other power and potato with any other food. Heck any international/european crsis.

That whole refugee and hospitality thing we cultivated is dead and buried in my eyes if we ignore that.
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I'm all for taking in any refugees if the option presents itself. Why should America get all of that sweet immigration? I want some of the huddled masses too.

HanEmpire said:
The Ymaryn have never cared about woes of people outside its borders. We passively accepted refugees but outside of that? Nada.
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Well, there was that time with the cure for cholera.
 
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