Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)
- Thread starter FractiousDay
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i like the warband and what it to grow
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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I'm fine stashing it away somewhere or reducing it in size.
Fundamentally it feels like it clashes with what the purpose of being exiled was and throws the narrative oomph of exile right out the window, yes I know its something that's based on concensus, but being given 100 people after we've been ejected from Orcish society is too much. Its the kinda thing that's done as a promotion.*
*It also links to how over all I don't really see the war band as anything more than an action sink, the last one certainly was of similar use. The best thing we got out of it was Scorn and he was most interesting after the rest of it ended up dead.
Yes, Feldad wants to send people along with us, but sending a pair of veteran fully trained blademasters should more than cover that, in fact more than do so. It also feels like that should be the max he can do, what with being watched by Thrall and the clan having taken very heavy casulties recently...like seemingly 1/3rd of its official numbers and who knows how many others dead to Forneas. Even with more joining due to the burning blade's current prestige, sending those off with Grok seems counter intuitive to actually integrating them into the clan.
Furthermore its weird to send Grok off with 70 members of the clan best known amongst his own people and the Alliance for being fel using murder machines, with the other 30 being at the very least shady or likely criminals. When combined with your own statements that unless we put actions into them, presumably a lot of them they will be
combined with the Necromancer warlock who would have had to have been old enough to at least be alive by the second war and the hot-blooded Warsong* and I hope you can see my problem when ultimately they all answer to Grok and many humans do not really need to know that for one acting out to stain Grok's reputation with the entire scarlet crusade and beyond!
*Just the immediate problems I'm the sure the berserker ex-bandit troll archeologist will also be an issue...although who knows maybe we can introduce him non violently to Brann this time.
Furthermore just saying Scorn handle this is dissatisfying on numerous levels.
1. Relating back to the issue of "why were only Thrall and Fel dad at Orgrimmar" just because the narrative focus is on them does not make them poof into non existence.
2. Its not fair to Scorn. Dude's got the right to be more than just a baby sitter.
I don't think having some people is a bad thing, just...not that many!
Like maybe 5 of Sorek's fight club, a few people Scorn picked up schmoozing in a bar. Not a small amount to be sure when put together, but a number that is more manageable and doesn't distract as much from trying to expand Grok's horizons.
Like I'm not sure how else to say this, but we've talked at length about how fucked up the horde still is and dropping 100 members of the race who consider 14 ways to skin a dwarf (honestly even a fraction of that is still pushing it), an acceptable tavern song on ex members of the alliance is narratively begging for disaster unless both the orcs and the humans have a degree of self control and common sense bordering on the obscene...and that's before you add in who most of them are.
Edit: 14 ways to skin a dwarf actually was one off.
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I'm fine with the warband, I'm just surprised he had so much orcpower to spare.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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I also think I've realised another reason (well actually it turned into a few more) why I'm finding these options so weird, as it fundamentally feels like we've done them/are doing them.
I get what the reasoning was, but it does clash that we go from being able to do essentially five of the six actions while Grok was weaker, but only have the ability to focus on one?
Like familiarising self with command, surely we're not in such a bad state that over the course of weeks we couldn't at the very least establish a pecking order, (training no organisation yes.)
Same with swordplay, is Grok just going to stop physiotherapy because he's doing other things and he is practicing.*
*Side note, Swordplay is the worst option in general, all the others feature Grok learning or gaining something with the meditation one presumably starting him on the long road to regaining his connection to the elements, something which is going to take a ****ing long time, but keeps meditation from falling into worst action. The only reason I'm considering swordplay at all is the implication that if we don't take it Grok starts losing skill.
As Fractious put it himself
As for compansion, well at least some of them are meant to be our friends and we've been interacting with since before we got on the boat. It does not make sense in my head that during that entire time we did not find a moment to settle down with Varak or Scorn and go "so hey buddy what you been doing" when we've been in the air for three weeks. Our less friendly social links is another thing.
I've already mentioned the issue of learning about the regions, the orcs should not have enough useful info about the region for it to be the sort of thing that requires what looks like 3 weeks of time dedicated too it!
Finally the time skip jars from how it is still a very long length of time. Six weeks in total, considering Grok considers getting his sling off in the third and reaching the Maestorm to be the second half of the trip.
That's longer than a turn in Orgrimmar (around 4 weeks IIRC might have been six and we had six AP so I'll assume six). Even then assuming 1 AP=1 week, 3 weeks still translates to 3 AP.
Time is important on another matter too
Presumably, we're arriving near the undercity, I'll just assume at the zeppline station in canon, which you can see on the map just to the south-south-east of Brill I believe, from there its literally a road to the Scarlet Monastery.
That's why I find this
Isn't really an option, the canonic reason the Scarlet Crusade is threatening the Forsaken is that they are extremely uncomfortably close to their capital and why the Crusade is able to mount operations across the Tristfall Glades.
There's an entire quest chain called "at war with the scarlet crusade" in Brill At War With The Scarlet Crusade
For more proof here's the spread of the scarlet crusade in classic wow as viable targets for a different quest, but also located in Brill
Look at that coverage apparently all being run out of the monastery.
Applying that to this should really imply that from touch down reaching the Scarlet Crusade really won't take long, especially if action efficiency has been nerfed into the ground as hard as it seems.
Also
How the hell does it take longer to learn a language when you are immersing yourself amongst native speakers and having to learn it?! You're essentially presenting the dichotomy of Grok being able to learn the language in three weeks to a speaking level from non native speakers, but it'll take two months for him to even learn the basics while in the situation where its supposed to be easiest to do so...
I'm sorry that just doesn't make any sense in the fucking least...
Finally from a narrative standpoint, tis still just unexpected. What I assumed was going on was that this was a Grok finding himself while doing some good in the world, making contacts beyond the horde and in general learning to be more than "Grok the disappointing clan heir/Grok the bad blade master/Grok the overconfident." Grok the exile was essentially meant to be as close to a clean slate as its possible for an orc to get and I was hoping to embrace that. Seemingly not.
I get what the reasoning was, but it does clash that we go from being able to do essentially five of the six actions while Grok was weaker, but only have the ability to focus on one?
Like familiarising self with command, surely we're not in such a bad state that over the course of weeks we couldn't at the very least establish a pecking order, (training no organisation yes.)
Same with swordplay, is Grok just going to stop physiotherapy because he's doing other things and he is practicing.*
*Side note, Swordplay is the worst option in general, all the others feature Grok learning or gaining something with the meditation one presumably starting him on the long road to regaining his connection to the elements, something which is going to take a ****ing long time, but keeps meditation from falling into worst action. The only reason I'm considering swordplay at all is the implication that if we don't take it Grok starts losing skill.
As Fractious put it himself
The implication seemingly being that we will start losing skill, even if our body does get back to normal in time, which is especially bad when that is our main method of survival right now!
As for compansion, well at least some of them are meant to be our friends and we've been interacting with since before we got on the boat. It does not make sense in my head that during that entire time we did not find a moment to settle down with Varak or Scorn and go "so hey buddy what you been doing" when we've been in the air for three weeks. Our less friendly social links is another thing.
I've already mentioned the issue of learning about the regions, the orcs should not have enough useful info about the region for it to be the sort of thing that requires what looks like 3 weeks of time dedicated too it!
Finally the time skip jars from how it is still a very long length of time. Six weeks in total, considering Grok considers getting his sling off in the third and reaching the Maestorm to be the second half of the trip.
That's longer than a turn in Orgrimmar (around 4 weeks IIRC might have been six and we had six AP so I'll assume six). Even then assuming 1 AP=1 week, 3 weeks still translates to 3 AP.
Time is important on another matter too
Presumably, we're arriving near the undercity, I'll just assume at the zeppline station in canon, which you can see on the map just to the south-south-east of Brill I believe, from there its literally a road to the Scarlet Monastery.
That's why I find this
Isn't really an option, the canonic reason the Scarlet Crusade is threatening the Forsaken is that they are extremely uncomfortably close to their capital and why the Crusade is able to mount operations across the Tristfall Glades.
There's an entire quest chain called "at war with the scarlet crusade" in Brill At War With The Scarlet Crusade
For more proof here's the spread of the scarlet crusade in classic wow as viable targets for a different quest, but also located in Brill
Look at that coverage apparently all being run out of the monastery.
Applying that to this should really imply that from touch down reaching the Scarlet Crusade really won't take long, especially if action efficiency has been nerfed into the ground as hard as it seems.
Also
How the hell does it take longer to learn a language when you are immersing yourself amongst native speakers and having to learn it?! You're essentially presenting the dichotomy of Grok being able to learn the language in three weeks to a speaking level from non native speakers, but it'll take two months for him to even learn the basics while in the situation where its supposed to be easiest to do so...
I'm sorry that just doesn't make any sense in the fucking least...
Finally from a narrative standpoint, tis still just unexpected. What I assumed was going on was that this was a Grok finding himself while doing some good in the world, making contacts beyond the horde and in general learning to be more than "Grok the disappointing clan heir/Grok the bad blade master/Grok the overconfident." Grok the exile was essentially meant to be as close to a clean slate as its possible for an orc to get and I was hoping to embrace that. Seemingly not.
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Finally caught up and it's certainly something. Is the rolls tsundere on you or what?
You had a cataclysmic battle and shortly after you're exiled but got 100 people interested in coming with you for more adventure. Given the politics it might be seen as a way to get the factions aligned against the war chief to go away and do something useful.
You had a cataclysmic battle and shortly after you're exiled but got 100 people interested in coming with you for more adventure. Given the politics it might be seen as a way to get the factions aligned against the war chief to go away and do something useful.
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- He/Him
His delusion? His good sense, from an external perspective.
Grok'mash just made a glorious speech in front of the whole Orgrimmar, he's relatively popular now. Clanless grunts would hear of Grok'mash going to join the Scarlet Crusade and see it as a worthy endeavour. How many Feldad would actually take on it's a different matter.
Me too. In hindsight this could have been a choice in the discussion with Neeru in the previous turn, but I don't mind having a warband (maybe smaller, like 50?). It's a military endeavour after all, not frolicking around in Troll country hunting shadowcats and meditating on the elements, nor guarding warehouses in the Merchant Coast and thinking about the intrigues going on around you.
We're going to fight a war, people. That's why I liked the Merchant Coast option *doggo face*
True, we can catch up with swordsmanship when we land. If it seriously takes 3-4 turns to learn the language "gradually", then having an intensive language course by Kartha seems a good idea.
So you wanted to go adventuring? Nah, that wouldn't work, it would be on a time limit, until we get an arrow in the knee. I'll see myself out
I am ok with the choice, there was worse (the Southern Barrens for more or the same, or Desolace for more Burning Blade stuff. Or not speaking up against Thrall and being embroiled in the fall of the Burning Blade)
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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He also nearly got Scorn himself killed, several times over and helped cause immense devastation to a massive area. Then got exiled.
Glorious speech be damned tieing oneself to that does not seem sensible either for one's aspirations of promotion or chances of survival in general.
And yes clanless grunts have heard, seemingly that's why we've gotten the foolhardy and criminal.
Indeed, and I expected to be a part of an army, not leading one and having to deal with all the BS that comes with that.
That its a war doesn't change that, what I thought was going to happen was opportunities to learn about the light, meet new people and so on, not get stuck trying to stop our force and the humans from killing one another!
I don't know where I might have gotten that impression from.
We've already gone through the experience of showing that Grok is absolute crap at that with the last warband. He lacks both the personality and the age to do so. Instead they're just going to sit around being a ticking time bomb or vacuuming up actions to keep them from being a ticking time bomb.
More bodies to sacrifice to survive against the undead horde hehe.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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I'm assuming this is a joke so I don't need to explain why that backfires...
It's a grim joke about leading and considering your first time I'm almost expecting the 100 followers to be decimated against the undead.
Leading inevitably sacrifices someone's life in a fight.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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I mean I'm expecting them to be decimated and then for Grok's sanity to take another nose dive as kills their reanimated corpses, who are all wheezing "whyyyyyy?" At him.
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I reckon the warband makes sense, they know the exile isn't going to be permanent and our little adventure is shaping up to be quite interesting.
He can ask others who lead or others who served under great leaders but still failed and lost bigly.
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- He/Him
Apart from the exile bit, for Orcs the first thing is just ordinary, and the second is glorious. Your point?^^
seconded
I want to see a warband dress up in white and blue robes wielding blades in an orderly fashion.
I remember going back his father was happy at what he did despite his perceived failures. Then when he put responsibility on himself he made himself popular to orcs who liked the cut of his jib.
I'm not sure of the future casualties. Orcs are of a society that prizes dying in the middle of a battle no? What happened with that duke was the stuff of legends and his exile too is part of the story.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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Permanent not necessarily, extremely long yes. Its also a massive gamble for feldad.
Again, a few tag alongs is one thing, but this is 100 people who have turned up unasked for (did Grok in anyway indicate that he wanted the responsibility of command so soon after the last bunch ended up dead?) and are going to suck up time and attention that could be spent on more interesting things, while causing problems unless we invest even more time into them.
No nearly dying vs a massive centaur army is not normal, and causing a mini cataclysm is not glorious.
Glory is in "defending" the horde, that's the part that ended up being glorious and Grok used that as logic to get himself exiled for doing so.
That's because of how he presented it, him doing what was necessary for the horde's survival, but crucially he also accepted he was at fault there.
We managed to use our honour to successfully argue ourselves into exile, what people like was that we were willing to do that not what we did.
Certainly some orcs like old Varrok do, but orcs also like to be remembered and would rather their bones not try to rip their friends and families heads off. There's for sure honour in coming to fight the scourge and it would be neat if we inspired people to come fight em, I just wish Grok wasn't considered to be in charge of them.
It certainly worked well enough to still have people following Grok. I can't say much about how much the fight was in favor of the centaurs and that undead orc blademaster.
You deal with what you get. You even had Scorn still tagging along when by all rights he could've found someone else to tag along with and not end up dead.
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You have a point
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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And it says something to look at who those people are.
That might have something to do with him still being a wanted criminal and tainted by association with Grok. I'm certain he probably would not be here if he had any choice in the matter, narratively informed by him passing his "hang around" roll by 1, but he doesn't really have a choice.
Grok may have achieved some notoriety, but he's also achieved infamy.
Also pologies will be occupied for quite some time now.
Could be. You have to interact with them and find out especially those survivors who chose to still stick around.
I'll just sum up my feelings aboutthe party size, starting with the fact that alot of the weirdness is due to the WoW universe. Most of our interaction with it is done via individual adventuring, but the world itself does turn via armies/large collections of adventurers.
I personally enjoy having more people "represented" because for two main reasons. One is that it makes more sense that a young heir going into exile, especially in a zombie horde zone. My Father does not have a whole clan of orcs under his command, but I would expect him to also try and ensure my safety however. The blade masters/hangers on are good for bodyguards, but we are looking to poke the jubithos shaped mystery box while we are out there too. So it makes sense to have mooks.
Secondly, at the very least it can remain generally hazy/assist in world building. Even just having them secure an area against undead for our necromancer friend to do research while we interact with humans with our vanguard/bodyguard would help give more safe areas/more chances to help humans/orcs mix peacefully/fight undead together.
I get the reasons why people dont want to deal with more numbers, and also understand the pain that logistics can be while writing. If we end up using BB resources to help level up purely in a "high powered adventurer bodyguard" fashion and not a ,"wave of mooks to help us clear up a dungeon for our own perusal" fashion.
And also @Doomed Wombat
I just woke up so sorry for not more precision quoting. I more meant scoping out the ground as in whoever is what in whatever area of the map we end up.
I know Brill/Capitol regions is theoretically still skirmishing between Scourge, Forsaken, and I think Humans under that racists G named dude from 3. Garithos? I think he ended up feeding into the Scarlets in canon timeline, so not sure about that.
More mean hang out and explore for a turn or two while learning, so that our first attack actions are against a Scourge Position and not a Forsaken one, etc. Or just to spend some actions learning human tongues during a few rounds of diplomatic introductions to whoever the local players are/their representatives in theatre.
I personally enjoy having more people "represented" because for two main reasons. One is that it makes more sense that a young heir going into exile, especially in a zombie horde zone. My Father does not have a whole clan of orcs under his command, but I would expect him to also try and ensure my safety however. The blade masters/hangers on are good for bodyguards, but we are looking to poke the jubithos shaped mystery box while we are out there too. So it makes sense to have mooks.
Secondly, at the very least it can remain generally hazy/assist in world building. Even just having them secure an area against undead for our necromancer friend to do research while we interact with humans with our vanguard/bodyguard would help give more safe areas/more chances to help humans/orcs mix peacefully/fight undead together.
I get the reasons why people dont want to deal with more numbers, and also understand the pain that logistics can be while writing. If we end up using BB resources to help level up purely in a "high powered adventurer bodyguard" fashion and not a ,"wave of mooks to help us clear up a dungeon for our own perusal" fashion.
And also @Doomed Wombat
I just woke up so sorry for not more precision quoting. I more meant scoping out the ground as in whoever is what in whatever area of the map we end up.
I know Brill/Capitol regions is theoretically still skirmishing between Scourge, Forsaken, and I think Humans under that racists G named dude from 3. Garithos? I think he ended up feeding into the Scarlets in canon timeline, so not sure about that.
More mean hang out and explore for a turn or two while learning, so that our first attack actions are against a Scourge Position and not a Forsaken one, etc. Or just to spend some actions learning human tongues during a few rounds of diplomatic introductions to whoever the local players are/their representatives in theatre.
Xilentxium
Existential Crisis Management
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I think Garithos got merked then eaten by ghouls in the Undead campaign of Frozen Throne