why not drop social and triple down? I would like to reconnect ASAP since I think it will generate actions to restore local elements which could be a cool way to drive our time here.
Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
- Start date
- Fantasy
why not drop social and triple down? I would like to reconnect ASAP since I think it will generate actions to restore local elements which could be a cool way to drive our time here.
- Location
- United Kingdom
not everyone is on there, eg historical figures like guldan or figures you've not really interacted with like saurfang. The ones currently are people you might be speaking to immediately
all fine, you depending on how you want to spread yourself you could speak to one person more or several on a similar topic like broadly getting command advice during some sort of officers' conference
you can do write ins on any of them if you want to, might change the wording slightly on the write in option to make this clearer next chapter
This is a good point, but it's also something to consider for future arcs. You don't have much command experience so potentially you couldn't use this arc to get that experience and then next arc you could call on more resources because you're a proven commander it's not just your dad giving you stuff
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
I am still of the opinion that if we focus on our elemental connections, we could potentially be a support dps and support our warrant that way.
We could also potentially lean on such connections to help the black dragonflight break away from Deathwing and bring them into the horde as allies in exchange for working to beat back the whispers of the old gods.
I am biased in this suggestion. But still.
We could also potentially lean on such connections to help the black dragonflight break away from Deathwing and bring them into the horde as allies in exchange for working to beat back the whispers of the old gods.
I am biased in this suggestion. But still.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Ah thought that split happened later. Yeah that's even worse.
As I suspected. My reason for wandering about them was more wandering about the relative likelihood of direct interactions.
Still if Tirion is someone we're likely to meet that'd be good.
And? I never denied that was an option, but it doesn't deal with the fundamental problem (assuming you accidentally put couldn't instead of could). Yes we can do that, and by doing so we'll do what we did last time, spread ourselves too thin and accomplish nothing.
On a personal level commanding unlike getting good enough as a warrior can come with time, but if he doesn't have the strength to at least defend himself against Jub he's going to die long before being able to command people will make one shred of a difference.
I hate that I keep on bringing this point up, but this is why I did not want the war band, we're essentially being forced between
1. Do not make effective use of this asset, get less done because we're spreading ourselves out, make ourselves more likely to get stuff done, but get more of them killed and later gain things we were always going to get given time.
and
2. Do and make ourselves more likely to die to accomplish far less because we're spreading ourselves out more, but gain an asset of undeniable utility, but highly dubious long term value in this kind of fighting.
Anyway weren't you the one telling us that Grok got this not just because of the ol nepotism, but because he had proven himself as a commander despite my personal views on the matter.
I'm considering it, but I'm not getting anyone voting for any of the plans currently, so I'm wanting to get people's views.
I personally would like to do something like that, but compromise and all.
Yeah...amongst other things I'm not sure how useful shamanism is for beating back the old gods.
- Location
- Texas
[X] Plan do lead, restore the connection
I think I do like this better.
I think I do like this better.
- Location
- Italy
I don't really like any of the plans here, so here's one of my own,
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill
Organisation obviously has to be done immediately, I want to keep our AP open to do other stuff and Scorn seems like the best option to me right now, I'd really rather not waste time and recover physically as soon as possible, and we need to know where we're camping,Brill is probably the best place for informations as we don't want to go into the Undercity blind, finally Meditation because it seems most people want to reconnect with the elements soon although personally I'd have no problem leaving that for later and substituting for some other form of training or conversation.
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill
Organisation obviously has to be done immediately, I want to keep our AP open to do other stuff and Scorn seems like the best option to me right now, I'd really rather not waste time and recover physically as soon as possible, and we need to know where we're camping,Brill is probably the best place for informations as we don't want to go into the Undercity blind, finally Meditation because it seems most people want to reconnect with the elements soon although personally I'd have no problem leaving that for later and substituting for some other form of training or conversation.
[X] Plan do lead, restore the connection
You just got two!
I also want to push back on how much of an action sink the warband is. Once it is organized we get an AP back, and I imagine once we grow our command skills and pass it back to a lieutenant it will be a net AP creator.
You just got two!
I also want to push back on how much of an action sink the warband is. Once it is organized we get an AP back, and I imagine once we grow our command skills and pass it back to a lieutenant it will be a net AP creator.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For the people who intend to lead: why not modify your plans to include Tactics instead of Shamanism? It would have synergy. It's time to be the Commander of XCOM XCORK.
cue Scorn saying: "Commander, the Scourge is advancing in their Undead World project. If we intend to slow them down, we'll need to move fast".
- i.e., the commander of an effective military unit. Scorn organizes the band into a group of Orc Boyz well enough, but with Tactics + Lead we can make it better.
If we do not intend to lead, then Shamanism is a good choice. Moreover, we should always go for Recovery. Therefore,
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
I choose you!
cue Scorn saying: "Commander, the Scourge is advancing in their Undead World project. If we intend to slow them down, we'll need to move fast".
- i.e., the commander of an effective military unit. Scorn organizes the band into a group of Orc Boyz well enough, but with Tactics + Lead we can make it better.
If we do not intend to lead, then Shamanism is a good choice. Moreover, we should always go for Recovery. Therefore,
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
I choose you!
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Considerations on turns and actions for the Lordaeron arc
- Location
- United Kingdom
Perception vs reality. Grok does have some command experience and successes, but that's always been supported by the clan because you're the heir, which might cause others to consider that you'd gotten there by nepotism. You've also never fought a war or sustained conflict at the moment and generally you're missing a lot of particular experience in terms of command. Eg, against a variety of enemies, away from supply, defending a particular point, transiting through hostile territory, assaulting fortifications, all that.
So I'd say to look at it from the other angle. There are a lot of different things you could do in this arc, for example
- Ascertain general situation of different parties such as Forsaken and Scarlet Crusade
- Try and get the Kul Tirans to back off back home
- Generally try and improve diplomacy between Horde and Alliance through discussion with people like Prestor and Fordragon
- Assist with the actual crusading, clear bastions of Scourge activity etc
- Ascertain specific situations of particular parties, eg Dalaran, Dragonmaw, Quel'thalas, Amani
- Get involved in the above polities' situations
- Get involved in any spooky or sneaky stuff that might come up with various parties if you notice weird stuff about them
- Regain spiritual connection
- Investigate Light
- Investigate Arcane
- Investigate Necromancy
- Train other skills that might be about like ranged combat
- Find out what happened in Alterac and with Jubei'thos
As you're aware the problem is previously you (the collective you) has generally been trying to do everything in the space of an arc. For example wanting to do shaman stuff when you've never been a shaman, or the previously mentioned 'smashing your head against walls' of history and tradition. In the last arc you were trying to tackle BB/Horde stuff, do blademaster things, get better at heiring, do more shamanism, kill centaur and then you got occupied by the Dreadmist stuff. You were moderately successful at all of those things. Yes you killed some centaur, yes you were starting to do more shaman stuff and getting better with your sword, you at least understood what was going on with the Blademasters even if you didn't 'fix' the problem, you got closer with Feldad, and then Dreadmist happened and 'Hunted' came back into play. Still though, you did accomplish stuff last arc so well done and so on.
I would generally say to think about doing specific things and having specific objectives. The 'actual' objectives you've got were helping the crusade and checking out Alterac. You don't have to go see the Amani, Vok'fon can just do that on his own, you don't have to investigate necromancy, Keldran will be doing that in the background. It's about what you want to do and understanding what you can achieve. Now do you want to approach this as 'what do we do each turn', or as 'what do we want to do in additional to the plot stuff during this arc', that's up to you, but again consider it as what you can do, not all the things you can't do.
On an economics point, if we say 6 actions each of 12 turns, you've got 72 actions. Now that might go up or down depending on various factors, but that's the sort of thing you could look at. Lets say you take half of those options above, so maybe 6 general objectives for the arc. That's about 12 actions for each of those things. You will not learn to be a mage in 12 actions. You won't 'fix' the situation with Kul Tiras in 12 actions. You could however train to be more stealthy or use a ranged weapon in 12 actions, that would be fine, and you could also find out what happened to Alterac in such time.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
We do not get an ap back we get an AP fully invested.
Fractious has not fully decided on it, but we loose 1 personal AP at least.
Furthermore once we make the choice I imagine we cannot pass it back to a lieutenant, that I imagine is not how it works. We take up command full time we take up command full time.
And my issue is that falls into the weeds of trying to do everything and ultimately doing nothing. Recovery is apparently something that will happen automatically for example.
How the hell does Grok still have so much of a goddamn ego?!
Sigh.
Fractious I am well aware of that, I'm trying to secure enough AP to actually make it possible to accomplish some objectives in this time frame when we can never roll above a 30 for anything actually bloody important, you're not telling me anything I wasn't already frustratedly aware of!
Simple I don't want to do tactics I want to do Shamanism, I offered that plan as a compromise plan, and unfortunately people seemed to assume I want that one to win!
- Location
- United Kingdom
At least for this arc yes. I don't really want you flip flopping about each turn, if the conditions and situation changed though yes obviously that may require changes to command structure
More for others because I decided to threadmark it, you weren't wrong on it etc.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Which if we take command personally are going to be
1. The warband is dead.
2. The warband is sent off for some other reason
3. Grok is incapacitated.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Or, more positively, if you have other significant duties for some reason, if you suddenly acquire a lot more troops and need to delegate more tasks rather than still managing everything yourself, or perhaps for others reasons.
Once they are organized we get a net even result. I'm fine leading them this arc then off loading later. I agree lack of focus is an issue, but I am ready to get firmly on the elements train with the balance of our actions if you are!
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
We potentially get a net even in terms of actions to pick, Fractious has not decided on it yet.
Furthermore its not net even in terms of where the AP can go.
5 AP we can spend on Grok is still 5 AP we can spend on Grok, not 6.
The only way it draws even is if it allows us to essentially offload actions Grok would have to take with personal AP, but given how the quest has organised in the past, I somehow imagine that won't be how it will be at all, instead we'll just see double investment of our warband AP and then adding Grok AP ontop of that to represent that we're ****ing in charge of the damn thing.
Either way Grok ****ing looses AP.
Edit: to give an example, because we're in charge it won't be us ordering "go do X" it'll be "lets go do X" with us spending an AP from the warband pool and then Grok having to spend one personally to represent that he's investing his personal time into it, because of course he is, he's leading the warband!
While yes Fractious has not figured out the system yet, can you think of a way for it to make sense otherwise?
Loosing 1 AP is to represent Grok's time being taken up with managing the ****ers, it does not magically create more time for them to do actions that he has to be personally in charge of.
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I grasp that what you is the current trade off with leadership, my point is that over the long term it allows us to credibly delegate since we:
A. Gain the skills to do so
B. Gain loyal underlings to delegate too
I like this quest because it requires us to grow as a character, not min max. Our early arc was being a dysfunctional child. This is us gaining our stride as an adult. Taking on responsibility is part of that.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Thoughts on the leader choice,
I'm currently considering how the action economy would shift if Grok is chosen. Now you have 6 actions each turn to spend on whatever you like, but given we're organising the warband I may section them off if you chose the leadership option.
As one scenario, if you chose to be a leader you'd get -1 general actions because you're busy leading stuff, but you could have +2 warband actions. This would be anything that feasibly relates to the warband, such as military actions to go attack X, or training them, or doing something else.
Yes you lose 1 general AP but in turn you gain 2 of the specialised ones, and given one of the objectives of this arc is to do war stuff that seems a reasonable trade, as well as benefiting you in doing more command stuff.
There are a few fairly nebulous things to consider. If at the end you report on your actions to someone (presumably Feldad but whatever), you might say 'oh yea I led them and gained command experinece', or you might say 'I handed them off to someone else while I did other stuff'. These will have effects on peoples' perceptions of you. Comparably you might also consider what sort of impression you're going to leave on your warband and on your officers, because while it's pretty unlikely anyone's going to hate you after the arc, aloof commanders aren't great for morale. On a third point, there are certain expectations of captains and chiefs among the Horde. This isn't a matter of me saying 'hohoho you didn't do X you never get to be warchief bad luck', it's simply a reminder that the orcs like certain leaders.
I'm pretty flexible on this. Leading the warband personally does represent an investment of time, but there are various narrative purposes as well and as I've stated before I'm far more interested in narrative than I am in mechanics.
I'm currently considering how the action economy would shift if Grok is chosen. Now you have 6 actions each turn to spend on whatever you like, but given we're organising the warband I may section them off if you chose the leadership option.
As one scenario, if you chose to be a leader you'd get -1 general actions because you're busy leading stuff, but you could have +2 warband actions. This would be anything that feasibly relates to the warband, such as military actions to go attack X, or training them, or doing something else.
Yes you lose 1 general AP but in turn you gain 2 of the specialised ones, and given one of the objectives of this arc is to do war stuff that seems a reasonable trade, as well as benefiting you in doing more command stuff.
There are a few fairly nebulous things to consider. If at the end you report on your actions to someone (presumably Feldad but whatever), you might say 'oh yea I led them and gained command experinece', or you might say 'I handed them off to someone else while I did other stuff'. These will have effects on peoples' perceptions of you. Comparably you might also consider what sort of impression you're going to leave on your warband and on your officers, because while it's pretty unlikely anyone's going to hate you after the arc, aloof commanders aren't great for morale. On a third point, there are certain expectations of captains and chiefs among the Horde. This isn't a matter of me saying 'hohoho you didn't do X you never get to be warchief bad luck', it's simply a reminder that the orcs like certain leaders.
I'm pretty flexible on this. Leading the warband personally does represent an investment of time, but there are various narrative purposes as well and as I've stated before I'm far more interested in narrative than I am in mechanics.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
As am I, but the narrative I want isn't that of the commander yet.
Furthermore while you claim it'd be a net positive of actions, I doubt that because as I already gave the example I fully expect you to make it a double investment of time, 1 AP to do the warband organisation and another AP to represent Grok himself going to do things.
- Location
- United Kingdom
The vote counter isn't happy today it seems.
I really should have had the organisation action as a mandatory one and had the specifics of it as a separate vote to prevent this sort of thing.
Currently as far as I can read the above the vote is for
Organisation: Captain (That is, Grok leading)
Cold Hearth Manor
Meditation
But there are various ties after that on whether to do meditation twice, lead troops somewhere, that sort of thing.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I think in the future its safest for plans go for [A]
With none of the options []'d cause I think that confuses it as well.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Nepotism ain't my thing and the tactics he emphasises ain't the ones we need vs the undead. He is second place, but charges are good against enemies with morale to break, which the undead do not have. + They're most effective with equipment we do not have (mounts.)
+ He wants to be in the thick of combat even when commanding, might as well let him focus on that instead of command.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Alright then.
I think there is a matter of one's own morale to consider; orks very much like their commanders leading from the front. But since my choices were between Scorn and Vark...
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill
Scorn in charge, Meditation and Cold Hearth Manor are common between the plans. Don't want to go all in on the Meditation before we know how much it helps us reestablish the spiritual connection, and Recovery & Meditation taken together fits the theme of healing the scars of the Dreadmist campaign.
I am interested in both social actions and proactive information gathering, but I figure we may get more out of the latter immediately after our arrival.
I think there is a matter of one's own morale to consider; orks very much like their commanders leading from the front. But since my choices were between Scorn and Vark...
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill
[ ] Plan do not lead, restore the connection
-[ ] Organisation
--[ ] Previous arrangements
-[ ] Cold Hearth Manor
-[ ] Meditation X2
-[ ] Speak to Varak about why he decided to come along with us?
-[ ] Organisation
--[ ] Previous arrangements
-[ ] Cold Hearth Manor
-[ ] Meditation X2
-[ ] Speak to Varak about why he decided to come along with us?
Scorn in charge, Meditation and Cold Hearth Manor are common between the plans. Don't want to go all in on the Meditation before we know how much it helps us reestablish the spiritual connection, and Recovery & Meditation taken together fits the theme of healing the scars of the Dreadmist campaign.
I am interested in both social actions and proactive information gathering, but I figure we may get more out of the latter immediately after our arrival.
- Location
- United Kingdom
So we've got 3 votes for 3 plans, although one person has voted twice.
All of the plans have Organisation, some element of patrolling, checking out the manor, and meditation. That's 4 actions basically, though there's disagreement on various points. I'm happy to leave the vote open longer, so I'll set it to close for tomorrow morning. If there's still a tie I'll arbitrate something up. The three plans are below:
Stretch Our Legs
[X] Organisation
While you have confidence in their fighting abilities, you could do with organising your warband better. See spoiler for choices.
-[X] Lead
Accompany your warriors on patrol, or in other activities, rather than delegating this duty. Write in what you're doing unless it's just a patrol.
--[X] Captain
[X] Cold Hearth Manor
Explore the estate and grounds.
[X] Look for Trouble
Explore the wider area around the Manor with a decent chunk of the warband and look for threats to destroy. Not looking to make enemies, but kill feral undead, monsters, bandits, etc.
[X] Meditation
[X] Plan do lead, restore the connection
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Captain
-[X] Lead
--[X] Search for human settlements to make friendly contact.
-[X] Meditation X2
-[X] Speak to Vok'fon about his experiences as a leader
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill
All of the plans have Organisation, some element of patrolling, checking out the manor, and meditation. That's 4 actions basically, though there's disagreement on various points. I'm happy to leave the vote open longer, so I'll set it to close for tomorrow morning. If there's still a tie I'll arbitrate something up. The three plans are below:
Stretch Our Legs
[X] Organisation
While you have confidence in their fighting abilities, you could do with organising your warband better. See spoiler for choices.
-[X] Lead
Accompany your warriors on patrol, or in other activities, rather than delegating this duty. Write in what you're doing unless it's just a patrol.
--[X] Captain
[X] Cold Hearth Manor
Explore the estate and grounds.
[X] Look for Trouble
Explore the wider area around the Manor with a decent chunk of the warband and look for threats to destroy. Not looking to make enemies, but kill feral undead, monsters, bandits, etc.
[X] Meditation
[X] Plan do lead, restore the connection
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Captain
-[X] Lead
--[X] Search for human settlements to make friendly contact.
-[X] Meditation X2
-[X] Speak to Vok'fon about his experiences as a leader
[X] Plan Recovery and Exploration
-[X] Organisation
--[X] Previous arrangements
-[X] Recovery
-[X] Meditation
-[X] Cold Hearth Manor
-[X] Brill